my other trump salute thread

[Jacque67 7,328]

You must be kidding right? Please tell me you're kidding. LOL we've been through this before too.

Here you go:

http://www.adl.org/anti-semitism/united-states/

http://www.adl.org/anti-semitism/international/

http://www.adl.org/anti-semitism/muslim-arab-world/

The point is that racism against jews exists in the US, as well as around the world. Yes, I've encountered it personally in VT as well as Boston, as well as several European countries(Poland, Italy and England to name but a few).

I could still say alot about Israel and the Palestinians, but there doesn't seem to be much demand for that or much interest in that area of the world in this forum these days, so again it goes back to not shoving things down people's throats.

But since you brought it up and being I believe it actually has alot to do with both topics I'll leave you with this:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/12160167/Oxford-Universitys-Labour-club-embroiled-in-anti-Semitism-row.html

Oxford University's student Labour club, that was previously a platform for Ed Miliband and Michael Foot, has become embroiled in an anti-Semitism row.

The club's chairman Alex Chalmers has resigned in protest after claiming that its members have "some kind of problem with Jews" and sympathise with terrorist groups like Hamas.

Oxford University Labour Club (OULC), where dozens of former Labour leaders, Cabinet Members and MPs have cut their political teeth, is one of the largest student Labour clubs in the UK.

Mr Chalmers, an undergraduate at Oriel College, said on Monday night that despite the Labour club's "commitment to liberation", it had a "poisonous" attitude toward certain groups.

In a resignation statement publicly posted on Facebook, Mr Chalmers explained that members of the OULC Executive had been "throwing around the term 'Zio' (a term for Jews usually confined to websites run by the Ku Klux Klan) with casual abandon".

Senior members of the club had been "expressing their 'solidarity' with Hamas and explicitly defending their tactics of indiscriminately murdering civilians", he added.

Chalmers said that ever since Labour's defeat at the general election, he had become "increasingly worried about the state of OULC".

He concluded that "a large proportion of both OULC and the student Left in Oxford more generally have some kind of problem with Jews".

Chalmers cited OULCs decision on Monday to endorse Israel Apartheid Week as a reason for his resignation, a movement which he said had "a history of targetting and harassing Jewish students and inviting antisemitic speakers to campuses".

Labour Students, a national student organisation which is affiliated to the Labour Party, said they were "deeply troubled" to hear reports of anti-semitism at "one of our most prominent Labour Clubs".

The organisation said in a statement: "We unequivocally condemn any form of anti-Semitism" adding that it takes the allegations "very seriously."

"We will do whatever is necessary o ensure every Labour Club is a safe space for Jewish Students," a spokesman said.

"We are proud of the long history we have of working with the Union of Jewish Students and the National Union of Students to protect Jewish students on campus and this will always be a top priority for Labour Students."

It comes as the Government revealed proposals to ban local government, public bodies and student unions from boycotting Israel.

Matt Hancock, the Cabinet Office Minister, who will formally announce the change during a visit to Israel this week, has said council bans were "undermining our national security".

Last month, police were called after King's College London's student Israel society was attacked by demonstrators.

Witnesses described a mob throwing chairs and smashing windows, while pictures show officers standing guard outside the building.

Peaceful folks. All they want is peace and justice. The true face exposed and not for the first time. It is easy and convenient for some to believe that it all has to do with Israeli occupation but in fact, it's been proven time and time again there's LOTS of anti semitism involved. Even the recent stabbings and shootings of the last few months in Israel which have killed close to 40 people now(including an American tourist who was stabbed to death in Jaffa just the other day) do not mostly stem from occupation. Examining their life as well as the letters they left shows two things: some of them are extremely religious, do it because they want to kill Jews and go to heaven, and are inspired by Isis. On the other hand some of them are actually middle class and above, had a good life, but again do it because they want to kill Jews.

One more thing,

Quick question: how many black African MPs sat in the South African parliament during the apartheid era?

OK, that one was too easy, I accept. So heres another, and this one only demands a simple Yes/No answer: were all South African citizens, irrespective of colour, guaranteed the right to vote under apartheid? Honestly, these are not trick questions.

Throughout the country, and particularly on our university campuses, it is being suggested that, in moral terms, nothing separates the appalling white supremacist apartheid regime of South Africa with the Israeli state. It was reported yesterday that the Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, had ordered his officials to complain that posters comparing the two regimes had been illegally placed in the London Underground.

Its an old trick frequently used by the hard of thinking: think of a country or person you dont like; think of another, entirely separate, country or person that everyone dislikes, then say that country or person A is the same as country or person B.

Perhaps the protesters and poster-putters-up are too young to remember when apartheid was actually a thing a bit like those youngsters who celebrated the death of Baroness Thatcher, even though they were babes in arms when she was forced out of Downing Street. But being young is no excuse for ignorance of the facts, which are that Israel isnt just a democracy its a social democracy, where women enjoy equal rights, where there exists a flourishing LGBT community, where trade unions are well organised and strong and where the press is unfettered and critical of the government.

