Immigration Marriage Fraud Amendments of 1986

[yahoo_surfer 0]

Caladan,

Fraud do exist. Some people are just blinded to see that they're victims of fraud. And, they decided enough is enough time to get revenge. However, for those who read the signs of fraud and follow directions, they are suffering the most from this because they are the ones who found someone important to them and have to go through tough restrictions.

For those who cannot see fraud happening to them, they went to ask the government for help. I find that really immature.

thats true i feel consolemaster i am not applying for anything right now

but those who are marrying citizens and if citizens cant judge before and later they complain isnt right

it isnt right to complain any yhird world country or so also

my husband is from russia he is staying with me in third world country because i have got unlimited resources here

also i would like to add that if third world country was so bad then why liz hurley would come and marry in third world country if u guys say is for money then i would rather say that even the developed countries need money frm third world country

i am sorrry i am not political or racist in anyway

but complaing this way against any country isnt good enough

there have be fraud marriages all over the world so if fraud should be mentioned it should be for all those frauds thru out the world not specifically 3rd world country

i am sorry caladan if i mentioned something unintentionallly .

[Portlander 0]

If you have nothing to hide, the wheels of justice will have no adverse effect on you.

Thats a touch idealistic, doncha think! Laws get misused and abused all the time. For example, BushCo allows thousands and thousands of abuses of the Patriot Act. Those are just the ones we know about! In addition, a lot of laws have widespead effects beyond their target. We all have to wait a lot longer for our spouses to get visas now. Then, there are the times when innocent people get fined, put in jail, etc etc. The system is not perfect.

[rebeccajo 14]

If you have nothing to hide, the wheels of justice will have no adverse effect on you.

Thats a touch idealistic, doncha think! Laws get misused and abused all the time. For example, BushCo allows thousands and thousands of abuses of the Patriot Act. Those are just the ones we know about! In addition, a lot of laws have widespead effects beyond their target. We all have to wait a lot longer for our spouses to get visas now. Then, there are the times when innocent people get fined, put in jail, etc etc. The system is not perfect.

"The wheels of justice grind slow, but they grind fine"

That is the saying from where my comment comes from. Referring to the fact that it does take time for visas to be issued, but if your relationship is true, you should come out 'victorious'.

Of course the system is not perfect. But what would you have then? A system where the citizens have no voice in the creation of laws? I believe THAT was the original intent of the thread - not the Patriot Act.

[Niels Bohr 72]

"If you have nothing to hide, the wheels of justice will have no adverse effect on you."

Whoever brought this up has no experience of waiting. Is what you call " waiting " an adverse effect?

[yahoo_surfer 0]

If you have nothing to hide, the wheels of justice will have no adverse effect on you.

Thats a touch idealistic, doncha think! Laws get misused and abused all the time. For example, BushCo allows thousands and thousands of abuses of the Patriot Act. Those are just the ones we know about! In addition, a lot of laws have widespead effects beyond their target. We all have to wait a lot longer for our spouses to get visas now. Then, there are the times when innocent people get fined, put in jail, etc etc. The system is not perfect.

"The wheels of justice grind slow, but they grind fine"

That is the saying from where my comment comes from. Referring to the fact that it does take time for visas to be issued, but if your relationship is true, you should come out 'victorious'.

Of course the system is not perfect. But what would you have then? A system where the citizens have no voice in the creation of laws? I believe THAT was the original intent of the thread - not the Patriot Act.

well i totally respect your feelings to secure united states but

if citizens really had the feeling of securing countrys right rather than complaining they should do something creative

like if they want to complain they should tell why they were cheated and was it the entire fault of benefieciary no fault of the citizens at all

there are fraud cases for spouse visas for work permit and temporary visas too

but then why arent they made to wait so long ? why only the spouses of citizens

just because they are citizens

dont they have a heart

if its made to wait so much what if the citizens statr making extra affairs in the absence of their legitimate spouses

thats also a very big possibility

what is the meaning of marriage when spouses are kept apart ?

if they should be kept apart then it should be for all visas categories not only citizens

i am not saying waiting is bad or shouldnt be allowed

i am saying that why only the citizens

and there are really legitimate and genuine marriages

those marriages should be judged - like the uscis should see what marriage certificate is it ? is it of mandatory govt, agency or just a small unknown marriage certif and other things like brother sisters marrying etc - the age difference -

these things should be judged before hand and in genuine cases they should be processed faster

there isnt any meaning to keep spouses waiting unnecessarily ?

after all what is the definition of marriage ? to keep the spouses apart for long time - ?????

