marijuana use and psychiatric evaluation

[Unlockable 7,314]

It's average visa journey to be honest. People usually call it like they see it

No it just shows how long they've been on the forums. When you read as many posts as we do asking for hope when there really isn't much or someone thinks the rules don't apply, you tend to get very jaded about every thread.

I have to agree. The more time you spend on VJ the more you develop a "direct" approach to situations like this.

The more seasoned members are the more more straight to the point they become. For example, notice most of Boiler's responses are one-liners.

I believe that no one should be denied the right to live where they want.

Please be careful with statements like this. It is very loaded.

[Pitaya 2,577]

~Several non-constructive and quoting non-constructive posts removed~

~Post constructively or DO NOT POST~

Pitaya

VJ Moderation

[JessDak 27]

Thank you for your positivity! And congrats on your approval.

It's still illegal in California and I know that the decision will be based on federal law anyway. I think my fiance thought the same as you, that it is legal where I live and so it wouldn't be a big deal. Unfortunately I didn't realize this was his thinking or I would have talked with him. It's confusing to people who aren't living here.

I still have hope that we will get lucky. I have heard of a few people getting approved after admitting to using drugs, although it is rare and their situations may have been different. But why give up hope before the interview right? Not really sure why so many people are eager to encourage me to.

He has absolutely no issue with drugs, he simply did it like people drink a glass of wine, he had no idea how serious it is to the embassy. He has already sworn it off for the rest of his life, it's definitely not worth it and he simply didn't think it was different than having a glass of wine. It has never affected him in a negative way, and he already would never have used it here. It was just his situation... he's going through this stressful process and he is not currently responsible for a child, so he thought he was making a perfectly normal (it's super normal where he lives) decision while with friends in a safe place. I hate that about this situation, that people are quick to think he has a drug issue when he definitely doesn't. I know people who do have issues with marijuana so I'm not saying it is always harmless, I just see it like alcohol, many people can drink moderately and lead very safe productive lives. But yes, before anyone jumps on me, I realize this does not matter in the eyes of the law.

Its most frustrating that people probably just lie and get away with it more often than not...and he tells the truth and will likely pay the consequences.

Thanks!

I know how you feel. In the Bahamas, marijuana is not legal, but it is a very common thing to do. Although I myself do not smoke it, more than half of the friends I've had since I was 16 have smoked it openly. I know people who are on the Bahamian Defense Force who smoke it, and although it is illegal, most people do not get charged unless they have huge quantities of it. So I definitely understand that to some people, it is exactly like having a glass of wine at the end of the day just to unwind and relax.

My issue was kind of the opposite. My fiancee and I are both female. And in the Bahamas, homosexuality is INCREDIBLY looked down upon, politicians in power openly speak about how 'transgender people should be put on a deserted island until they die out' (this was actually said in an interview by a politician in power less than a week ago). So I was terrified about this whole process. I would have to go to medical exams, and interviews in which people knew that I was gay. It was so nerve-wracking I was literally shaking before my interview at the embassy. But to my relief, everybody that I had to speak to was incredibly nice, I did not feel discriminated against even once. We stayed as positive as we could and in the end, it worked out for us. I know the situations between our case and your case are different, but I just thought hearing one success story might help your heart relax a bit.

I'm the type of person who likes to stay positive. I see it this way. If you are negative now, and things turn out well than you were unhappy for no reason. But if you are positive now, and things turn out badly, then at least you had some happiness leading up to the final decision.

I hope that everything works out fine for the two of you, whether he gets approved or denied, just always try to look on the bright side of things, even if it takes a little searching to find it!

[KayDeeCee 4,893]

Some stuff you have to take with a pinch of salt.

Seems others on this thread have come across such situations.

I have seen them, so I searched to find links for you. They did not admit to habitual, frequent, or even semi-frequent use. They did not admit to currently using either, but they are cases where they admitted use and were approved without any ban. >

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/485495-marijuana-use-and-stupidity/

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/469278-final-update-husband-admitted-to-marijuana-use-in-medical-exam-advice-and-experiences-please/

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/372619-visa-approved-today/

[jan22 3,056]

This is not meant to be a negative (or positive, for that matter) post -- just trying to explain a little bit about the process.

