BYU students investigated by school after reporting rape

[Janelle2002 3,865]

BYU students investigated by school after reporting rape

Associated Press

HALLIE GOLDEN 1 hour 46 minutes ago

PROVO, Utah (AP) Madeline MacDonald says she was an 18-year-old freshman at Brigham Young University when she was sexually assaulted by a man she met on an online dating site.

She reported the crime to the school's Title IX office. That same day, she says, BYU's honor code office received a copy of the report, triggering an investigation into whether MacDonald had violated the Mormon school's strict code of behavior, which bans premarital sex and drinking, among other things.

Now MacDonald is among many students and others, including a Utah prosecutor, who are questioning BYU's practice of investigating accusers, saying it could discourage women from reporting sexual violence and hinder criminal cases.

Some have started an online petition drive calling on the university to give victims immunity from honor code violations committed in the lead-up to a sexual assault.

This week, BYU announced that in light of such concerns, the school will re-evaluate the practice and consider changes.

"I hope we have a system that people feel they can trust, particularly again the victims of sexual assault," BYU President Kevin Worthen said in a video released Wednesday. "And that we have one that creates an environment in which we minimize the number of sexual assaults on campus."

BYU would not say how many students who complained of sexual violence have been investigated by the honor code office or whether any of them have been punished.

In MacDonald's case, she said BYU eventually called to tell her she hadn't violated the code. But she said she was made to feel guilty by the university.

"For those two weeks, I wasn't sure if they were going to decide to kick me out or what they were going to do," she said. Two years later, no arrest has have been made in the assault case.

All BYU students must agree to abide by the honor code. Created by students in 1949, it prohibits such things as "sexual misconduct," ''obscene or indecent conduct or expressions" and "involvement with pornographic, erotic, indecent or offensive material." Violators can be expelled or otherwise punished.

Mary Koss, a public health professor at the University of Arizona who is an expert on sexual assault, questioned whether BYU is fulfilling its legal duty under federal Title IX to support victims of sexual violence.

"The students agreed to be governed by that honor code when they came there," she said. "But they cannot put things in their contract to students that are in violation of federal guidelines on civil rights."

Alana Kindness, executive director of the Utah Coalition Against Sexual Assault, warned: "The impact of that practice is that students at BYU who are sexually assaulted will not report that assault."

U.S. Education Department spokeswoman Dorie Nolt would not comment directly on BYU. But she said in an email that "schools should consider whether their disciplinary policies have a chilling effect on victims' or other students' reporting of sexual violence offenses."

Some U.S. colleges with codes of conduct have an immunity clause under which they investigate and punish only the perpetrator of the more severe offense.

On Wednesday, dozens of BYU students, alumni and others gathered at the campus entrance to present petition signatures to BYU's president. Many wore teal bands on their arms and mouths to signify sexual assault awareness and held signs that read "BYU: Protect victims, don't shame them."

"There is no honor in this archaic code," said protester Brooke Swallow-Fenton, who added that investigations of accusers have been going on for years at BYU.

The petition drive was started last week by Madi Barney, a 20-year-old BYU student who says that she, too, was sexually assaulted and now faces an honor code investigation.

Barney said that she was raped in her apartment last September by a man she met at a gym. A suspect was arrested and is awaiting trial. Barney said she has been informed by the university that until the honor code investigation has been completed, she cannot sign up for any more classes after this semester.

She has filed a Title IX sex-discrimination complaint against BYU with the Education Department's Office of Civil Rights.

The university would not comment on the case, citing federal privacy law. The Associated Press doesn't normally identify possible victims of sex crimes, but Barney said she wants her name to be used so she can help change the policy.

Craig Johnson, the Utah County prosecutor assigned to the case, said the criminal investigation is being hindered by BYU's insistence on determining if Barney broke school rules. He said his focus has been pulled away from the case because of worries Barney will move home to California and refuse to take part in hearings and interviews.

"How excited is she really going to be to come back to Utah where she was raped and her school kicked her out?" Johnson said.