[yahoo_surfer 0]

If you have nothing to hide, the wheels of justice will have no adverse effect on you.

Thats a touch idealistic, doncha think! Laws get misused and abused all the time. For example, BushCo allows thousands and thousands of abuses of the Patriot Act. Those are just the ones we know about! In addition, a lot of laws have widespead effects beyond their target. We all have to wait a lot longer for our spouses to get visas now. Then, there are the times when innocent people get fined, put in jail, etc etc. The system is not perfect.

thats what i feel

it is ridiculous to keep spouses apart

my elder daughter had married a citizen she was made to wait aarox. 8 months or so in the meantime my son-in-law

started making extra affairs and all the scene became really bad until she got approval and finally she reached there and settled the matter

now she herself on the verge of getting her citizenship and let me tell you her marriage is very successful

her marriage would have got null and void if a month more she had waited

i dont understand the meaning of marriage if the spouses have to wait like this .. its so troublesome

[Boiler 45,898]

If you have nothing to hide, the wheels of justice will have no adverse effect on you.

Thats a touch idealistic, doncha think! Laws get misused and abused all the time. For example, BushCo allows thousands and thousands of abuses of the Patriot Act. Those are just the ones we know about! In addition, a lot of laws have widespead effects beyond their target. We all have to wait a lot longer for our spouses to get visas now. Then, there are the times when innocent people get fined, put in jail, etc etc. The system is not perfect.

thats what i feel

it is ridiculous to keep spouses apart

my elder daughter had married a citizen she was made to wait aarox. 8 months or so in the meantime my son-in-law

started making extra affairs and all the scene became really bad until she got approval and finally she reached there and settled the matter

now she herself on the verge of getting her citizenship and let me tell you her marriage is very successful

her marriage would have got null and void if a month more she had waited

i dont understand the meaning of marriage if the spouses have to wait like this .. its so troublesome

Lucky girl

Sounds like she got a real catch

[Dr_LHA 3]

Lucky girl

Sounds like she got a real catch

Well she got her citizenship didn't she? Sounds like the goal was acheived.

[Yodrak 7]

consolemaster,

Same way we got IMBRA, just the reverse situation and 20 years later. Enough people get screwed and the government moves to protect potential future screwees from the likely scewers.

Seemingly "legit paperwork" does not necessarily mean a genuine marriage. For people who want to get into the USA by whatever means possible, marriage to a US citizen for a couple of years is probably the easiest and a fairly painless way to do it. Any one can make the necessary phone calls, write the necessary letters, and profess undying love until the Green Card gives them the freedom to dissolve their marriage bonds, their goal accomplished, perhaps with a little alimony as a bonus for their efforts. And an I-864 to fall back on should it become necessary.

Yodrak

I came about this <a href="http://"http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?act=post&do=new_post&f=116"" target="_blank">link</a> regarding to marriage fraud for the sole purpose of obtaining a Permanent Residence. It states that the Law was the consequence of numerous testimonies from citizens whose spouse left them after obtaining permanent residence status!

This is the reason why it's hard for us to get VISAs for our SO. I don't like it at all. Those citizens who have their spouses left them went and tell Congress so that the next generations won't suffer the same fate. Geezes.

Some people here on this forum who filed legit evidence to show immigration officials that their marriage is genuine gets denied cold in the face because of this law. Why deny those with legit paperworks? This is unacceptable!

Edited March 20, 2007 by Yodrak

[rebeccajo 14]

"If you have nothing to hide, the wheels of justice will have no adverse effect on you."

Whoever brought this up has no experience of waiting. Is what you call " waiting " an adverse effect?

Consolemaster, the 'whoever' you are referring to is me.

I don't consider waiting an 'adverse affect'. I feel it's trying, lonely and sometimes painful.

But it is not adverse. Unless you allow it to be.

I'm nearly 50 years old and I've been through plenty of 'waiting' in my lifetime. It took me 46 years just to find the man worth waiting for. Are you going to continue to bellyache and whine about your wait, or are you going to tough it up and see the prize at the end of the rainbow?

[Geist 0]

"If you have nothing to hide, the wheels of justice will have no adverse effect on you."

