‘Go Back to Auschwitz’ and ‘Go Back to Africa’ Yelled Outside Trump Rally

[Expat1 971]

Ahem. It wouldn't be 5% of 38,000. It would be 5% of 200,000.

Higher earners should pay for their own kids. But not for someone else's unless that someone else has absolutely no other way. That's the heart of the matter(as free college WOULD mean paying for someone else's)..

Then you're cutting taxes by 25%, and yes that's about right for tuition/fees for state uni.

What you are describing is what we have today. We pay for our kids, and the government dumps cash that we paid in tax dollars on other people's kids. It's the real middle class that gets screwed, they pay a lot of taxes, don't really have the extra to cover the college, kids don't qualify for anything because their parents make too much, and they end up borrowing a lot of money that they can't make enough to ever pay back. That's probably not you or me but it's the story of the average household and I think that if we are going to invest in people that's the time and place to do it.

You do know that there will have to be a reset and bailout for that eventually, it isn't sustainable. A country full of debtors is a country full of slaves.

[Jacque67 7,328]

Is that what you really concluded from what I said or are you drinking and dialing

Google the word facetious sometime soon, like now.

[Expat1 971]

Google the word facetious sometime soon, like now.

D&D again. Got it.

[Jacque67 7,328]

D&D again. Got it.

Zzzzzzzzz

[smilesammich 10,727]

Not me, I was vulgar when we had AOL and bbs's

some of us were born with special gifts.

[OriZ 3,157]

Then you're cutting taxes by 25%, and yes that's about right for tuition/fees for state uni.

What you are describing is what we have today. We pay for our kids, and the government dumps cash that we paid in tax dollars on other people's kids. It's the real middle class that gets screwed, they pay a lot of taxes, don't really have the extra to cover the college, kids don't qualify for anything because their parents make too much, and they end up borrowing a lot of money that they can't make enough to ever pay back. That's probably not you or me but it's the story of the average household and I think that if we are going to invest in people that's the time and place to do it.

You do know that there will have to be a reset and bailout for that eventually, it isn't sustainable. A country full of debtors is a country full of slaves.

I guess there was a misunderstanding. I'm talking about an absolute number(the bracket being 5% lower) and not as a percentage of the taxes paid today. So 25% the way you see it, or 5% the way I see it same thing essentially.

Yes it is what we have today but with changes. What the government basically does now is "charge" you a ton of money upfront and then give (some of) it back to you through the back door, via services some of us don't even need. The changes that I mentioned I believe would make tuition go down, and make college more affordable for more people. I do NOT want free college tuition for all, how do you suggest we pay for that? It's going to be a very expensive program, especially if it does include private and not just public(not that public isn't expensive enough). Some suggest raising taxes on the wealthy, raising capital gains tax, the robin hood tax, etc. But those people making say 120,000 a year - would they be better off if their taxes were higher(or even the same) as they are today but received all those services from the government, of if you cut their taxes and let them decide what to spend their money on? I think government needs to be smaller, not grow, and I don't believe it is the government's job to offer things like free healthcare or free college tuition. I believe they should let people keep more of their own money, and then those people will have a much easier time being able to afford college tuition without needing the government(as in all of us) to pay for it. That's not only the right thing to do - it's the capitalist thing to do. Capitalism, in my book, doesn't clash with helping out those who both need AND deserve the help. What clashes with it is a government that has its hand in everything. If you take this family that say saves 2,000 a month...and free up another 10,000 a year just by lowering their taxes, you are now talking about $34,000 a year. That's not going to screw them for sure - as far as the middle class that is why I set the bar higher than it is today and said it should be 5-10 times the federal poverty level(and not 100-130% like say, medicaid is today).

This actually reminds me right before we left Israel the government there decided all dental treatments in kids under the age of 4 should be covered. I knew people who thought this was a fabulous idea. For the same reasons I have already mentioned I thought it was a horrible idea, and still do.

Of course there will be bailouts. It's a bubble much like the real estate bubble.

Edited March 19, 2016 by OriZ

[smilesammich 10,727]

5% of 38,000 doesnt buy the meal plan. Your numbers dont add up. It boils down the concept that higher earners should pay for their own kids and pay for someone else's kids too. We have that now.

fwiw, it's not just that i believe access to higher education should be free but also how those institutions function needs to be overhauled; public schools should be more locale based, eliminating dorms and cafeterias and focusing on education solely. college now, for many, is more about the experience of living somewhere other than your parents. like a reality halfway house instead of institutions of learning..this when the a growing number of adults live with their parents years after graduating college.

[Rob L 3,811]

fwiw, it's not just that i believe access to higher education should be free but also how those institutions function needs to be overhauled; public schools should be more locale based, eliminating dorms and cafeterias and focusing on education solely. college now, for many, is more about the experience of living somewhere other than your parents. like a reality halfway house instead of institutions of learning..this when the a growing number of adults live with their parents years after graduating college.

