China birth certificate or lack there of!

[Jon and Fangfang 5]

Hello everyone. I have a question about birth certificates in China.

Background. We are filling a DCF in China because I have lived here for over 1 1/2 years, and will remain in China at least until the end of this year. We went to the first meeting in Guangzhou when we turned in our I-130 along with a lot of evidence, passports, divorce papers, etc. My wife does not have a birth certificate, so we turned in officially translated and stamped copies of her Huko book. At the time, the person from the consulate didn't question that at all, and just said to bring the original to the finally interview. I have no reason to believe that will not be enough at this point. But, being the diligent person I am, I looked into it more to see if we could get an actual birth certificate. We went to my wife's home town, a small town outside of Nanjing. The police there said "no way", they didn't have computers then, and because my wife was previously married and moved to another city, they don't keep records of her. This is a small town, and these people actually know her parents personally and grew up with her parents. So I have no reason to believe they are just being lazy or don't care. They said maybe we can ask the Suzhou police, that is our current city. We did that, and they said no, she needs to talk to her hometown police. I may be using the wrong term, I don't think they are police, but it is a government agency of some kind. So, we went back to her home town. The people there agreed to make a paper that says, they know she is from this town, and they know her parents are who she says they are. So this paper lists her home town, and her parents, but they wouldn't put date of birth on it. Then we took it and got it officially stamped by three different government agencies in her home town.

Our interview is April 13th in Guangzhou, and I am still assuming that the Hoku book is enough. In the case it is not, I got the new paper translated and stamped. So, I have her place of birth, parents, and date of birth, but it is on two different documents, both of which I have officially translated and notarized. I honestly feel we have done everything possible to validate this, but in the end, if they insist on a document titled "birth certificate" I believe it will be impossible to get, the government people in her home town told her China didn't start doing birth certificates until 2000.

Any input, previous experiences, or just encouragement appreciated.

Jon

[Pitaya 2,577]

Welcome to the forum.

~Moved form DCF General Discussion to China Regional Forum~

~Inquiry is country-specific~

You really need to check out the pinned thread at the top of the China regional forum page titled, Chinese Marriage Visa Terms & Definitions": http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/393969-chinese-marriage-visa-terms-and-definitions/

The consulate in Guangzhou (GUZ) will be looking for a "Notarial Certificate" (AKA White Book) of her "birth certificate.' It is basically a document that is a certified, translated, abstraction from her family Hukou It is a very convoluted system, but read through the pinned thread and it should make more sense as to what you need to do and what you need to present at your visa interview. The consulate folks know exactly what White Books are and they will accept them. You can try other things, but folks tend to successfully use the White Books when the other methods/documents are not accepted.

My wife got multiple copies of all manner of White Books for our immigration journey, birth certs for her and stepson, her divorce decree, his school transcripts. When you go to the notary office, get several additional copies made at that time. It is much easier to get them at that time, then to try and get them later on when you are in the US. Believe me, from one that has successfully run the visa gauntlet at the GUZ.

Good luck on your immigration journey.

Edited March 29, 2016 by Pitaya

[Jon and Fangfang 5]

Thanks Pitaya, We did exactly that. We took the Hukou book to get the White Book made, and they said they can't do it. They told us she needs to bring her mom and dad, their ID cards, and they need to bring medical records of blood testing to prove they are her parents before they would provide a Certified birth certificate. We were stunned. It will not be possible to get her parents to do all of that. He current Hukou book is in her ex-husbands fathers name, as it takes something like three years in her own home to move the Hukou. She has only shared an apartment with a friend of hers before moving in with me. I am really starting to worry we are going down a dead end street. The Chinese officials we talk to have no interest in explaining or helping us in any way.

Thanks again, Jon

[Jon and Fangfang 5]

Follow up question. I have read in some very old posts in this forum that we could provide a document that states no birth certificate is available. My wife was born at home in a small town. We have asked so many Chinese police, notary services in both her hometown and in Suzhou, and no one will help with anything. It is always someone elses job...I have been in China a while, so I expect this, but it is getting frustrating at this point.

Can someone provide me the name of the document that says "no birth certificate is available" in Chinese so I can tell my wife. She will go to the police again tomorrow to see if we can get that document in place of an actual birth certificate. It seems her being married before removed her from her parents Hukou, and that is what is causing all the problems.

Thanks,

Jon

[Chris and ZhiJia 146]

Jon, please look into the discussion in this thread from 2009.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/225414-china-birth-certificate-not-available/

[Pitaya 2,577]

Jon, please look into the discussion in this thread from 2009.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/225414-china-birth-certificate-not-available/

Wow Chris, that is a good find on a 6-year old thread. Jon, the contents of that old thread may still work. I can say that most, if not all, of the responders on that thread are knowledgeable, seasoned (and lightly-breaded ) veterans of VJ and the China Forum, and would have no reservations about following their advice. Now, if the Chinese bureaucrats will comply, is a different matter.

Needless to say, whatever document you end up at the end of this part of your immigration journey, make several copies of it, and don't let someone take the original without a fight. (Of course, if you can get several "originals" made at the time, go for it.) I have gotten into the habit of putting original documents in plastic Presentation Sheet Protectors, and making several good quality laser copies (one page-front and back). I have successfully sent in these good quality copies to USCIS, then brought the original for comparison by the CO/IO at the interview.

Post back with the progress of your saga of the China birth cert.

Good luck on your immigration journey.

[Chris and ZhiJia 146]

Wow Chris, that is a good find on a 6-year old thread.

In an effort to find useful information I just googled his words and that thread was the first one to come up in my search "literally the first hit". I just hope it proves useful after all these years.

