In theory......

[SteveUK_BreezyUS 0]

My question was a theoretical one, as stated in the topic.

And i apologise for causing an argument!!!!

[Buxton babe 0]

My question was a theoretical one, as stated in the topic.

And i apologise for causing an argument!!!!

AHA!!!!! A disclaimer

[TimsDaisy 0]

My question was a theoretical one, as stated in the topic.

And i apologise for causing an argument!!!!

AHA!!!!! A disclaimer

Hypotheticals are a totally reasonable learning tool. And this place is about questions and answers - so I say, ask 'em all!

[MichelleandCraig 1]

TimsDaisy...it's good that YOU have no problem with it..practially or morally..but this person asked what are the pros and cons. In short, my list? Pros...NONE in this particular case and CONS...only one that matters. You would, yes, indeed be breaking the law by committing fraud. You might be ok with him breaking the law...but I doubt the USCIS will be if they find out. If he had been here on a visit and thought...hey...I wanna get married...well, ok..whatever. Take your chances....no intent. (I feel like I'm going in a circle here since this has been mentioned SO many times already....) since this person has intent to immigrate, there really is no "theoretical"about itand we all realize that a question "Can I do this and get away with it" basically...is being asked here(not..I'm gonna..but...can I?)...so the short answer is yes, you can do it, crapshoot if you get away with it or not. Most people don't want to risk their relationships on a crapshoot is all.

It would be premeditated **in this particular instance**, therefore it would be ILLEGAL. It doesn't matter one whit if any of us are "cool" with it or not..it's illegal!

Not picking at you, btw...at least not meaning to....but this kind of answer is always going to get the response of...only if you wanna risk it! Most people don't have any problem...but in this case, they could hardly answer honestly and have it work (did you intend to immigrate, etc.) so it all comes down to morals/ethics in the end I guess. M.

Edited March 16, 2007 by MichelleandCraig

[mmb 0]

Tim,

One complication of the hypothetical scenario you describe is the number of times you have visited your fiancee in the past. An immigration lawyer I met here suggested to us that if we married on the spur of the moment it would be difficult to prove I didn't have immigration intent as I had four visits to my fiance over the two previous years.

He siad it would probable be reasonably simple to adjust status if we had married on the first or second visit, but after that it would get more and more difficult.

Maggie

[Dan+Nikki 0]

I'm saying you should be prepared to answer those questions which could be asked. Do I think it is a problem - either practically or morally - no, not in the slightest. I'm fine with it. But again, whatever I'm fine with isn't something anyone should base a decision on.

I dont have a problem with it either. If the OP wants to give it a go knowing that there may be a chance of a problem in the future, that is his choice.

Dont even get me started on "Big Brother"

The real issue here is how sad it is that people are forced to consider ways to trick the system. Why should it take up to a year to bring a US citizens fiance' or Wife back home. Its pathetic!

Edited March 16, 2007 by Dan+Nikki

[MrsBruce5 0]

To the OP:

My husband and I have been married for 18 months-he came here permanently on a CR1. We thought about simply getting married on a VWP and adjusting later, just so we could be together.

But....Before all of this transpired we thought of the legality and the ramifications of such an act-so, we sought legal advice through a consult with a wonderful attorney. We were concerned over "dual intent", him being able to work legally, and him being able to go back to his homeland if God forbid something adverse happened to one of his parents. Many people have come over on the VWP, and while it's not exactly the "right" way to handle things, it worked out for them- but the hassles and red tape may outweigh the benefits for you. Adjusting to the nuances of a new country and the first year of a marriage is stressful enough !

Our attorney recommended the CR1, which my husband and I did not even know existed at the time.

Here is how it works:

Our attorney recommended getting married on the VWP, sending him back to the UK, and going forward with all of the required paperwork.

It was by far the best advice I was given, and I can give you as well. It is the simplest way-once you're done and dusted with your arrival at POE, your green card will come in no time, you will have a SS #, you will be able to work legally, go back to the UK as you please-without any issue, and you won't have to deal with USCIS for some time. And furthermore. when you do have to deal with them again, all you have to do is life the conditions on your residency. As I see it, it is the simplest way, and very legal.

Best of luck to you !

Rose

Edited March 16, 2007 by MrsBruce5

[Fandango 1,439]

I'm saying you should be prepared to answer those questions which could be asked. Do I think it is a problem - either practically or morally - no, not in the slightest. I'm fine with it. But again, whatever I'm fine with isn't something anyone should base a decision on.