However, Johnson's bosses in the Utah County Attorney's Office said in a statement that BYU has not harmed the case.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/byu-students-investigated-school-reporting-rape-154856150.html

ChrisSharia strikes!

[TBoneTX 45,267]

Common sense needs to take over here.

[Janelle2002 3,865]

Common sense needs to take over here.

But it won't. Apparently being raped violates christian and university policy.

[JayJayH 546]

While I have no problem with a private religious university objecting to premarital sex (no one is forced to go there), this is bordering Sharia.

Let's all agree that the left and the right have their own crazies to reign in.

[Merrytooth 5,748]

IF it is Sharia, the rape victim would have been put into jail immediately, whipped in the public, stoned to death, honor killing for bringing shame to the family.. etc.

[Janelle2002 3,865]

IF it is Sharia, the rape victim would have been put into jail immediately, whipped in the public, stoned to death, honor killing for bringing shame to the family.. etc.

So shaming the victim and kicking her out of school isn't bad because they didn't kill her?

[Merrytooth 5,748]

So shaming the victim and kicking her out of school isn't bad because they didn't kill her?

I only responded regarding the Sharia laws aspect.

Saw on local news before about rape victims in local University.

It seems like many Universities are very poor in handling rape issue in campus that victims are unwillingly to come forward.

[smilesammich 10,727]

It seems like many Universities are very poor in handling rape issue in campus that victims are unwillingly to come forward.

that's exactly why investigating victims for moral code violations is bad news, who wants to come forward if you're only going to be blamed for putting yourself in the 'situation' to be raped/assaulted in the first place.

[Janelle2002 3,865]

that's exactly why investigating victims for moral code violations is bad news, who wants to come forward if you're only going to be blamed for putting yourself in the 'situation' to be raped/assaulted in the first place.

Having sex is bad and shouldn't be done. Being raped is worse and the victim should be severely punished. Welcome to ChrisSharia

[smilesammich 10,727]

Having sex is bad and shouldn't be done. Being raped is worse and the victim should be severely punished. Welcome to ChrisSharia

why i value freedom from religion over freedom of religion (which one contains the other but some will argue freedom from religion is not guaranteed, illogically).

[JayJayH 546]

Having sex is bad and shouldn't be done. Being raped is worse and the victim should be severely punished. Welcome to ChrisSharia

While I agree entirely with the point you're making, I am failing to see how being expelled from a private university constitutes "severe punishment" when compared with Sharia.

It's a little like saying, yes, putting someone in prison for a year for shoplifting is "severe." But it does not belong in the same conversation as chopping their hands off.

Compared to Sharia, Biblical law is not a serious threat to the human rights situation in any country (perhaps except for Uganda).

Inshallah and and thank the Mormon God for that.

"Severe" is a relative term.

Edited April 21, 2016 by JayJayH

[Janelle2002 3,865]

While I agree entirely with the point you're making, I am failing to see how being expelled from a private university constitutes "severe punishment" when compared with Sharia.

It's a little like saying, yes, putting someone in prison for a year for shoplifting is "severe." But it does not belong in the same conversation as chopping their hands off.

Compared to Sharia, Biblical law is not a serious threat to the human rights situation in any country (perhaps except for Uganda).

Inshallah and and thank the Mormon God for that.

"Severe" is a relative term.

You're new.

I'm not comparing anything to sharia. ChrisSharia is a running joke in the CEHST section. I call it conservative ChrisSharia. People in the section like to talk about Islam while failing to speak on atrocities Christians commit, blowing up abortion clinics, limiting women's rights and proposing to murder gays

[Janelle2002 3,865]

Have you read the Bible? Killing non believers, keeping slaves, stoning women, eye for an eye, etc

[JayJayH 546]

You're new.

