Just Complaining

[Bootylicious!! 2]

My point in the beginning was he(the president) will try to make allowances for those that are here to become citizens, when in reality most dont want to be, but we have to go thru so much to get ours here when they are good, well educated people wanting to be good citizens.

My town especially on my South side has been turned into more or less a small Mexican community. On my street i would venture to say myself and maybe 2 more house are the only ones NOT Mexican i have nothing against any of these people and so far none have cause any problems. The stores in this area hire clerk knowing both languages etc butttttttt in some of these houses (mostly older 2 bedroom) you will find 5/6 brand new cars/trucks hardly any way that many people will fit into it. The adults do not learn english their children often do the talking for them but yet alot of our guys are advised to do the interviews in english etc. They or we have to pay the fees for them to be here what fees did these others pay to just come here, not speak the language, not pay the taxes, not turn into citizens. They do send most of the money home and true most come from bad conditions looking for something better but has anyone been to Morocco lately and other places im sure. The ones (mexican) i have known of come here with the intentions of working, saving, sending it home and then when the time is right they will also return. No desire to be citizens. Here in Okla i would venture to say most have a pretty good life.

How do you know they are Mexicans? Did you ask them? Or are you just assuming because they are brown skinned and speak spanish they must be Mexican? You do realize most of the ones just rounded up in those raids last week were Guatemalan and El Salvadorian.

[CarolineM 0]

Ppl assume most in our neighborhood are Mexican...but I actually asked them and most are from Honduras!!!

[Traviesa 0]

LOL Franklin, who take out the garbage...yeah he's from Honduras. Illegal too. We don't actually have Mexicans working here-all our illegals are from other places.

[brnidokiegurl 0]

These particular ones are Mexican and in my past jobs were Mexican and the ones on the South side of OKC are Mexican some that were my friends and my x's (that had family doing the same things) (thats not the point) point being (anyone) being helped to be a citizen while doing something like staying here (wrongly) while we all try so hard, some waiting years.

[notrepetiteashley 0]

I'm certain my opinions are in the minority here. Which is not necessarily a bad thing. I will only say:

1. The US doesn't buy Mexico because we have no money, but that is a cute thing to say and made me smile.

2. True, going through this process is no fun.

3. I bet it's no fun to be an illegal immigrant either...some are just trying to survive poverty and better situations for their families...and even if they don't pay taxes here, what sort of life do you think they have in the US?

4. And this is from my EXPERIENCE only: this whole thing is creating an awful lot of racism towards Mexican people. I realise you can be against illegal immigration and not racist, but that's not what I'm referring to. I'm referring to the ignorant, uneducated individuals who make generalizations about an entire country of people.

5. Deport all the illegal immigrants from Mexico and watch what happens to this country. Seriously.

Mexicans did not build this country and to insinuate that without them, the US would fall apart is a slap in the face to the legals who did build it. It smacks of the attitude that Americans are incompetent without illegal labor. On the contrary, working wages have fallen percipitously since raids and regular deporations have stopped. It hasn't helped us to import unskilled labor; it has cost us more than it's worth to social growth. Racism against Mexicans is bound to grow as the demands for taxpayers to bend over and satisfy their demands and to compete with them for slots in higher education and in the workplace, but, it is predictable. I believe it is already becoming a problem.

BTW, I saw a news segment about how the latinos in east LA want to secede and make it a separate latino city. I speak Spanish and was very involved in American Indian sovereignty movements as a kid. Part of the leftist element was the reconquestador movement among the chicanos. This call for a separate city is an expression of that. Mexico lost land to the US, they have been plotting to get it back by attrition. As we are defeated by simply giving up (and Americans are becoming baldfaced defeatists about nearly everything!), they simply take it back. There's no need for assimilation when you are given a pass to stay as Mexican as you always were.

Hmmm...not sure you understood what I meant with that. I never said Mexicans built this country, nor was I referring to taxpaying in any sense. I can tell you are extremely concerned with the issue of illegal immigrants not paying taxes. I was also NOT saying Americans are incompetent without illegal labour. Looking back at what I wrote, I would change what I wrote on #5 because it is vague and leaves room for incorrect interpretations and assumptions about my opinions. It's a dangerous thing to read more into a statement than what is there, thus vague statements are not the way to go.