The primary decision on an ineligibility related to drug use/abuse is made by the panel physician's office and is supposed to be done in accordance with CDC guidance. The question is, in the medical personnel's opinion, is the person a drug abuser (i.e., basically, a recurrent user of an illegal substance or mis-user of a legal substance)? That's one of the reasons for the referral for a psychiatric evaluation. Once the medical personnel identify the applicant as a drug abuser, there is no discretion, no compassion, no disagreement available to the consular officer. The person must be found ineligible under 212(a)(1) and will need to prove with a series of random tests that they are no longer an abuser -- that's done by a denial that suspends processing on the case until the ineligibility is overcome when the requisite number of clean reports are done.

The consular officer cannot substitute their own judgment for the medical professionals. They cannot over-rule the medical report if it finds the individual is a drug abuser and they think he/she isn't and issue the visa. Nor can they say the doctors are wrong and find the person is a drug abuser and deny the visa if the doctors say they aren't. So, it really comes down to the medical evaluation and his interviews with them.

I know it's hard, but try not to worry too much until you know what the panel physician report says.

Edited May 7, 2016 by jan22

[LionessDeon 2,060]

This is not meant to be a negative (or positive, for that matter) post -- just trying to explain a little bit about the process.

The primary decision on an ineligibility related to drug use/abuse is made by the panel physician's office and is supposed to be done in accordance with CDC guidance. The question is, in the medical personnel's opinion, is the person a drug abuser (i.e., basically, a recurrent user of an illegal substance or mis-user of a legal substance)? That's one of the reasons for the referral for a psychiatric evaluation. Once the medical personnel identify the applicant as a drug abuser, there is no discretion, no compassion, no disagreement available to the consular officer. The person must be found ineligible under 212(a)(1) and will need to prove with a series of random tests that they are no longer an abuser -- that's done by a denial that suspends processing on the case until the ineligibility is overcome when the requisite number of clean reports are done.

The consular officer cannot substitute their own judgment for the medical professionals. They cannot over-rule the medical report if it finds the individual is a drug abuser and they think he/she isn't and issue the visa. Nor can they say the doctors are wrong and find the person is a drug abuser and deny the visa if the doctors say they aren't. So, it really comes down to the medical evaluation and his interviews with them.

I know it's hard, but try not to worry too much until you know what the panel physician report says.

Exactly what I said in my earlier post in this thread. The reason they send you to a psych appt is determine the level of abuser class A or Class B. Trying marijuana once vs frequent use. They ask you your entire history what age you started using, how often, when u stopped using, how much did you smoke when using, etc

The ban is then determined by your answers.

Also, your ceac status will show refused. once your ban is served you do not "reapply". The embassy will give you an eligibility date and you will then go back at that time for a new medical, update any needed forms, and have a second interview. My fiancé was never asked to do any drug testing during his ban. He did though at a private doctor, choosing to do so on his own to prove his continued non use.

Edited May 7, 2016 by LionessDeon

[Ktav 8]

Exactly what I said in my earlier post in this thread. The reason they send you to a psych appt is determine the level of abuser class A or Class B. Trying marijuana once vs frequent use. They ask you your entire history what age you started using, how often, when u stopped using, how much did you smoke when using, etc

The ban is then determined by your answers.

Also, your ceac status will show refused. once your ban is served you do not "reapply". The embassy will give you an eligibility date and you will then go back at that time for a new medical, update any needed forms, and have a second interview. My fiancé was never asked to do any drug testing during his ban. He did though at a private doctor, choosing to do so on his own to prove his continued non use.

Thank you both for your comments. I realize not everyone will give me "good news" and I appreciate this helpful information. I got defensive about when people write things that are condescending or when they just tell me to give up hope... I don't understand why people feel those comments are necessary when I'm obviously already feeling horrible, embarrassed, and stupid.... But I really appreciate this added information and especially when it is personal experience.