I hate this quote. I really really hate it. Because it implies that if you are innocent of something, then you shouldn't mind being suspected of being guilty of it because since you're innocent, you won't end up in prison or in suffering. The wheels of justice are not perfect, and nor are the bureaucracies we're dealing with. This is because they are run by humans. They are prone to error.

To just sit there and say that as long as your relationship is real, you have nothing to fear, means nothing. If the bureaucrat is unconvenced that it is real, or your name gets stopped up in the background check process just because it's similar to someone else's name who is a criminal, a child molester, a spouse abuser or a terrorist, is really going to screw you over.

So what are you going to do, just sit there because you're innocent and everything should turn out right in the end?

[Niels Bohr 72]

rebbeccajo,

Sorry, if that is your statement. I know where you may be coming from. However, I do know if you were my age and had to suffer the consequence of the law you would be probably thinking like me. Because you experienced all the waiting, it makes you think it's okay to wait. But, for many of us we do not like to wait, just as you when you were younger.

The point I would like to make is that it's not trying to influence the new generation that they should wait, but to make their lives better. Just as if you have kids, you want their lives to be better than yours. How can you be jealous of your kids? You don't have to respond.

I'm not taking for granted that the new generations be better than the older generation. I'm thinking about the future of expansion, and being more civil.

Edited March 25, 2007 by consolemaster

[rebeccajo 14]

"If you have nothing to hide, the wheels of justice will have no adverse effect on you."

I hate this quote. I really really hate it. Because it implies that if you are innocent of something, then you shouldn't mind being suspected of being guilty of it because since you're innocent, you won't end up in prison or in suffering. The wheels of justice are not perfect, and nor are the bureaucracies we're dealing with. This is because they are run by humans. They are prone to error.

To just sit there and say that as long as your relationship is real, you have nothing to fear, means nothing. If the bureaucrat is unconvenced that it is real, or your name gets stopped up in the background check process just because it's similar to someone else's name who is a criminal, a child molester, a spouse abuser or a terrorist, is really going to screw you over.

So what are you going to do, just sit there because you're innocent and everything should turn out right in the end?

Of course not.

I find your opening paragraph very contradictory. Human error? Who else makes laws and runs bureaucracies but humans? Who else runs nations but men?

The only thing I can guess is that you are saying - in a perfect world we should be able to freely bring our loved ones across borders without any question. Unfortunately, that ain't gonna happen - it has never been that way and it is NEVER gonna be that way. Over the course of human history, men make laws and those laws are written based upon the concept of nations.

Do I think the US immigration system is perfect? HELL NO. Far from it. If you look at my timeline you will see why. Am I concerned about my husband's namecheck process? Yes - very. Am I concerned his identity could be 'mixed up' with someone else? In my darkest moments - yes.

But I am convinced that I would rather be a citizen of a nation where I have a VOICE. And that was the original point of this thread. The complaint - I believe - is that because citizens testified before Congress regarding marriage fraud, our nation wrote laws. How can it be a bad thing that our government allowed that testimony?

This year immigration law will change - drastically. The bills are in the House and Senate as we speak. There will be Congressional testimony. I am part of a group lobbying for legislation and I am willing to go to the Hill and tell our story if necessary.

What are you doing about immigration? Sitting here on this forum and complaining - telling me I am doing nothing?

That's patently wrong.

[rebeccajo 14]

rebbeccajo,

Sorry, if that is your statement. I know where you may be coming from. However, I do know if you were my age and had to suffer the consequence of the law you would be probably thinking like me. Because you experienced all the waiting, it makes you think it's okay to wait. But, for many of us we do not like to wait, just as you when you were younger.

The point I would like to make is that it's not trying to influence the new generation that they should wait, but to make their lives better. Just as if you have kids, you want their lives to be better than yours. How can you be jealous of your kids? You don't have to respond.

I'm not taking for granted that the new generations be better than the older generation. I'm thinking about the future of expansion, and being more civil.

consolemaster, I am glad you came back to this thread. I have read many of your posts and I realize you have experienced a lot in your lifetime. So - I don't want you to think I am dismissing what you have to say because of your youth. In fact, I'm not dismissing you at all. I just think you are unrealistic.

My only point, when I came to this thread, is that I don't regard congressional testimony by citizens to be a bad thing. I would rather belong to a nation that allows this. Does such a thing sometimes cause 'difficulties' - in this case - a higher burden of proof on those of us in the system. Yes it does. It's frustrating yes, but unfortunately our lawmakers saw it to be necessary.

