In theory......

[SteveUK_BreezyUS 0]

If a UK male citizen visited his US wife-to-be, BEFORE filing any K1 and while visiting decided to get married on the spot, what are the pros and cons? What is the procedure? What is likely to happen and what is the worst that could happen?

[Thingee 0]

Pro? It's fast.

Con? If you PLAN to get married on the spot that's immigrant intent. This leads to other bad things.

The procedure? I have NO idea.

The worst that could happen? You get deported and barred from re-entering.

[Lizzy 0]

Well it is no longer in theory as its already been said lol.

[Fandango 1,439]

In short, Steve...you need to have non-immigrant intent at the POE if coming in on the VWP. If you come in with plans to marry & then do so, you might have to prove how you reasonably severed your ties in the UK whilst not intending on staying when you got married on holiday.

The process would be that you'd have to file for AOS after marrying, which includes an interview, and I'm pretty sure the quickie marriage would be broached cos not too many people have severed all ties with their homeland and then got married 'on a whim'.

Not to mention (paranoid side of me here) that your picture is up here, and now since the quezzie's been asked and answered....should you choose to proceed, this actually proves your intent. If USCIS monitors this site (and yes, this might be rare)....you're taking a big risk with your future.

IMO the juice is not worth the squeeze. It's fraudulent, and you might wind up with a 10-year ban. Do you wanna take those chances?

Edited March 15, 2007 by LisaD

[Fandango 1,439]

In short, Steve...you need to have non-immigrant intent at the POE if coming in on the VWP. If you come in with plans to marry & then do so, you might have to prove how you reasonably severed your ties in the UK whilst not intending on staying when you got married on holiday.

The process would be that you'd have to file for AOS after marrying, which includes an interview, and I'm pretty sure the quickie marriage would be broached cos not too many people have severed all ties with their homeland and then got married 'on a whim'.

Not to mention (paranoid side of me here) that your picture is up here, and now since the quezzie's been asked and answered....should you choose to proceed, this actually proves your intent. If USCIS monitors this site (and yes, this might be rare)....you're taking a big risk with your future.

IMO the juice is not worth the squeeze. It's fraudulent, and you might wind up with a 10-year ban. Do you wanna take those chances?

too late to edit, so I'll correct here...not to many adults have the ease to sever all ties so quickly. Leases/mortgages, job, all your personal belongings, tying up everything in the UK...bank accts. personal belongings, etc. I wouldn't be able to say how many have done it successfully or un, but I wouldn't know how to answer these questions if the officer asked me 'where did you live, when did you quit your job, etc' it's all very CSI to me...this can piece together a picture of you planning on emigrating illegally.

[Lou Lou 1]

If a UK male citizen visited his US wife-to-be, BEFORE filing any K1 and while visiting decided to get married on the spot, what are the pros and cons? What is the procedure? What is likely to happen and what is the worst that could happen?

In theory you would be entering the country with immigrant intent as it's written in black and white right here for the world to see!

Is it worth the risk? That's up to you. Plenty of people have done it, but there's no way I would put my ####### on the line.

[John & Annie 0]

The whole "intent" argument has been thoroughly gone through.

I agree, i would not put my ####### on the line that way.

[Tim and Bethanie 1]

Yeah what they said.

[Kez/JWolf 6]

Are you in the UK or are you already here in the US???

Kez

[TimsDaisy 0]

In short, Steve...you need to have non-immigrant intent at the POE if coming in on the VWP. If you come in with plans to marry & then do so, you might have to prove how you reasonably severed your ties in the UK whilst not intending on staying when you got married on holiday.

The process would be that you'd have to file for AOS after marrying, which includes an interview, and I'm pretty sure the quickie marriage would be broached cos not too many people have severed all ties with their homeland and then got married 'on a whim'.

Not to mention (paranoid side of me here) that your picture is up here, and now since the quezzie's been asked and answered....should you choose to proceed, this actually proves your intent. If USCIS monitors this site (and yes, this might be rare)....you're taking a big risk with your future.

IMO the juice is not worth the squeeze. It's fraudulent, and you might wind up with a 10-year ban. Do you wanna take those chances?

too late to edit, so I'll correct here...not to many adults have the ease to sever all ties so quickly. Leases/mortgages, job, all your personal belongings, tying up everything in the UK...bank accts. personal belongings, etc. I wouldn't be able to say how many have done it successfully or un, but I wouldn't know how to answer these questions if the officer asked me 'where did you live, when did you quit your job, etc' it's all very CSI to me...this can piece together a picture of you planning on emigrating illegally.