You are on the right track...technology and creativity can boost the way knowledge is transmitted...and everyone of us should continue to consume this for the rest of our lives. Versus

The need for a University experience where young people leave the home and attach themselves to new ideas with guides and mentors. How will we maintain or substitute for that tradition?

[Expat1 971]

fwiw, it's not just that i believe access to higher education should be free but also how those institutions function needs to be overhauled; public schools should be more locale based, eliminating dorms and cafeterias and focusing on education solely. college now, for many, is more about the experience of living somewhere other than your parents. like a reality halfway house instead of institutions of learning..this when the a growing number of adults live with their parents years after graduating college.

I think that it should be free to kids who work hard and do well and earn it and I think we should set standards and entitle them, all of them, who meet that standard to it.

I don't see this halfway house thing happening as much as it appears to happen on TV. Maybe it happens, but from what I can tell my kid and her friends are working hard. I keep up with her school business, and we have a few basic understandings regarding expectations that so far she hasn't violated. Won't say she didn't struggle, sophomore year was a little bit challenging but so far it seems that she'll knock it out in 4 1/2 years, which was better than I did (5).

I put her in the dorms on prison food with nothing but a bike for 2 years. It's basic suffering and the dorms at least have some basic rules about coming, going, and fooling around that a shared apt doesn't have and I heard / ignored allllll the stories about what the other kids got/didn't get and did/didn't do, as if magically after 19 years I would suddenly start caring about schtick like that. After the suffering I dropped her a car and co-signed a lease and she's been on her own, suffering completed. She's been working part time making running expenses and I keep a net under her and so far I've been happy with her progress.

I don't see that it has been a big party for her and the kids around her. I think it's pretty tough on the average kid from the average house to get through it.

[Expat1 971]

The US is an emerging market?

I will give you a serious answer. It's worse. I've been to a few emerging market countries. They educate their smart kids, all the way. Those kids compete for that from their first day and those kids are kicking American students' tails in our own country and out in the rest of the world.

[OriZ 3,157]

I want to add one last thing and that's that after all, the median household income in this country is just over $50,000. Only about 20% of households actually earn more than 100,000 a year. So really 80% would still be covered even with this financial eligibility criteria. Of those 80%, only those who also meet the academic criteria would actually receive the aid. I have no problem with the top 20% of earners having to pay for their own kids college. On the flip side I also think their taxes should be lower. So at the end of the day it's really just a trade off. Some people think they should pay more and receive more, I think they should pay less and receive less. Trade-off is all it is.

Edited March 19, 2016 by OriZ

[smilesammich 10,727]

You are on the right track...technology and creativity can boost the way knowledge is transmitted...and everyone of us should continue to consume this for the rest of our lives. Versus

The need for a University experience where young people leave the home and attach themselves to new ideas with guides and mentors. How will we maintain or substitute for that tradition?

i understand the need for kids to detach from the family home and learn to function independently, i just don't know how important that is given the recent trend of graduating and moving home. i moved out on my own as soon as i turned 18 and never had the college experience so that probably has something to do with me not seeing the value in it. i can say neither of my siblings have ever really mentioned any mentors as such and they both went away to college. lots of party stories though

[smilesammich 10,727]

I want to add one last thing and that's that after all, the median household income in this country is just over $50,000. Only about 20% of households actually earn more than 100,000 a year. So really 80% would still be covered even with this financial eligibility criteria. Of those 80%, only those who also meet the academic criteria would actually receive the aid. I have no problem with the top 20% of earners having to pay for their own kids college. On the flip side I also think their taxes should be lower. So at the end of the day it's really just a trade off. Some people think they should pay more and receive more, I think they should pay less and receive less. Trade-off is all it is.

but ultimately youre giving every tax payer less choice.

[smilesammich 10,727]

I think that it should be free to kids who work hard and do well and earn it and I think we should set standards and entitle them, all of them, who meet that standard to it.

I don't see this halfway house thing happening as much as it appears to happen on TV. Maybe it happens, but from what I can tell my kid and her friends are working hard. I keep up with her school business, and we have a few basic understandings regarding expectations that so far she hasn't violated. Won't say she didn't struggle, sophomore year was a little bit challenging but so far it seems that she'll knock it out in 4 1/2 years, which was better than I did (5).

I put her in the dorms on prison food with nothing but a bike for 2 years. It's basic suffering and the dorms at least have some basic rules about coming, going, and fooling around that a shared apt doesn't have and I heard / ignored allllll the stories about what the other kids got/didn't get and did/didn't do, as if magically after 19 years I would suddenly start caring about schtick like that. After the suffering I dropped her a car and co-signed a lease and she's been on her own, suffering completed. She's been working part time making running expenses and I keep a net under her and so far I've been happy with her progress.

I don't see that it has been a big party for her and the kids around her. I think it's pretty tough on the average kid from the average house to get through it.

overall our approach to higher education is outdated, i think we should be thinking of access for adults of all ages and what portions of education might be better learned from internships etc

[OriZ 3,157]

but ultimately youre giving every tax payer less choice.

How's that?