And I don't care how screwed over we are getting in the tax arena, there is no excuse for racism towards anyone. That's pathetic and sad. (not saying you yourself are racist.)

Interesting news segment. What, in your opinion (or anyone else's who's interested) are the benefits of assimilation? I think it is viewed much differently in Canada. I am a USC, but I tend to view things from a Canadian standpoint, if that makes sense.

Cheers.

Edited March 14, 2007 by notrepetiteashley

[J. Canuck 0]

Mexicans did not build this country and to insinuate that without them, the US would fall apart is a slap in the face to the legals who did build it.

Firstly, what legals? This continent was inhabited, and Europeans, in the mad quest for $$$ and power, came in under at best misleading pretenses and took over. Anyone descended from Europeans born in America is descended from illegal immigrants, at least in part.

It smacks of the attitude that Americans are incompetent without illegal labor.

That *seems* to be more your personal interpretation of what was posted, and not what notre.... was actually saying.

On the contrary, working wages have fallen percipitously since raids and regular deporations have stopped. It hasn't helped us to import unskilled labor; it has cost us more than it's worth to social growth. Racism against Mexicans is bound to grow as the demands for taxpayers to bend over and satisfy their demands and to compete with them for slots in higher education and in the workplace, but, it is predictable. I believe it is already becoming a problem.

There are two major legs holding up America's economy.

One is China: low manufacturing costs + major purchaser of US debt. China sneezes, US markets suddenly drop 400-some points, erasing a lot of gain made recently.

The other is, basically, illegal immigrants. As long as there are illegals willing to work for less, there will be employers willing to pay them less ((and the employers are often ignored or forgotten by people who discuss / rant about illegals)). Illegals, with lower wages, whatever taxes for goods & services that they do pay, etc., end up contributing a hell of a lot more ((memory fails me, but I believe it was several billions to a few tens of billions of dollars)) more than what they suck out and "send home."

Without either of these two factors, the US economy would, at the very least, be in serious danger of outright collapse. No amount of money printed by the mint or adjustments by the ((illegal)) Federal Reserve would be much help.

Sure, the current President isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer, so to speak, but not everyone advising him is stupid. Otherwise, I don't think we would see Bush actually trying diplomacy with Mexico in regards to this issue, let alone with Iran or North Korea. Most likely, it would be a thirty foot fence, with electrified razor wire, Predator drones with Hellfires, minefields, and National Guard units pulled away from the Gulf Coast reconstruction efforts...which would just make America look even more foolish and paranoid than it has been lately.

BTW, I saw a news segment about how the latinos in east LA want to secede and make it a separate latino city. I speak Spanish and was very involved in American Indian sovereignty movements as a kid. Part of the leftist element was the reconquestador movement among the chicanos. This call for a separate city is an expression of that. Mexico lost land to the US, they have been plotting to get it back by attrition. As we are defeated by simply giving up (and Americans are becoming baldfaced defeatists about nearly everything!), they simply take it back. There's no need for assimilation when you are given a pass to stay as Mexican as you always were.

Do you recall the station / date? I would like to see if I can find that. Being Canadian, I have a fair bit of experience with sovereignty movements (First Nations, Quebec, and even to an extent, Newfoundland & Labrador) and how bloody difficult it would actually be for one to succeed without major economic support from outside, which really defeats the whole "sovereign" angle.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I'm concerned about illegals being here and our government doing little or nothing about it, as is its duty under the US Constitution. Whether illegals pay taxes or not is a peripheral issue. As for racism, not all illegals are latinos, but those who are are the most vocal about their entitlements, and racism against them will become more pronounced when people feel threatened by those who take from them what they believe they have haven't rightly earned. The perception by the Mexican government, illegal aliens and their advocates that they are entitled to make demands for taxpayer funded services and special treatment inorder to facilitate their lawbreaking is a contributing factor to the rising prejudice against illegal Mexicans, so they and their government need to reconsider their position, as does ours. I know plenty of Mexican-Americans and other US citizens of latin origin who feel the same way. They are dismayed that so much of this issue is being carried under the banner of "Hispanic rights", as if all Hispanics support rewarding lawbreaking based on race and national origin. Many do not.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Firstly, what legals? This continent was inhabited, and Europeans, in the mad quest for $$$ and power, came in under at best misleading pretenses and took over. Anyone descended from Europeans born in America is descended from illegal immigrants, at least in part.