I know that it looks bad, for us, due to the fact that he has done it more than once. The absolute truth is that he doesn't care at all about Marijuana and never would have done it if he had ANY idea that it would be a problem. He was just naive. Anyways I know that doesn't matter now, but maybe, based on the fact that he very very rarely smokes, will most likely have a negative test, and has gone very long periods without using, the psychiatrist MAY deem him not a drug abuser. I have seen a few posts on here where this was the case. My hopes aren't that high, but I don't see the point of giving up now vs still looking for solutions until the interview which will be soon.

Lioness: Your husband received a ban? What were his circumstances?

Jan22: I was under the impression that the interviewing officer could still say no, even if the psychiatrist says he's ok, but you believe it is 100% dependent on whether or not the doctors check the drug user box? I have been telling my fiance to prepare for the psychiatrist and the interviewer to question him about this and that both have the ability to determine whether or not he needs the ban.

[NikLR 13,227]

Try not to take what people write on the internet so personally. If you really feel that the post was out of line, you can certainly report it. We have a strict policy on VJ about getting in the way of other people's enjoyment of the forums and website.

I have learned in life: sometimes a grain of salt is needed, sometimes you need s spice rack. Either way, spice is the variety of life, so use spices when it comes to other people.

[Ktav 8]

Try not to take what people write on the internet so personally. If you really feel that the post was out of line, you can certainly report it. We have a strict policy on VJ about getting in the way of other people's enjoyment of the forums and website.

I have learned in life: sometimes a grain of salt is needed, sometimes you need s spice rack. Either way, spice is the variety of life, so use spices when it comes to other people.

That's good to know about the policy. I understand letting things go, and I do, but I respond as well because I don't see why some people would say rude things just to be heard. I understand and have been the one thinking bad thoughts about someone else's ignorant behavior, but wouldn't comment something that is just meant to make them feel bad or give up...

I'm sure I'm over-explaining but I am not requesting that people don't comment with anything that I don't want to hear, just requesting that people are polite and offer new or useful information that is not just based on their opinion. And I think that suggesting that I give up all hope is out of line... Trust me I've already got a plan B in the works, but I'm gonna see this one out armed with as much information as I can.

[Ktav 8]

I have seen them, so I searched to find links for you. They did not admit to habitual, frequent, or even semi-frequent use. They did not admit to currently using either, but they are cases where they admitted use and were approved without any ban. >

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/485495-marijuana-use-and-stupidity/

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/469278-final-update-husband-admitted-to-marijuana-use-in-medical-exam-advice-and-experiences-please/

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/372619-visa-approved-today/

Thank you so much for this! One of them is kind of similar to mine, so it gives me a little hope! I think he will test negative since it has been over a month since his last use. He truly does not care about marihuana, just did it casually because he didn't think it was any different than a glass of wine. He's naive, he's young, but he's not a dangerous druggy. MAYBE the psychiatrist will see that.

I really appreciate you offering me a ray of hope in a constructive way! Thank you. And don't worry, I still realize our case is different.

[jan22 3,056]

. . .

Lioness: Your husband received a ban? What were his circumstances?

Jan22: I was under the impression that the interviewing officer could still say no, even if the psychiatrist says he's ok, but you believe it is 100% dependent on whether or not the doctors check the drug user box? I have been telling my fiance to prepare for the psychiatrist and the interviewer to question him about this and that both have the ability to determine whether or not he needs the ban.

Unless the panel physician finds that an applicant is a drug or alcohol abuser, that is correct -- the interviewing officer cannot deny the visa on medical grounds (212(a)(1)) for using drugs. The only way an applicant could be found ineligible because of marijuan use other than on medical grounds would be if he/she had a criminal conviction or the officer had sufficient "reason to believe" that the individual was a drug dealer...and I don't think either of those apply to your fiance! So, the most important thing for him is convincing the panel physician and psychiatrist.

[Ktav 8]

Unless the panel physician finds that an applicant is a drug or alcohol abuser, that is correct -- the interviewing officer cannot deny the visa on medical grounds (212(a)(1)) for using drugs. The only way an applicant could be found ineligible because of marijuan use other than on medical grounds would be if he/she had a criminal conviction or the officer had sufficient "reason to believe" that the individual was a drug dealer...and I don't think either of those apply to your fiance! So, the most important thing for him is convincing the panel physician and psychiatrist.