But theres no need to take my word for it why dont you ask Arab citizens of Israel which Middle Eastern country they would rather live in? The answer given by 77 per cent in one recent survey was (drum roll, please) Israel.

My, those comparisons with apartheid South Africa just keep on coming, dont they?

But while such lazy analysis can be easily dismissed as evidence that universities really arent giving their students enough coursework to keep them busy, the onslaught against Israel from the broader Left of British politics is real, aggressive and worrying.

Michael Dugher, the former Shadow Culture Secretary who was recently sacked by Jeremy Corbyn, made a speech to a Labour Friends of Israel meeting last year in which he declared: I am proud to call myself a friend of Israel. I am proud to call myself a Zionist.

Even I, a long-term member of Labour Friends of Israel, did a double-take when I read that last line; not because I felt Michael shouldnt have said what he said, but because it was an act of political courage rarely seen on the national stage in this modern era of safety-first soundbite politics. A Zionist, you say? Well, I mean, I support Israel and everything, but isnt that going just a bit too far?

No, its not.

The Left (and some on the Right, but mostly the Left) have succeeded in persuading us that the term refers to West Bank settlers, Israeli imperialists and Palestinian-haters. If youre a Zionist youre a hairs breadth away from a National Front thug, the far Left would have us believe. And here, as in so many areas of life, they are entirely wrong.

Zionism is no more than the movement to re-establish and then protect the state of Israel. A Zionist is someone who defends Israels right to exist. The Labour Party has a long and proud tradition of supporting Zionism, through luminaries such as Richard Crossman and Ian Mikardo up to the present generation. But attempts to redefine Zionism and corrupt its true meaning were always dangerous and threatening to the progressive cause, simply because inevitably such moves would be exploited by genuine anti-Semites.

Yet that hasnt stopped many in the leadership of both the Labour Party and its student movement from associating with such individuals.

When Alex Chalmers, former co-chairman of Oxford university Labour Club,resigned his post, he said: A large proportion of both OULC and the student left in Oxford more generally have some kind of problem with Jews. This includes, he alleged, members of the clubs executive using the word Zio to describe Jewish members of the student faculty. We may assume that the term is used in its new, distorted, derogatory meaning, rather than its true one.

Are we really that surprised? Isnt such behaviour already being passively approved by the national leadership of the Labour Party? Not only do we have a leader who cant even bring himself to utter the word Israel when hes attending a reception organised by Labour Friends of You Know Where. But we also have a leader who calls the terrorist, anti-semitic fanatics of Hamas his friends.

And just last week, on 17 February, Ken Livingstone declared on LBC Radio that in his decades in the Labour Party, he had never come across any anti-Jewish sentiment on the Left. It was radio so we dont know if he was wearing a straight face. This is a man who, as Mayor of London, literally embraced Yusuf al-Qaradawi, a scholar who believes that every Jew in the world is the enemy and that Muslims should not be friends with Jews in general, and Israelis in particular, lest such relationships diminish their appetite for fighting.

So is it really that surprising that in the days following the revelation of obscene bigotry and what appears to be anti-semitism among Labour members at Oxford, not a single Labour front bencher uttered a word about it?

I hope the term Zionist can be retrieved from the lexicon of the hate-spreaders, the ignorant and the anti-semitic.

And I hope, one day, someone unashamed to describe themselves as such will take his or her place at the head of my party.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/12171820/Theres-no-shame-in-Zionism-we-must-reclaim-the-word-from-anti-Semites.html

No. BLM is a group of thugs, the new Black Panthers.

No, there aren't many because we don't sit and whine all day. Some people wanna kidnap the racism *drinks* issue and pretend it only pertains to them. To that I say - cry me a river, there's plenty of ice here that still needs to melt.

umm. Noticed you reading this thread 2 hours ago and then you disappeared. This is the result of 2 hors research. Admire the dedication. Not sure the ideas of a non-American Jew count in this situation. Different upbringing etc. Let me read what you wrote and I will try to respond. Thanks for considering my alma mater btw.

[Jacque67 7,328]

In the interim. As you like na na na ( not maddness(sic))

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=egG7fiE89IU&autoplay=1#

[OriZ 3,157]

umm. Noticed you reading this thread 2 hours ago and then you disappeared. This is the result of 2 hors research. Admire the dedication. Not sure the ideas of a non-American Jew count in this situation. Different upbringing etc. Let me read what you wrote and I will try to respond. Thanks for considering my alma mater btw.

No that didn't take a lot of research, I've already read those articles in the past. Just because I am in the forum doesn't mean I'm always actually present - sometimes I do have other things to do lol.

Well consider this, while technically not an American Jew, I spent ages 4-8 living in Boston, and all of 2008 living in Milwaukee, and been in VT since mid 2013. Not sure what that would have to do with it anyway though.

In the interim. As you like na na na ( not maddness(sic))

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=egG7fiE89IU&autoplay=1#

Not a big fan of Madness, do like my chemical romance though. For 80's I like Reo Speedwagon, Air supply etc. My wife and I actually went and saw REO in concert in 2008, and one of their songs was our wedding song(can't fight this feeling).

