The DREAM ACt of 2007

[mawilson 2,133]

Spanish signs are not going to disappear. They're going to multiply.

Just as Spanish-speaking people are. (And at a faster rate than "native" Americans.) By 2038 there will be more native Spanish-speaking people in the U.S. than native English-speaking people.

So, if you don't speak Spanish.... LEARN! Or, start reproducing at a faster rate!

You're assuming that children born in America to Spanish-speaking immigrants

will shun English in favor of Spanish when in fact it's not true.

[Ban Hammer 13,346]

ATTENTION EVERYONE:

We're still PAYING lazy Americans to live in free homes, eat free food, and go to college.

Why are we even talking about illegal immigrants who are trying to better themselves? Are you really so scared they're going to take your job? If so.... go back to school yourself! America is a place where the better qualified person gets the job. Or, the place where the person who is willing to do the job for less money GETS THE JOB. That's called capitalism. If you're not into working harder for less money.... go get one of those free houses.

yet those lazy americans are still americans and have a lawful right to be here, eh?

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Why are we even talking about illegal immigrants who are trying to better themselves?

Well duh, because they are ILLEGAL !!! Nobody here as far as I've seen is against LEGAL immigration. So if they want so badly to get here to better their lives they can damn well wait in line behind the PEOPLE WHO ARE OBEYING THE LAWS AND DOING SO LEGALLY.

What about ILLEGAL do some folks not get?

[slim 1,525]

ATTENTION EVERYONE:

We're still PAYING lazy Americans to live in free homes, eat free food, and go to college.

Why are we even talking about illegal immigrants who are trying to better themselves? Are you really so scared they're going to take your job? If so.... go back to school yourself! America is a place where the better qualified person gets the job. Or, the place where the person who is willing to do the job for less money GETS THE JOB. That's called capitalism. If you're not into working harder for less money.... go get one of those free houses.

yet those lazy americans are still americans and have a lawful right to be here, eh?

That's the part that needs to change!

And as far as children of Spanish-speaking people not speaking Spanish.... they'll speak more Spanish once Spanish is the "official" language of their area. They're very integrated right now, but once the ESL budgets start transitioning to SSL budgets for the children of the remaining English-speakers, the preferred language will naturally shift back to Spanish.

[Ban Hammer 13,346]

ATTENTION EVERYONE:

We're still PAYING lazy Americans to live in free homes, eat free food, and go to college.

Why are we even talking about illegal immigrants who are trying to better themselves? Are you really so scared they're going to take your job? If so.... go back to school yourself! America is a place where the better qualified person gets the job. Or, the place where the person who is willing to do the job for less money GETS THE JOB. That's called capitalism. If you're not into working harder for less money.... go get one of those free houses.

yet those lazy americans are still americans and have a lawful right to be here, eh?

That's the part that needs to change!

And as far as children of Spanish-speaking people not speaking Spanish.... they'll speak more Spanish once Spanish is the "official" language of their area. They're very integrated right now, but once the ESL budgets start transitioning to SSL budgets for the children of the remaining English-speakers, the preferred language will naturally shift back to Spanish.

so we should do what with the lazy americans? deport them to mexico?

[Boiler 45,527]

There may be a reason for a lack of confidence. Suddenly, Spanish seems to have become an unnofficial second language of the US. None of those other immigrant waves succeeded in that. You don't see signs in English/Swedish appearing all over the country. It's only been in the last 15-20 years that such dual-language signing has become almost a necessity.

But I think the author's point was that there *were* signs in Swedish and other languages around

the country at some point; yet, they eventually disappeared as new generations of immigrants had

no use for them anymore.

North Dakota maybe.

Could still be there.

[mawilson 2,133]

And as far as children of Spanish-speaking people not speaking Spanish.... they'll speak more Spanish once Spanish is the "official" language of their area. They're very integrated right now, but once the ESL budgets start transitioning to SSL budgets for the children of the remaining English-speakers, the preferred language will naturally shift back to Spanish.

Sorry, I just don't see it happening. They can speak Spanish in their ethnic enclaves and ghettos,

but that's about as far as it goes. You can't succeed in this country if you don't speak English.

You can't become a CEO of a corporation or run for Congress. The best schools in this country

use English as the language of instruction.

You mentioned the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. Guess what language it's written in.

[Alex+R 0]

There may be a reason for a lack of confidence. Suddenly, Spanish seems to have become an unnofficial second language of the US. None of those other immigrant waves succeeded in that. You don't see signs in English/Swedish appearing all over the country. It's only been in the last 15-20 years that such dual-language signing has become almost a necessity.

But I think the author's point was that there *were* signs in Swedish and other languages around

the country at some point; yet, they eventually disappeared as new generations of immigrants had

no use for them anymore.

North Dakota maybe.

Could still be there.

Minnesota! C'mon, we're the home of Swedish immigration! My great grandparents only spoke Norwegian and Swedish. Their kids learned English fine at school.

