Europe is at war again

[ready4ONE 5,400]

false equivalence. The west is not merely in a fight for its lives but its culture. I am pretty okay not driving down the road and seeing thieves hanging from cranes because some savage using a thousand year old view of how to treat people thinks it is a good idea and convinced a bunch of his brethren the same. A huge number of Muslims want sharia law (they admit this readily in every poll ever taken) in the west.

So even if we ignore the fact that almost all of the world's terror related fatalities are due to the merciful grace of allah, peace be with him, it isn't like Islam is a progressive methodology that extends upon its practitioners a mature sense of human rights.

So far Europe has too many sheep and not enough shepherds. Each attack from the invaders converts a few more from the former to the latter.

You fail to understand that the verbiage of Islam is used by both mainstream practitioners of Islam and the far smaller number of Radical Islamic Terrorist types. The same words carrying very different meaning. But I recognize that you refuse to see the full picture and along with a number of others here in VJ prefer to continue to post comments equating all Muslims as one, despite the clear evidence contradicting that position.

[lostinblue 1,989]

[ready4ONE 5,400]

I propose that the gun aficionado crowd conduct the following test:

Get a fellow gun nut to shoot you without comment.

Then have the fellow gun nut shoot you a second time yelling Allahu Ahkbar.

Then post the results here. Was the second shot greater than 256.5 times more painful?

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

I propose that the gun aficionado crowd conduct the following test:

Get a fellow gun nut to shoot you without comment.

Then have the fellow gun nut shoot you a second time yelling Allahu Ahkbar.

Then post the results here. Was the second shot greater than 256.5 times more painful?

You know what's telling? No stats have been broken out yet. The crowd that loves numbers flat out refuses to do a comparison here when it comes to gun deaths vs terrorism here in the US.

2896 people have died from guns since January. Out of that number 121 have been children. That's a tad bit more than 14 yeah? Instead of hating on Muslims, we should be trying to figure out how to help each other.

[Dakine10 5,452]

Europe is at war again

Some people here seem to like to point out that Islam has experienced infighting for centuries, as if Islam somehow works as a giant collective mind.

So when you say Europe is a war again, I would like to point out something you have overlooked. It is rare when Europe is not at war.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

false equivalence. The west is not merely in a fight for its lives but its culture. I am pretty okay not driving down the road and seeing thieves hanging from cranes because some savage using a thousand year old view of how to treat people thinks it is a good idea and convinced a bunch of his brethren the same. A huge number of Muslims want sharia law (they admit this readily in every poll ever taken) in the west.

So even if we ignore the fact that almost all of the world's terror related fatalities are due to the merciful grace of allah, peace be with him, it isn't like Islam is a progressive methodology that extends upon its practitioners a mature sense of human rights.

So far Europe has too many sheep and not enough shepherds. Each attack from the invaders converts a few more from the former to the latter.

The fight is costing far more Muslim lives lost, including those lost to the violent Jihadis you lump together as one big monolith hell bent on destruction of the West, but who are killing 'fellow' Muslims. Also included are the many Muslim lives lost to Western military responses to the violent Jihadis, which when in error helps create more violent Jihadis.

The end of Western Civilization is not nigh. Just the end of some folks ability to make proper observation of the complex world around them.

[Boiler 45,519]

Says it all.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

The video does say it all, but what it says is how easy it is for Lost to find items on the internet that he thinks support his warped world view but instead just get you yucking along with his post.

[OriZ 3,157]

In your case yes, it could be. I think you are looking at the two issues somewhat differently than the corps bunker dwellers.

I've spent more time with Muslims than probably most people in this forum from BOTH ends of the spectrum...living where they are 25% of the population and still knowing Muslims I consider friends, I have this to say -

Yes, there are many good muslims.

Yes, there are many bad muslims.

My perception is that good muslims are for the most part a "silent majority". However, there is no doubt that a larger percentage of the muslim population either engages or believes in acts of terrorism, than the percentage in other religions. That is not prejudice it is simply statistical facts. And the concern is that this percentage only grows, instead of becoming smaller.