An irelevant argument. The issues over occupation of the US territory by Europeans has been adjudicated over two centuries and is pretty much settled. American Indian remuniation, Canada and South American issues included, is an area of history and law I cut my teeth on. Conquering those who you can to take what you can is a practice as old as humanity, and certainly not limited to Europeans. Victimization of indigenous peoles by Americans is not a viable position re this issue. What's done is done, and you start where you are now. There's no chance of resettling that again.

That *seems* to be more your personal interpretation of what was posted, and not what notre.... was actually saying.

Stating the obvious. Everything posted in response to anyone is their personal interpretation of what the person you are responding to said, including your comments to me.

There are two major legs holding up America's economy.

One is China: low manufacturing costs + major purchaser of US debt. China sneezes, US markets suddenly drop 400-some points, erasing a lot of gain made recently.

The other is, basically, illegal immigrants. As long as there are illegals willing to work for less, there will be employers willing to pay them less ((and the employers are often ignored or forgotten by people who discuss / rant about illegals)). Illegals, with lower wages, whatever taxes for goods & services that they do pay, etc., end up contributing a hell of a lot more ((memory fails me, but I believe it was several billions to a few tens of billions of dollars)) more than what they suck out and "send home."

Without either of these two factors, the US economy would, at the very least, be in serious danger of outright collapse. No amount of money printed by the mint or adjustments by the ((illegal)) Federal Reserve would be much help.

Sure, the current President isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer, so to speak, but not everyone advising him is stupid. Otherwise, I don't think we would see Bush actually trying diplomacy with Mexico in regards to this issue, let alone with Iran or North Korea. Most likely, it would be a thirty foot fence, with electrified razor wire, Predator drones with Hellfires, minefields, and National Guard units pulled away from the Gulf Coast reconstruction efforts...which would just make America look even more foolish and paranoid than it has been lately.

My concern about illegals in no way precludes my concerns about the entire plan to hose Americans to appease the greed of international corparations. But, do nothing? Say nothing? Take no position other than to bend over and let nature take its course? That seems to be the Canadan position, for sure. Up in Canada, you are being affected by the New World Order Serenity and Prosperity Partnership, as well. Are you aware of that? Or maybe it's ok and there is no need to respond to what's happening. Then, that would be foolish. I know I'm not being paranoid.

Do you recall the station / date? I would like to see if I can find that. Being Canadian, I have a fair bit of experience with sovereignty movements (First Nations, Quebec, and even to an extent, Newfoundland & Labrador) and how bloody difficult it would actually be for one to succeed without major economic support from outside, which really defeats the whole "sovereign" angle.

East LA isn't looking to be sovereign, just a separate city from the rest of LA. Neil Cavuto also did a segment about it on his show today, interviewing an advocate for the move.

[Niels Bohr 72]

and that too costs taxpayers money.

I feel sorry for you that you have somehting against children.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

and that too costs taxpayers money.

I feel sorry for you that you have somehting against children.

Charles eats children.

[brnidokiegurl 0]

Charles IS a child

[Sofiyya 1,687]

[Ban Hammer 13,637]

and that too costs taxpayers money.

I feel sorry for you that you have somehting against children.

still the truth. the truth hurts, eh?

and that too costs taxpayers money.

I feel sorry for you that you have somehting against children.

Charles eats children.

shhh keep quiet about that *hides the bbq sauce*

Charles IS a child

am not! mom! she's picking on me!

[Niels Bohr 72]

Where's your responsibility? It goes to show you lack such attributes. I can only imagine what your kid can become.

"The truth hurts?" What the hell does that have to deal with it?

[Ban Hammer 13,637]

Where's your responsibility? It goes to show you lack such attributes. I can only imagine what your kid can become.

"The truth hurts?" What the hell does that have to deal with it?

funny how you bring up responsibility in a discussion about illegal immigration

try not to burn up your imagination in the meanwhile.

Edited March 15, 2007 by charlesandnessa