WHAT? There's no requirement to sever your ties to your homeland! I've never even seen that implied before.

On the legality side of things, this is how it works:

If you enter on the VWP or a holiday visa that means you are entering - and telling the government that you are entering - for a specific period of time for a specific non-immigrant purpose. If that's not what you're doing, then you're lying to the United State Government.

How much do you think they like that sort of thing?

Legally, however, there is no prohibition, per se, on you falling in love with someone quite out of the blue, or even suddenly deciding to take the leap with your girlfriend, and up and marrying. Just getting married doesn't even post a legal problem.

The potential problems come if you try to stay past the date they told you to leave by when you came in (90 day son the VWP, or whatever you got on a tourist visa, etc). The way to fix that problem is to file your papers to adjust status once you are married (that's the "green card" process). You cannot leave the U.S. after you file those papers and expect to get back in again without either asking for "advanced parole" (meaning advanced permission to re-enter the US), having your green card, or starting with the entire K3 visa process from your home country.

The biggest potential problem, however, as expressed here, is that you must, during the green card process, answer questions related to whether or not you defrauded the government when you entered the United States. Clearly, if you did not INTEND to marry when you came in, then you are okay and did not break any laws. Asking about laws does not necessarily equal INTENT. If you satify the government that you did not commit fraud, then you should be okay since you have complied with United States law and regulation.

HOWEVER, if you cannot prove your non-immigrant intent when you entered (which I would assume you would prove with the same sorts of things you'd use to get a tourist visa: look I still have a mortgage, a job, my parents, a list of connections with my homeland, I certainly didn't PREPARE for this), the penalties can be VERY SEVERE.

As mentioned above, you could be barred from entering the US for a period of years (3, 5, 10) or forever, or lose your VWP privileges (which let me tell you is NO small thing), and you could be removed from the country (deportation) and at the very least, make it very difficult to get through the K3 process easily later.

There are huge consequences if you commit fraud. But only you know what is in your mind and only you know your situation.

You do not need to comment further on either your mind or your situation here. No one here wants or intends to tell you how to skirt the visa process. But you are within your rights to ask about laws and regulations and take this free advice for what it is worth - so long as you understand that none of us here is a lawyer, works for the government, or can tell you for sure what can/will happen to you.

[Kez/JWolf 6]

The biggest potential problem, however, as expressed here, is that you must, during the green card process, answer questions related to whether or not you defrauded the government when you entered the United States. Clearly, if you did not INTEND to marry when you came in, then you are okay and did not break any laws. Asking about laws does not necessarily equal INTENT. If you satify the government that you did not commit fraud, then you should be okay since you have complied with United States law and regulation.

HOWEVER, if you cannot prove your non-immigrant intent when you entered (which I would assume you would prove with the same sorts of things you'd use to get a tourist visa: look I still have a mortgage, a job, my parents, a list of connections with my homeland, I certainly didn't PREPARE for this), the penalties can be VERY SEVERE.

As mentioned above, you could be barred from entering the US for a period of years (3, 5, 10) or forever, or lose your VWP privileges (which let me tell you is NO small thing), and you could be removed from the country (deportation) and at the very least, make it very difficult to get through the K3 process easily later.

Please show me where you got this information from..... Most of us who have completed AOS from a VWP/Toursut visa were never aske to produce any evidence the we did not intend to marry and remain within the USA.... there are way to many people who are willing to say how wrong it is to do AOS from a VWP/Tourist visa....

Kez

Edited March 15, 2007 by Niagaenola

[TimsDaisy 0]

The biggest potential problem, however, as expressed here, is that you must, during the green card process, answer questions related to whether or not you defrauded the government when you entered the United States. Clearly, if you did not INTEND to marry when you came in, then you are okay and did not break any laws. Asking about laws does not necessarily equal INTENT. If you satify the government that you did not commit fraud, then you should be okay since you have complied with United States law and regulation.

HOWEVER, if you cannot prove your non-immigrant intent when you entered (which I would assume you would prove with the same sorts of things you'd use to get a tourist visa: look I still have a mortgage, a job, my parents, a list of connections with my homeland, I certainly didn't PREPARE for this), the penalties can be VERY SEVERE.