[Jon and Fangfang 5]

Thanks Chris, that is what I did last night. I thought it was funny, if I googled these questions it led me to 4 posts on VJ. I read that post last night, and sent the Chinese language explanation to my wife. She did not go to the Hukou registry people, so she is going to do that as we speak. I still have a feeling the Chinese bureaucrats will not be helpful, but my fingers are crossed. Worst case, she will go back to her home town and get a paper that says "birth certificate unavailable" as I found that in another post from google. Hopefully with all of these collected...sigh.

Thanks for all the help guys. I will post back later and let you know what the Hukou registry says.

Jon

[Jon and Fangfang 5]

Update: Suzhou Hukou registry will not help at all. They said she was not born in Suzhou, so they can't help her. They said she needs to go to her home town and talk to those people. We have already talked to the people in her home town, and they said she moved to Suzhou and that moved her Hukou, so they can't help her. They also refused to give her anymore written documents. She will go back to her home town on Thursday and speak with them again on Friday, but my hopes are not high. This is a disaster, and I am beyond angry at this point. I will update again on Friday after she meets with her home town people again. She will ask for a document that says "birth certificate unavailable" as that seems like the only option left to us. Then we will go to the interview in 2 weeks and see what they say. If they say everything we have is not enough, I am not sure what we will do.

Thanks for all the help so far, it is unfortunate that the Chinese police just don't seem to care.

Jon

[RandyW 149]

Do NOT get a "birth certificate" - it WILL be rejected, since they were not issued in China prior to the 1990's, as you have been told. What you need is known as a "notarial certificate of birth" - basically, a statement from the notarial official as to the circumstance of your wife's birth.

Chinese documents are issued by Chinese authorities, NOT to standards set by others. The Consulate is well aware of this, and WILL ACCEPT the Notarial Certificates, which ARE generated at the Notarial offices.

Notarial Certificate of Birth

Most confusion with the Chinese Notarial Documents is with the Notarial Certificate of Birth. Prior to 1991, birth certificates were not issued at birth. A notarial certificate with translation must be generated from the hukou.

The notation on the notarial birth certificate is 出生公证书, or chu sheng gong zheng shu, which is what you need to ask for at the Gong Zheng Chu, or 公证处֤֤֤.

A sample Notarial Certificate of Birth may be found at http://candleforlove...books/?p=626052

Chinese Notarial Documents - see DOS China Reciprocity Schedule

NOTE: If the link is broken, try http://travel.state.gov/ and search for "Reciprocity by Country" (they seem to change this periodically)

Most of the documents needed can be obtained from one of China's Notarial Offices (Gong Zheng Chu, or 公证处֤֤). All Chinese documentation to be used abroad is processed through the notary offices and issued in the form of notarial certificates (known as "white books"). Notarial offices are located in all major Chinese cities and in rural county seats

The documents required are the GongZhengShu (公证书֤) ֤֤ or Notarial Certificate.

Sample application for documents (your province or hukou may vary):

http://bnpo.gov.cn/en/en_index

A discussion of the huji (or hukou system can be found at Hukou System. Chinese residents should go to their hukou for all notarial documents (birth, divorce, and/or single certificate, and police records). For the police record, one obtained at the hukou will cover all of China.

A notarial document will be in the standard white notarial booklet, have an official red seal, an English translation, and an attestation to the true translation.

Note that police records and single certificates are valid for one year from the date of notarization. Others are valid indefinitely.

[Jon and Fangfang 5]

Thanks Randy. She went to the Gong Zheng Chu before, and they said they can't use her Hukou book because her parents are not listed in it. She was married and moved to her ex-husbands Hukou book. So her current Hukou book lists he ex-husbands father as head of household. So, even the Gong Zheng Chu is saying they can't help because her Hukou doesn't list her parents.

[RandyW 149]

She has a Chinese passport and a Chinese ID. She is a fully documented Chinese citizen. What WILL they do for her in the way of a notarial certificate of birth (出生公证书) or chu sheng gong zheng shu ?

[RandyW 149]

She has a Chinese passport and a Chinese ID. She is a fully documented Chinese citizen. What WILL they do for her in the way of a notarial certificate of birth (出生公证书) or chu sheng gong zheng shu ?

I just re-read your first post - it seems to me that taking the two documents and the hukou book(s) to the Gong Zheng Chu is the thing to do. THIS is the office that generates the Notarial Certificate of Birth.

[RandyW 149]

Reading back AGAIN - the PSB (police) DOES NOT generate birth certificates. You need to take the documents you HAVE - the hukou AND the "this paper lists her home town, and her parents, but they wouldn't put date of birth on it" to the Gong Zheng Chu and see if they won't generate a Notarial Certificate of Birth for you.

My bet is that they will, once they see your certified evidence of who her parents are.

[Jon and Fangfang 5]

So, we have a paper. I am hoping this will be enough, if not, we will go back to fighting them on this. We showed them the Hukou book, and the paper we got from her home town. What they gave us is a Notarized paper that says this.

Page one: Fangfang (ID #123456789) is the 4th daughter of her mom and dad (by name). She lived in her home town until (date), she left her home town because she was married.

Page two: Fangfang (ID #123456789) was born on (date)

I really hope it is good enough, it has all the relevant information, but it is called "Notarial Certificate" instead of "Notarial Certificate of Birth".

Fingers crossed this is enough.

Thanks for all the input. Randy, the example Certificate in your link was probably the key. It is what got us saying Notarial Certificate of Birth, instead of Birth Certificate. Those are two very different things in China. Lesson learned on that, miscommunication at it finest. sigh... lol