I dont have a problem with it either. If the OP wants to give it a go knowing that there may be a chance of a problem in the future, that is his choice.

Dont even get me started on "Big Brother"

The real issue here is how sad it is that people are forced to consider ways to trick the system. Why should it take up to a year to bring a US citizens fiance' or Wife back home. Its pathetic!

How are people forced exactly?

Jeez, the sense of entitlement flyin around lately is just too much for words.

[arwensun1965 1]

Hmmmm interesting comments from one and all, I called USCIS not so long ago and was actually told to just come on over, in fact the jerk told me all I had to do was ring border patrol and book an appointment with them, date I was going to arrive etc etc the jerk actually gave me the number for border patrol......... Frist I was just astonished at the reply that I got and then I just put the phone down and burst out laughing, then I told my husband, he said honey you get jerks like that even in government jobs.

The OP would be breaking the law if he had intent to marry, do USCIS care, well that is a matter of opinion, people do this sort of thing and get away with it, is it moral? Who are we to judge.

The upshot of it all is a one of choice, we all have choices in this world and if the OP wants to risk everything then it is his choice, surely he is not that much of an idiot?

[TheZilla 0]

I can see why, if you're going through the K-1 process from start to finish, that would be such a temptation to do. Still, the government already wants so much proof of validity by doing it the K-1 way, I can only imagine what they'd have to ask if you did it the VWP way.

Logically to me, you can't UNDO intent if you have it, you know? Even though the K-1 process is arguous and requires so much perseverance, at least you've got the reassurance that every piece of evidence you're presenting is 100% on the level. That you don't have to THINK about ways to 'skirt' issues, make up stories, get stories 'straight', etc. If you're looking to do it the VWP way, you've already got the intent to marry when you enter the U.S. I don't think you can mentally undo that and just pretend you did it spontaneously. I might be wrong though, there are crafty folks out there.

I kind of agree with LisaD about the sense of entitlement. Don't get me wrong, I get that way too when these months drag on and I'm like 'I pay my freakin' taxes and did this all the way they told me, how can they treat me this way and get away with it???". I think a lot of us have had those moments. In the end though, I just prefer to do it by the book because I just feel like there's nothing really GOOD in this world that doesn't require some hard-### work. If it's simply a matter of not wanting to wait and go through this, I wouldn't think the risks are worth it in the end, you know?

I don't think it's a bad way to go if it can be done legally, it's just that 'intent' issue and how many risks are involved to a relationship if someone just wants to do it 'faster'. I'd honestly prefer to go through all these months of struggle and sweating it out rather than risk him being barred or denied for a very long period of time. I understand the motivation and desire COMPLETELY, I just couldn't take the risk.

Don't know if that makes me a rule-follwing wuss or what, hehe.

[garyandkris 0]

Hmmmm interesting comments from one and all, I called USCIS not so long ago and was actually told to just come on over, in fact the jerk told me all I had to do was ring border patrol and book an appointment with them, date I was going to arrive etc etc the jerk actually gave me the number for border patrol......... Frist I was just astonished at the reply that I got and then I just put the phone down and burst out laughing, then I told my husband, he said honey you get jerks like that even in government jobs.

I had a similar thing happen to me with the Embassy in London many months ago. On three separate occasions, we rang and asked if my husband could enter the US on the VWP and then adjust status. We were told twice that we definitely could and should, and the third time the person said they didn't know but didn't see why not. It was only after doing research online and finally emailing a nice attorney who answered my questions gratis that we discovered this would be considered fraud. I'm sure people have done it and gotten away with it, but we weren't willing to take that chance.

[Fandango 1,439]

I can see why, if you're going through the K-1 process from start to finish, that would be such a temptation to do. Still, the government already wants so much proof of validity by doing it the K-1 way, I can only imagine what they'd have to ask if you did it the VWP way.

Logically to me, you can't UNDO intent if you have it, you know? Even though the K-1 process is arguous and requires so much perseverance, at least you've got the reassurance that every piece of evidence you're presenting is 100% on the level. That you don't have to THINK about ways to 'skirt' issues, make up stories, get stories 'straight', etc. If you're looking to do it the VWP way, you've already got the intent to marry when you enter the U.S. I don't think you can mentally undo that and just pretend you did it spontaneously. I might be wrong though, there are crafty folks out there.