I'm not comparing anything to sharia. ChrisSharia is a running joke in the CEHST section. I call it conservative ChrisSharia. People in the section like to talk about Islam while failing to speak on atrocities Christians commit, blowing up abortion clinics, limiting women's rights and proposing to murder gays

I've been here for 5 years, but I haven't been in this section for a while. I agree that the right needs to do a better job of reigning in its own crazies. I would still contend that as a whole, mainstream Christianity is currently in 1970, whereas mainstream Islam is somewhere in 1770. There are plenty of sane, rational, secular Muslims, as there are plenty of sane, rational, secular Christians.

Alas, I would contend that fundamentalism is a lot more prevalent in Islam than it is in Christianity, in the same way that poverty is much more prevalent in India than it is in the US.

Of course we have dire poverty in the US - And it should be dealt with as such. But to solve the problem of poverty in general, there are far bigger problems than pockets in New Orleans and Detroit.

Have you read the Bible? Killing non believers, keeping slaves, stoning women, eye for an eye, etc

Yes. I threw out much of the Old Testament a long time ago. I'm a hypocritical Christian. I pray in private, cherry pick the parts of the Bible that I like and ignore or make excuses for the parts that I don't like. It works for me and seems to work for most of America's "mainstream Christians." I respect any Muslim who cherry picks the Quran to fit Western secularism, while throwing out the parts about stoning women and murdering infidels, hating on gays, fornication, making women wear certain outfits, rubbing religion in your face, etc.

I look forward to the day that mainstream Islam too, is cherry picked and becomes mostly a private matter.

The point with the statement above, and the analogy to poverty was to say that nowhere have I ever seen literal Biblical law applied as official policy - At least not for a century or three. Sharia law, by some interpretation or another, is the law of the land in nearly every Muslim-majority country. Don't get me wrong, there is a lot of beauty within Islamic culture. I've been to mosques in both Cairo and Tehran. Wonderful places, wonderful people. I don't want to see it eradicated or anything to that extent.

But I want to see the cancer that is Islamism dealt with in an honest fashion - Islamism is not just radical jihadism, but the Islamic orthodoxy that is spread through the world like a cancer by well-funded powers in Saudi Arabia, Iran and in the Gulf. It wasn't until the 1970s that Muslim women in many countries actually began covering up - The hijab today, is celebrated as the pinnacle of diversity by much of the left. Some will even go as far as calling it a symbol of feminism. What it really is, is religious orthodoxy. It's just politically incorrect to say that because hijab-wearing women are viewed as an oppressed minority, while calling Victorian dress-clad women are not viewed as an oppressed minority.

We sort of expect that churches and Christian-owned bakeries in rural Indiana should cater to same-sex couples. We don't expect the same out of mosques in Dearborn, MI. We laugh when some crazy sect in rural Utah only allows their adherents to marry only within their religion, but we sort of accept it as "their culture" when we talk of Muslim women being barred by their families from marrying non-Muslim men.

So while a crazy lone wolf lunatic shot some people at an abortion clinic in Colorado last year (and was called a domestic terrorist by Mike Huckabee), 170 American citizens traveled to Syria to fight for a barbaric self-proclaimed caliphate - Which actually keeps slaves.

So I tend to agree with the likes of Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Maajid Nawaz, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Salman Rushdie, Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchins, Dave Rubin etc, etc, in that we certainly have our crazies. But our crazies are not as crazy as their crazies. At least not on nearly the same scale. And this notion that all religions are equally bad on the same scale, is liberal bulls**t in the name of protecting people according to their rank on some invisible hierarchy of victimhood.

The day "Muslim fundamentalists" are picketing abortion clinics, "Islamic extremists" are protesting gay marriage, and "Jihadists" are fighting for Islam by opposing gender-neutral bathrooms - I'll find stories of that one crazy sect that did so and so, and refrain from insisting that there is a fundamental need for Islam as a whole to go through a large scale secular reformation.