I think the Muslim community needs to stop being a "silent majority". It's not about "apologizing"(like in that stupid other post that I don't even want to go into), nobody actually expects anyone to apologize for something they didn't do, that's ludicrous. However, burying your head in the sand, not being willing to even condemn, or acknowledge that there is an issue with your community is not going to fix it. The first step in solving a problem is admitting there is one to start with and if you're not willing to do that, if you're not willing to look deep within you and see what needs to be done differently or fixed then you are part of the problem.

Again, no one expects them to apologize for something they didn't do. But instead of going "this isn't me and therefor I don't have to do or say anything" why don't you address the gd problem for once? Stop trying to pretend you're just the victim here and maybe see how people can be educated differently so that they don't end up brainwashed.

Right now they have a problem they are not willing to admit to. Well, I should say some are not. Some others, like Zuhdi Jasser( http://aifdemocracy.org/about/staff/founder-president/ ) are doing a great job in my opinion of addressing the issues at hand.

I also find it hypocritical that some of those "moderate" muslims are in fact very selectively and half heartedly condemning terrorism against some, while still supporting terrorism against others. Case in point - some of them will go out and condemn Isis for example, but say no word about Hamas or Hezbollah. Oh wait a minute, it must be justified because of the disputed territories. I don't find making excuses for deliberately killing innocent people acceptable. If you condemn one and not the other to me you have done squat to combat the issue. I posted this the other day and I think it serves as a good example:

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4782689,00.html

On the surface, this woman is a moderate, good muslim who came to show solidarity. But what she did tells me she is actually just another hypocrite who was bred to hate and is letting her obsession against certain people get the best of her all the while pretending to show solidarity with others whom she does or doesn't actually hate, who knows. To me, she does not belong in the "silent majority" group. She is very much part of the other group. How many of those are out there(wink wink article) that talk from both sides of their mouth and think no one will notice? Oh, it's getting noticed alright.

So to summarize: a good muslim would be one that condemns all terrorism, against all people, wholeheartedly and actually means it and actually tries to do something about it. a not so good muslim is one who condemns some terrorism, usually halfheartedly, and doesn't think anything should be done about it.

Edited March 26, 2016 by OriZ

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

I've spent more time with Muslims than probably most people in this forum from BOTH ends of the spectrum...living where they are 25% of the population and still knowing Muslims I consider friends, I have this to say -

Yes, there are many good muslims.

Yes, there are many bad muslims.

My perception is that good muslims are for the most part a "silent majority". However, there is no doubt that a larger percentage of the muslim population either engages or believes in acts of terrorism, than the percentage in other religions. That is not prejudice it is simply statistical facts. And the concern is that this percentage only grows, instead of becoming smaller.

I think the Muslim community needs to stop being a "silent majority". It's not about "apologizing"(like in that stupid other post that I don't even want to go into), nobody actually expects anyone to apologize for something they didn't do, that's ludicrous. However, burying your head in the sand, not being willing to even condemn, or acknowledge that there is an issue with your community is not going to fix it. The first step in solving a problem is admitting there is one to start with and if you're not willing to do that, if you're not willing to look deep within you and see what needs to be done differently or fixed then you are part of the problem.

Again, no one expects them to apologize for something they didn't do. But instead of going "this isn't me and therefor I don't have to do or say anything" why don't you address the gd problem for once? Stop trying to pretend you're just the victim here and maybe see how people can be educated differently so that they don't end up brainwashed.

Right now they have a problem they are not willing to admit to. Well, I should say some are not. Some others, like Zuhdi Jasser( http://aifdemocracy.org/about/staff/founder-president/ ) are doing a great job in my opinion of addressing the issues at hand.

I also find it hypocritical that some of those "moderate" muslims are in fact very selectively and half heartedly condemning terrorism against some, while still supporting terrorism against others. Case in point - some of them will go out and condemn Isis for example, but say no word about Hamas or Hezbollah. Oh wait a minute, it must be justified because of the disputed territories. I don't find making excuses for deliberately killing innocent people acceptable. If you condemn one and not the other to me you have done squat to combat the issue. I posted this the other day and I think it serves as a good example:

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4782689,00.html

On the surface, this woman is a moderate, good muslim who came to show solidarity. But what she did tells me she is actually just another hypocrite who was bred to hate and is letting her obsession against certain people get the best of her all the while pretending to show solidarity with others whom she does or doesn't actually hate, who knows. To me, she does not belong in the "silent majority" group. She is very much part of the other group. How many of those are out there(wink wink article) that talk from both sides of their mouth and think no one will notice? Oh, it's getting noticed alright.