I kind of agree with LisaD about the sense of entitlement. Don't get me wrong, I get that way too when these months drag on and I'm like 'I pay my freakin' taxes and did this all the way they told me, how can they treat me this way and get away with it???". I think a lot of us have had those moments. In the end though, I just prefer to do it by the book because I just feel like there's nothing really GOOD in this world that doesn't require some hard-### work. If it's simply a matter of not wanting to wait and go through this, I wouldn't think the risks are worth it in the end, you know?

I don't think it's a bad way to go if it can be done legally, it's just that 'intent' issue and how many risks are involved to a relationship if someone just wants to do it 'faster'. I'd honestly prefer to go through all these months of struggle and sweating it out rather than risk him being barred or denied for a very long period of time. I understand the motivation and desire COMPLETELY, I just couldn't take the risk.

Don't know if that makes me a rule-follwing wuss or what, hehe.

You're not a wuss I love taking chances, but I'm certainly not going to take chances with my whole future. It's too important to deviate out of the 'rules' imo.

The sense of entitlement thing really aggrivates me because we all need to understand that our fiance(s)s coming here is not a RIGHT. It'll take as long as it takes imo...yes, it's long and it sucks and yadda yadda yadda....but the choice is either follow the rules or don't. No one's forcing anyone to break the law. If one chooses to do so, that is because one has chosen to do so...not because it's 'justified' somehow because of the process.

Yes it sucks. Yes it's long. Yes, it could be more of a logical, simplified process. But it is what it is and at the end of the day, nowt can be done about it.

Edited March 16, 2007 by LisaD

[TheZilla 0]

I agree LisaD. I think SOOOO many people from my generation have that whole 'If I can't get it now, it's NOT FAIR!" thing. I could write a book titled "1,000 Things I Hate About The K-1 VISA Process", but I feel like it's just one of those hard roads you've got to go down in a committed relationship, if you really want it enough. I make the joke that the actual interviews go so fast because what they're REALLY thinking is "Hey, if you people got THIS far after all the ####### we put you through, you MUST love each other".

There are so many different motivations for trying to go the VWP route, every situation is different and the K-1 DOES test your limits quite a bit. When I think about the day it's all done though, when this era fades into that story we'll tell our kids about "Wanna hear the ####### Mommy and Daddy had to go through to be together?", I know overwhelmingly that I'm alright doing it this way. It's just worth it.

[Kez/JWolf 6]

PLEASE TRY TO MAKE A DESTINATION BETWEEN PEOPLE WITH INTENT ENTERING ON A VWP AND PEOPLE WHO ENTERED ON A VWP WITH NO INTENT..... THERE IS A VERY BIG DIFFERENCE... FOR 1 IT IS OK TO DO AOS FOR THE OTHER IT IS NOT.....

Kez

[Teddy406 0]

I agree LisaD. I think SOOOO many people from my generation have that whole 'If I can't get it now, it's NOT FAIR!" thing. I could write a book titled "1,000 Things I Hate About The K-1 VISA Process", but I feel like it's just one of those hard roads you've got to go down in a committed relationship, if you really want it enough. I make the joke that the actual interviews go so fast because what they're REALLY thinking is "Hey, if you people got THIS far after all the ####### we put you through, you MUST love each other".

There are so many different motivations for trying to go the VWP route, every situation is different and the K-1 DOES test your limits quite a bit. When I think about the day it's all done though, when this era fades into that story we'll tell our kids about "Wanna hear the ####### Mommy and Daddy had to go through to be together?", I know overwhelmingly that I'm alright doing it this way. It's just worth it.

Yeah, I hear you on that. I think it's good to have a bit of adversity and hard work in life, makes you appreciate the simpler times. When people ask why my fiancée and i dont argue or that, it's because life is too short and our time together is precious. We could never fall into the "sat infront the TV in silence" and we talk everyday, really talk and get to know each other.

When people question / laugh at our relationship, I can take great pleasure in knowing that deep down, I probably know my fiancee better than they know their wife/husband because i have talked to her for HOURS in the last 3 years, more than they will in 10.

My fiancée and I both take turns to freak out over this (one minute i was convinced i'd mythically contracted a disease through the power of being sure something would come up, then she would say "2 months has been a LIFETIME, AAARGH, THIS SUCKS" but deep down we know we'll have the rest of our lives together. When I was out there last time and I proposed, (no plans to on arrival)

I must admit, VJ and it's members have been spot on and first class. I am someone who takes comfort in the counsel of others more experienced, so this has been great.