Edited April 21, 2016 by JayJayH

[Janelle2002 3,865]

I've been here for 5 years, but I haven't been in this section for a while. I agree that the right needs to do a better job of reigning in its own crazies. I would still contend that as a whole, mainstream Christianity is currently in 1970, whereas mainstream Islam is somewhere in 1770. There are plenty of sane, rational, secular Muslims, as there are plenty of sane, rational, secular Christians.

Alas, I would contend that fundamentalism is a lot more prevalent in Islam than it is in Christianity, in the same way that poverty is much more prevalent in India than it is in the US.

Of course we have dire poverty in the US - And it should be dealt with as such. But to solve the problem of poverty in general, there are far bigger problems than pockets in New Orleans and Detroit.

Yes. I threw out much of the Old Testament a long time ago. I'm a hypocritical Christian. I pray in private, cherry pick the parts of the Bible that I like and ignore or make excuses for the parts that I don't like. It works for me and seems to work for most of America's "mainstream Christians." I respect any Muslim who cherry picks the Quran to fit Western secularism, while throwing out the parts about stoning women and murdering infidels, hating on gays, fornication, making women wear certain outfits, rubbing religion in your face, etc.

I look forward to the day that mainstream Islam too, is cherry picked and becomes mostly a private matter.

The point with the statement above, and the analogy to poverty was to say that nowhere have I ever seen literal Biblical law applied as official policy - At least not for a century or three. Sharia law, by some interpretation or another, is the law of the land in nearly every Muslim-majority country. Don't get me wrong, there is a lot of beauty within Islamic culture. I've been to mosques in both Cairo and Tehran. Wonderful places, wonderful people. I don't want to see it eradicated or anything to that extent.

But I want to see the cancer that is Islamism dealt with in an honest fashion - Islamism is not just radical jihadism, but the Islamic orthodoxy that is spread through the world like a cancer by well-funded powers in Saudi Arabia, Iran and in the Gulf. It wasn't until the 1970s that Muslim women in many countries actually began covering up - The hijab today, is celebrated as the pinnacle of diversity by much of the left. Some will even go as far as calling it a symbol of feminism. What it really is, is religious orthodoxy. It's just politically incorrect to say that because hijab-wearing women are viewed as an oppressed minority, while calling Victorian dress-clad women are not viewed as an oppressed minority.

We sort of expect that churches and Christian-owned bakeries in rural Indiana should cater to same-sex couples. We don't expect the same out of mosques in Dearborn, MI. We laugh when some crazy sect in rural Utah only allows their adherents to marry only within their religion, but we sort of accept it as "their culture" when we talk of Muslim women being barred by their families from marrying non-Muslim men.

So while a crazy lone wolf lunatic shot some people at an abortion clinic in Colorado last year (and was called a domestic terrorist by Mike Huckabee), 170 American citizens traveled to Syria to fight for a barbaric self-proclaimed caliphate - Which actually keeps slaves.

So I tend to agree with the likes of Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Maajid Nawaz, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Salman Rushdie, Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchins, Dave Rubin etc, etc, in that we certainly have our crazies. But our crazies are not as crazy as their crazies. At least not on nearly the same scale. And this notion that all religions are equally bad on the same scale, is liberal bulls**t in the name of protecting people according to their rank on some invisible hierarchy of victimhood.

The day "Muslim fundamentalists" are picketing abortion clinics, "Islamic extremists" are protesting gay marriage, and "Jihadists" are fighting for Islam by opposing gender-neutral bathrooms - I'll find stories of that one crazy sect that did so and so, and refrain from insisting that there is a fundamental need for Islam as a whole to go through a large scale secular reformation.

I'm busy, can't type too much. We have thousands of gun deaths a year by Christians. Tell you what, let someone shoot you while yelling allah, let someone shoot you while yelling Jesus and let someone shoot you while yelling nothing. Tell me which one hurt the worst.

Nuns cover themselves... because of religion. Have you seen the Amish?

What about sex and human trafficking in u.s. prevalent for women and children? How about the amount of women being killed by their husbands. Good thing we have separation of church and state that's the biggest difference I see

Edited April 22, 2016 by Janelle2002