I think if we keep schools in English, there is no problem. But students should NOT be able to graduate without English, IMO. Most important skill for their success in America.

eta: I have no idea what we're talking about. I just like Minnesota.

Edited March 23, 2007 by Alex+R

[Boiler 45,527]

And as far as children of Spanish-speaking people not speaking Spanish.... they'll speak more Spanish once Spanish is the "official" language of their area. They're very integrated right now, but once the ESL budgets start transitioning to SSL budgets for the children of the remaining English-speakers, the preferred language will naturally shift back to Spanish.

Sorry, I just don't see it happening. They can speak Spanish in their ethnic enclaves and ghettos,

but that's about as far as it goes. You can't succeed in this country if you don't speak English.

You can't become a CEO of a corporation or run for Congress. The best schools in this country

use English as the language of instruction.

You mentioned the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. Guess what language it's written in.

In some areas it is English that is restricted to ethnic enclaves.

There are lots of low level jobs where English helps but Spanish is required. Even in Government.

There was a woman on the radio this morning, her son went to apply for a job in a fast food place, they only had application forms in Spanish.

[slim 1,525]

And as far as children of Spanish-speaking people not speaking Spanish.... they'll speak more Spanish once Spanish is the "official" language of their area. They're very integrated right now, but once the ESL budgets start transitioning to SSL budgets for the children of the remaining English-speakers, the preferred language will naturally shift back to Spanish.

Sorry, I just don't see it happening. They can speak Spanish in their ethnic enclaves and ghettos,

but that's about as far as it goes. You can't succeed in this country if you don't speak English.

You can't become a CEO of a corporation or run for Congress. The best schools in this country

use English as the language of instruction.

You mentioned the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. Guess what language it's written in.

In some areas it is English that is restricted to ethnic enclaves.

There are lots of low level jobs where English helps but Spanish is required. Even in Government.

There was a woman on the radio this morning, her son went to apply for a job in a fast food place, they only had application forms in Spanish.

Exactly my point.

Once Spanish reaches a level of popularity that outpaces English, it will be far beyond ethnic enclaves and ghettos. It will be in the government, CEOs will be required to learn it, and even the U.S. Constitution will be bilingual. Why do you think all the govt. websites are already in Spanish?

IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN!

[Ban Hammer 13,346]

Once Spanish reaches a level of popularity that outpaces English, it will be far beyond ethnic enclaves and ghettos. It will be in the government, CEOs will be required to learn it, and even the U.S. Constitution will be bilingual. Why do you think all the govt. websites are already in Spanish?

IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN!

on this, i am afraid you just might be right.

[Caladan 19]

I'm not worried, even with the higher birth rate (are we really reduced to worrying that good white Americans will be outbred, as if this were a dog show?), and even with the ability to live in some areas without knowing English. There have been, and are, plenty of ethnic enclaves in cities where signs are all in another language, and the old people never bothered to learn English, and some of their kids didn't. And what happens in those cases is that the kids who didn't learn English end up stuck in the ghetto or one similar to it, and the ones that learn English move out and up.

Plus, there are a lot of immigrants who *do* learn English. It's not always their primary home language, but they seem to own enough businesses around here and run them in English. English is still the language of the successful class, and the U.S. is a highly mobile society. If you want to take advantage of that, you'll have to learn English even if your neighborhood gets by just fine with Spanish.

All of these arguments have been made before. Read up on some of the Irish immigration: damn Catholics have so many kids, we'll be overrun with dirty drunken fighters! And in a way, the U.S. was overrun. The Irish got into the police forces, politics, government, the FBI, even made their own universities, supported an Irish-American Catholic president....

But we're not speaking Irish Gaelic. We have what, seven million illegals? On top of a country of 300 million? We're resilient enough to handle it; proportionally, there were more Irish. Odds are, like the past, the most that comes out of this is that my kids will use some Spanish slang and develop a taste for authentic tortillas and know that the hott parties are on Cinco de Mayo.

[Ban Hammer 13,346]

I'm not worried, even with the higher birth rate (are we really reduced to worrying that good white Americans will be outbred, as if this were a dog show?),

everyone start barking

But we're not speaking Irish Gaelic. We have what, seven million illegals? On top of a country of 300 million?

the Census Bureau estimates 8-9 million are illegal immigrants. link

The Center for Immigration Studies estimated the illegal alien population at 10 million as of November 2004. FAIR estimates the illegal alien population to be from 11 to 13 million as of 2005. The Pew Hispanic Center estimates the 2005 population of illegal aliens at 12 million. link

note those estimates are now up to 2 years old. how far past those numbers are we now?

[mawilson 2,133]

In some areas it is English that is restricted to ethnic enclaves.

There are lots of low level jobs where English helps but Spanish is required. Even in Government.

There was a woman on the radio this morning, her son went to apply for a job in a fast food place, they only had application forms in Spanish.

Emphasis on "low level".

[mawilson 2,133]

And what happens in those cases is that the kids who didn't learn English end up stuck in the ghetto

or one similar to it, and the ones that learn English move out and up.

...

English is still the language of the successful class

Exactly!