As mentioned above, you could be barred from entering the US for a period of years (3, 5, 10) or forever, or lose your VWP privileges (which let me tell you is NO small thing), and you could be removed from the country (deportation) and at the very least, make it very difficult to get through the K3 process easily later.

Please show me where you got this information from..... Most of us who have completed AOS from a VWP/Toursut visa were never aske to produce any evidence the we did not intend to marry and remain within the USA.... there are way to many people who are willing to say how wrong it is to do AOS from a VWP/Tourist visa....

Kez

Pssst - Kez - think before you type man. No one here is going to say "yeah, do it that way" because that would be admitting that you can do it the non-proper way and the terms of service here say that breaking the law is bad. So do morals, the bible, and the US government. Many people who entered on VWP met people after they entered, so they probably didnt' have immigrant intent, so they don't have to worry because they aren't breaking a law. Some people - hell, probably a lot of people - came in on a tourist visa with a wedding dress in their luggage and had no problems later with AOS. But people are going to be very specific and careful with their responses here.

I don't think it is wrong to adjust status after entry on a VWP/tourist visa. But what I think and what the law says are two very, very different things. Hell, I'm jealous if someone can do it that way at this point. But again, my opinion on the matter is worth less than two-cents. A judge at a deportation hearing won't give a sh*t.

We've seen plenty of replies on the board where people say "actually, there was really no headache or problem going through AOS after entry on a non-K visa." But we aren't going to tell people who are premeditating on entering with immigrant intent to do so. This is a public forum and anyone can read it. Don't be like a junior high kid on myspace and think it can't lead to trouble later. Big trouble.

So yes, you're right. And at the same time, no, you're wrong.

But use some common sense too.

Edited March 15, 2007 by TimsDaisy

[Fandango 1,439]

In short, Steve...you need to have non-immigrant intent at the POE if coming in on the VWP. If you come in with plans to marry & then do so, you might have to prove how you reasonably severed your ties in the UK whilst not intending on staying when you got married on holiday.

The process would be that you'd have to file for AOS after marrying, which includes an interview, and I'm pretty sure the quickie marriage would be broached cos not too many people have severed all ties with their homeland and then got married 'on a whim'.

Not to mention (paranoid side of me here) that your picture is up here, and now since the quezzie's been asked and answered....should you choose to proceed, this actually proves your intent. If USCIS monitors this site (and yes, this might be rare)....you're taking a big risk with your future.

IMO the juice is not worth the squeeze. It's fraudulent, and you might wind up with a 10-year ban. Do you wanna take those chances?

too late to edit, so I'll correct here...not to many adults have the ease to sever all ties so quickly. Leases/mortgages, job, all your personal belongings, tying up everything in the UK...bank accts. personal belongings, etc. I wouldn't be able to say how many have done it successfully or un, but I wouldn't know how to answer these questions if the officer asked me 'where did you live, when did you quit your job, etc' it's all very CSI to me...this can piece together a picture of you planning on emigrating illegally.

WHAT? There's no requirement to sever your ties to your homeland! I've never even seen that implied before.

On the legality side of things, this is how it works:

If you enter on the VWP or a holiday visa that means you are entering - and telling the government that you are entering - for a specific period of time for a specific non-immigrant purpose. If that's not what you're doing, then you're lying to the United State Government.

How much do you think they like that sort of thing?

Legally, however, there is no prohibition, per se, on you falling in love with someone quite out of the blue, or even suddenly deciding to take the leap with your girlfriend, and up and marrying. Just getting married doesn't even post a legal problem.

The potential problems come if you try to stay past the date they told you to leave by when you came in (90 day son the VWP, or whatever you got on a tourist visa, etc). The way to fix that problem is to file your papers to adjust status once you are married (that's the "green card" process). You cannot leave the U.S. after you file those papers and expect to get back in again without either asking for "advanced parole" (meaning advanced permission to re-enter the US), having your green card, or starting with the entire K3 visa process from your home country.

The biggest potential problem, however, as expressed here, is that you must, during the green card process, answer questions related to whether or not you defrauded the government when you entered the United States. Clearly, if you did not INTEND to marry when you came in, then you are okay and did not break any laws. Asking about laws does not necessarily equal INTENT. If you satify the government that you did not commit fraud, then you should be okay since you have complied with United States law and regulation.