Wow, this is very encouraging information! My fiance also walked away from the medical thinking all he had to do was chat with the psych and show them that he doesn't have a problem, just casual use. He told me about it like it was just another step with nothing to worry about.

But being more aware of the way our government works, and after looking on VJ and the responses here, I have a much less positive outlook. He truly 100% does not have a drug problem, and definitely not a drug dealer or anything like that, he's peaceful, all natural, only ever even partakes if it was home-grown by a friend... I know these reasons do not justify the breaking the law part of it, but he absolutely does not have a problem.

I looked at the flowchart that (I think) you posted and it also appeared that he wouldn't qualify as dangerous at all, but there are so many stories of denial.

Either way, thank you for giving me a little more hope! If it doesn't work out, at least I have these moments of feeling a little better for now

[TBoneTX 45,304]

Three more posts have been removed because of bickering. The post below partially referred to the removed material; that portion has been edited out, with the balance returned to the thread as follows:

It's good to hear that your husband to be is willing not to smoke for immigration sake. There are many who do try to cheat the system and its good that he's not.

As has been stated, post constructively on the OP's topic, or don't post.

[dwheels76 5,468]

Thank you so much for this! One of them is kind of similar to mine, so it gives me a little hope! I think he will test negative since it has been over a month since his last use. He truly does not care about marihuana, just did it casually because he didn't think it was any different than a glass of wine. He's naive, he's young, but he's not a dangerous druggy. MAYBE the psychiatrist will see that.

I really appreciate you offering me a ray of hope in a constructive way! Thank you. And don't worry, I still realize our case is different.

Well Kathryn157 I just wanted to throw my Rainbow Brite look on all this.

I applaud your fiance'. Regardless what he did before he was honest. He could have easily lied I am sure but was up front about it.

I have known personally a a couple of men from Nigeria who were regular smokers were honest at medical and it was no issue.

I know many reading this can't believe he told. But I think he should be commended. And I am praying for you both the psych evaluation and interview is effortless.

[LionessDeon 2,060]

That's good to know about the policy. I understand letting things go, and I do, but I respond as well because I don't see why some people would say rude things just to be heard. I understand and have been the one thinking bad thoughts about someone else's ignorant behavior, but wouldn't comment something that is just meant to make them feel bad or give up...

I'm sure I'm over-explaining but I am not requesting that people don't comment with anything that I don't want to hear, just requesting that people are polite and offer new or useful information that is not just based on their opinion. And I think that suggesting that I give up all hope is out of line... Trust me I've already got a plan B in the works, but I'm gonna see this one out armed with as much information as I can.

I think NLR was right. I read all of the responses to your post and I didn't view any as rude or out of line. No one was trying to make you feel bad. They were just giving you the facts as they know it. Not one person here can tell you anything for sure. We are all giving you our educated opinions. Every single consulate and country is different. Every case within those consulates are different. Every IO is different. I have yet to see 2 exact same stories or backgrounds. Truth is you won't know until the day of interview. But people come to VJ to hear others opinions as to what may possibly happen.

As far as my fiancé's (we filed a K1) ganja history, he was a long time frequent user. At first I thought he failed the drug test and that's why he got a ban. But then found it was because of his past history. He was given a one year ban.

Needless to say I was devastated. Everyone told me to be calm the year would go fast. It certain did. I have visited 3 times since his ban and we are just fine...still living and breathing. Do we miss each other? Sure. Are we anxious for this separation to be over? Of course. Oddly, I believe we've become used to it. It's how we must live for now. I found alot of solace and help in VJ. There is great support here. Do we tend to be blunt and to the point ... Yeah but we also are very caring and compassionate too. Look up Natasha and Noor. This is a married couple who have been apart for 2 years in the black hole of AP, yet she is the most positive inspiring person! I frequently read her posts when I'm feeling down and lonely. I don't know what I would've done without VJ.