Let me also add this. My experience in this community tells me that marriage fraud issues are treated by consulates differently nation to nation. Why is that? Because statistics bear out where the majority of fraud cases originate from.

It's well known in this community which consulates give a 'hard time' to their visa beneficiaries and which ones do not. That is done based upon evidence of beneficiaries looking for a way out of that country by whatever means possible and has nothing to do with 'congressional testimony'.

If your loved one is from one of those nations, the onus is on you to make sure you are not being taken advantage of by a predator. Consulate officials in those countries are going to attempt to make certain - should you be blinded by love or perhaps completely naive - that you have done your homework.

If you had been a member here as long as I have, this bitter pill might be easier for you to swallow. I have seen MANY stories here of people who's hearts have been broken by a foreign spouse who used them as a free ticket. I've seen posts of members that from DAY ONE clearly screamed marriage fraud, but the member was completely blind to it.

Thus my comment regarding the wheels of justice. Yes, those of us in legitimate relationships have to wait a bit longer for our loved one to come to us. But if your relationship is true, and you have compiled your paperwork properly, you should prevail.

Do I want the system improved? Yes I do. Will I continue to work to see that it does improve? Yes I will. The only way I can do that is to make my voice as a citizen heard.

If you don't like the system, I suggest you do the same. But I suggest you do it with your eyes wide open, rather than from the pain and loneliness of your present separation. Look around this community and you will clearly see why marriage fraud laws were written.

[Geist 0]

I find your opening paragraph very contradictory. Human error? Who else makes laws and runs bureaucracies but humans? Who else runs nations but men?

The only thing I can guess is that you are saying - in a perfect world we should be able to freely bring our loved ones across borders without any question. Unfortunately, that ain't gonna happen - it has never been that way and it is NEVER gonna be that way.

Actually it has been that way before. Did you know people didn't even need passports to travel until world war one (unless they lived in say, Tsarist Russia)? Did you know that up until the 1930s, coming to the US permanently was as easy as getting on a boat? If you had enough money, you didn't even have to go through Ellis Island. You became a citizen. Unless of course you were Chinese, in which case, the US didn't want you. Even up to 10 years ago, it was much easier to bring in a spouse. The idea that it should be made harder just because it's "this day and age" and because of "the terrorists" is ridiculous. None of the terrorists were here on spousal visas. Heck, it's a good thing the native Americans didn't have a version of the USCIS, or else the pilgrams would have been sent home.

But I am convinced that I would rather be a citizen of a nation where I have a VOICE. And that was the original point of this thread. The complaint - I believe - is that because citizens testified before Congress regarding marriage fraud, our nation wrote laws. How can it be a bad thing that our government allowed that testimony?

Oh trust me, I'm not saying it's a bad thing. I've testified in front of state legislature committees. It's a very GOOD thing. The bad thing comes in when laws are passed that our legislators don't even read, or even stop to consider what effect these laws might have. Read the second quote in my signature from Robert Heinlein: The only sin lies in hurting others unnecessarily. All other sins are invented nonsense. I believe this is extremely true and that our government is hurting us unnecessarily.

This year immigration law will change - drastically. The bills are in the House and Senate as we speak. There will be Congressional testimony. I am part of a group lobbying for legislation and I am willing to go to the Hill and tell our story if necessary.

What bills are these? Could you send me links to the text of them? I would be very interested in reading them. And what group are you apart of?

What are you doing about immigration? Sitting here on this forum and complaining - telling me I am doing nothing?

I'm writing my senators and representatives, for one thing. Letting them know how bad the situation has gotten. I'm also raising awareness among general Americans since immigration is an issue most tend to ignore because it doesn't affect them. I was the same way until this whole thing cropped up. Not any longer. If more people knew how bad it was, the less likely they would tend to hate illegal immigrants for "breaking our laws." Sorry, but if it were easier to get a visa, we wouldn't have so many people "breaking our laws."

And I wasn't telling you specifically you were doing nothing---I was addressing the larger VJ community as a whole. So many people on these boards seem to take the attitude that they have rights simply because the government gives them to them. Sorry, that's not the case. Even if we didn't have a first ammendment guaranteeing freedom of speech, religion, etc. we would STILL have those freedoms because we are human beings. It is our right, simply because we exist.

Nothing pisses me off more than people who just shrug their shoulders and say "what can I do? The government passes the laws and I just follow them." Sorry, that's a sign along the roadway in North Korea, not an attitude for people living in a democracy.