HOWEVER, if you cannot prove your non-immigrant intent when you entered (which I would assume you would prove with the same sorts of things you'd use to get a tourist visa: look I still have a mortgage, a job, my parents, a list of connections with my homeland, I certainly didn't PREPARE for this), the penalties can be VERY SEVERE.

As mentioned above, you could be barred from entering the US for a period of years (3, 5, 10) or forever, or lose your VWP privileges (which let me tell you is NO small thing), and you could be removed from the country (deportation) and at the very least, make it very difficult to get through the K3 process easily later.

There are huge consequences if you commit fraud. But only you know what is in your mind and only you know your situation.

You do not need to comment further on either your mind or your situation here. No one here wants or intends to tell you how to skirt the visa process. But you are within your rights to ask about laws and regulations and take this free advice for what it is worth - so long as you understand that none of us here is a lawyer, works for the government, or can tell you for sure what can/will happen to you.

Ya reckon? First of all, you twisted what I said. It's not a USCIS req that you sever ties...but duh...how in the world do people emigrate without severing some ties to their homeland? And if one does sever ties before coming on a VWP, how do you think that looks when attempting to prove there was no intent upon arrival if that was done beforehand?

And ask yourself what's the biggest reason for non-admittance into the US whilst a K visa is pending? NO ADEQUATE PROOF OF TIES TO YOUR HOME. Meaning: live with parents, no job...in short. no reason why they can't pick up and leave.

Honestly, it's common sense. I don't see the issue here.

Edited March 15, 2007 by LisaD

[Kez/JWolf 6]

Pssst - Kez - think before you type man. No one here is going to say "yeah, do it that way" because that would be admitting that you can do it the non-proper way and the terms of service here say that breaking the law is bad. So do morals, the bible, and the US government. Many people who entered on VWP met people after they entered, so they probably didnt' have immigrant intent, so they don't have to worry because they aren't breaking a law. Some people - hell, probably a lot of people - came in on a tourist visa with a wedding dress in their luggage and had no problems later with AOS. But people are going to be very specific and careful with their responses here.

I don't think it is wrong to adjust status after entry on a VWP/tourist visa. But what I think and what the law says are two very, very different things. Hell, I'm jealous if someone can do it that way at this point. But again, my opinion on the matter is worth less than two-cents. A judge at a deportation hearing won't give a sh*t.

We've seen plenty of replies on the board where people say "actually, there was really no headache or problem going through AOS after entry on a non-K visa." But we aren't going to tell people who are premeditating on entering with immigrant intent to do so. This is a public forum and anyone can read it. Don't be like a junior high kid on myspace and think it can't lead to trouble later. Big trouble.

So yes, you're right. And at the same time, no, you're wrong.

But use some common sense too.

I do have lots of common sence and your post is saying that you MUST have proof to show the US Government and you will be quizzed about your entry.... and that is bullshit.... you show me where it says that you must have evidence of your ties to your home country or you risk deportation....

If the officer at POE does not ask you any questions.. like are you here to get married or do you intend to return home or do you intend on doing AOS then you have not lied.... I was asked at POE when was your last visit to the USA? then told Thank you have a good trip.... so if I had in the back of my mind that I might stay and get married then how could I have lied??? I was not asked...

At AOS interview my entry to the USA was not even discussed...

No we should not encourage people to break the law but you dont even know if the OP is in the USA or not.... until you do and you know all the facts dont use scare tactics when all someone is doing is asking a question.... and go ask USCIS if its ok to do AOS from a VWP... you will be suprised at there answer...

Kez

[TimsDaisy 0]

Jeez louise - no one on these boards is capable of reading between the lines are they?

I'm saying you should be prepared to answer those questions which could be asked. Do I think it is a problem - either practically or morally - no, not in the slightest. I'm fine with it. But again, whatever I'm fine with isn't something anyone should base a decision on. So I related the law as I understand it. We didn't have the good fortune to adjust after a VWP entry, so I don't know from experience. I am sincerely glad it worked for you. And yes, from what I've seen, it works just fine for most people.

But since my fiance got caught once at the border without sufficient ties - I know a bit about the worst case scenario (that's a gross simplification of the situation, but when you break it down, there you go).

My common sense comment was addressed both to you and the OPs who ask these sorts of questions. If any of them read carefully what is being said and take messages accordingly, they can probably end up drawing a conclusion that supports your experience. But I'm not going to tell people to do something wrong. First you have to explain what wrong is - and then it is up to each couple.

Edited March 15, 2007 by TimsDaisy