So to summarize: a good muslim would be one that condemns all terrorism, against all people, wholeheartedly and actually means it and actually tries to do something about it. a not so good muslim is one who condemns some terrorism, usually halfheartedly, and doesn't think anything should be done about it.

You know what's funny about this? When people say the exact same thing about gun deaths, the answer is somehow appropriate that it's not me but them.

Also, I was a Muslim and here for the duration of that time. Can't tell you how many times I was requested to denounce terrorism. Or I should feel shame when a Muslim does something. Or flat out asked about when someone idiot blew himself up in Iraq, what's wrong with you all? Muslims are ALWAYS asked to denounce terrorism when it happens. That was the point of the article you didn't want to go in but posted in anyway. They're always asked to apologize when someone claims to be of Islam and kills.

http://www.usnews.com/news/the-report/articles/2015-12-18/yes-moderate-muslims-do-denounce-terrorism-though-the-media-ignores-it

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/muslims-like-me-are-asked-the-same-questions-after-any-terrorist-attack-for-the-record-here-are-our-a6948131.html

They even went and created a hastag: http://isisnotinmyname.com/

So, does this same mindset applies to gun owners? Should they be held responsible for every gun death that happens? Because if we're going to apply this mindset that Muslims here and abroad should do more to police themselves when they don't make up for 1% of the murders here, then gun owners better start getting out there and putting in overtime since Muslim killers stand at 14, while gun deaths are at 2900.

[OriZ 3,157]

You know what's funny about this? When people say the exact same thing about gun deaths, the answer is somehow appropriate that it's not me but them.

Also, I was a Muslim and here for the duration of that time. Can't tell you how many times I was requested to denounce terrorism. Or I should feel shame when a Muslim does something. Or flat out asked about when someone idiot blew himself up in Iraq, what's wrong with you all? Muslims are ALWAYS asked to denounce terrorism when it happens. That was the point of the article you didn't want to go in but posted in anyway. They're always asked to apologize when someone claims to be of Islam and kills.

http://www.usnews.com/news/the-report/articles/2015-12-18/yes-moderate-muslims-do-denounce-terrorism-though-the-media-ignores-it

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/muslims-like-me-are-asked-the-same-questions-after-any-terrorist-attack-for-the-record-here-are-our-a6948131.html

They even went and created a hastag: http://isisnotinmyname.com/

So, does this same mindset applies to gun owners? Should they be held responsible for every gun death that happens? Because if we're going to apply this mindset that Muslims here and abroad should do more to police themselves when they don't make up for 1% of the murders here, then gun owners better start getting out there and putting in overtime since Muslim killers stand at 14, while gun deaths are at 2900.

You're proving exactly my point. Instead of dealing head on with the issue you're presented with, you want to deflect(gun violence) and be an apologist for the problem.

[Boiler 45,519]

You're proving exactly my point. Instead of dealing head on with the issue you're presented with, you want to deflect(gun violence) and be an apologist for the problem.

A very common trait, blame an inanimate object

[Ban Hammer 13,342]

So, does this same mindset applies to gun owners? Should they be held responsible for every gun death that happens?

some would like for gun owners to be held responsible by banning all firearms.

[Boiler 45,519]

some would like for gun owners to be held responsible by banning all firearms.

Not sure that was the analogy in mind.

[Merrytooth 5,748]

I've spent more time with Muslims than probably most people in this forum from BOTH ends of the spectrum

Most people here who never live in places surrounded by Muslim Countries who are constantly trying to wipe you off the map, are trying to tell you what you should feel / think

I find these 'moderate' Muslims hypocrite too.

In peaceful Singapore, these Muslims when come to Israel Palestine conflict, they go hell bat-#### crazy. It is Middle East issue, not even Singapore fight to begin with.

But they stand in solidarity with their far away 'brothers' in religion

When comes to ISIS, bombings in France, Belgium, Muslims Shiite Sunni killing each other, not a peep from these 'moderate' Muslims.

I guess it is ok for Muslims killing each other, or other people, not ok if outsiders targeting them

It is always the evil CIA/Mossad conspiracy!