[Jacque67 7,328]

No that didn't take a lot of research, I've already read those articles in the past. Just because I am in the forum doesn't mean I'm always actually present - sometimes I do have other things to do lol.

Well consider this, while technically not an American Jew, I spent ages 4-8 living in Boston, and all of 2008 living in Milwaukee, and been in VT since mid 2013. Not sure what that would have to do with it anyway though.

Not a big fan of Madness, do like my chemical romance though. For 80's I like Reo Speedwagon, Air supply etc. My wife and I actually went and saw REO in concert in 2008, and one of their songs was our wedding song(can't fight this feeling).

Well just read your previous post. Your last paragraph was amusing, I must admit. You really should read Howard Jacobsen's book, even though you don't appear to be that much into literature. Re the Israel/Palestine posts, perhaps you should learn to condense your message, make it more readable. Dare I say, go more Trump?

Also post your favourite songs. Don't be a stranger.

[smilesammich 10,727]

The point is that racism against jews exists in the US, as well as around the world. Yes, I've encountered it personally in VT as well as Boston, as well as several European countries(Poland, Italy and England to name but a few).

No, there aren't many because we don't sit and whine all day. Some people wanna kidnap the racism *drinks* issue and pretend it only pertains to them. To that I say - cry me a river, there's plenty of ice here that still needs to melt.

so you state that racism against jews exists around the world and i don't think anyone here would argue that racism against jews is fabricated or is blown out of proportion..as you said you've experienced it.

but then you flip right around and refuse the same acknowledgement in racism towards black people. what do you mean by 'we don't sit and whine all day'? we all come here to post, we all post in topics that interest us personally. the pattern that is particularly prominent in my view is how often the two black posters here are put intentionally on the defensive by constantly having to defend the legitimacy of their own personal experiences. that's not whining. not at all.

if i responded to you by saying that jews by and large own america so obviously there's no way you've encountered racism in vt as well as boston and proceeded to respond to your every comment by telling you your perception of your own life experience is wrong and quit whining, i bet you'd be pretty frustrated and feel a bit disrespected. i would never say that, btw, because i don't actual feel that way - don't go putting half of this response in your signature. okay?

just saying i think all this back and forth is really unnecessary and if we could approach heated topics with a basic respect for other posters' experiences instead of questioning them, we might actually have non-boring convos around here..

[Jacque67 7,328]

so you state that racism against jews exists around the world and i don't think anyone here would argue that racism against jews is fabricated or is blown out of proportion..as you said you've experienced it.

but then you flip right around and refuse the same acknowledgement in racism towards black people. what do you mean by 'we don't sit and whine all day'? we all come here to post, we all post in topics that interest us personally. the pattern that is particularly prominent in my view is how often the two black posters here are put intentionally on the defensive by constantly having to defend the legitimacy of their own personal experiences. that's not whining. not at all.

if i responded to you by saying that jews by and large own america so obviously there's no way you've encountered racism in vt as well as boston and proceeded to respond to your every comment by telling you your perception of s own life experience is wrong and quit whining, i bet you'd be pretty frustrated and feel a bit disrespected. i would never say that, btw, because i don't actual feel that way - don't go putting half of this response in your signature. okay?

just saying i think all this back and forth is really unnecessary and if we could approach heated topics with a basic respect for other posters' experiences instead of questioning them, we might actually have non-boring convos around here..

Val for president! Oriz adviser?

[Jacque67 7,328]

Re the American Jew thing.

I have spent half my life living in Japan. Does this make me Japanese? Can I speak on the behalf of Japanese people? I think the Japanese would beg to differ-lol

[smilesammich 10,727]

i have squandered all of my plus ones.

[OriZ 3,157]

Well just read your previous post. Your last paragraph was amusing, I must admit. You really should read Howard Jacobsen's book, even though you don't appear to be that much into literature. Re the Israel/Palestine posts, perhaps you should learn to condense your message, make it more readable. Dare I say, go more Trump?

Also post your favourite songs. Don't be a stranger.

lol I don't feel a need to post my music. We do mostly country and alternative rock nowadays. My wife mostly country, I do both. We're going to see Rascall Flatts in September. I think Brad Paisley is an incredible artist. There, how's that? lol

[Jacque67 7,328]

lol I don't feel a need to post my music. We do mostly country and alternative rock nowadays. My wife mostly country, I do both. We're going to see Rascall Flatts in September. I think Brad Paisley is an incredible artist. There, how's that? lol

Boo. That means I have to google these bands/singers I have never heard of. Plus I like listening to people's uploaded videos here.

[OriZ 3,157]

Re the American Jew thing.

I have spent half my life living in Japan. Does this make me Japanese? Can I speak on the behalf of Japanese people? I think the Japanese would beg to differ-lol

I don't think there is any difference between how I perceive things and how most American Jews do. Plenty of American Jews will tell you exactly what I said.

so you state that racism against jews exists around the world and i don't think anyone here would argue that racism against jews is fabricated or is blown out of proportion..as you said you've experienced it.

but then you flip right around and refuse the same acknowledgement in racism towards black people. what do you mean by 'we don't sit and whine all day'? we all come here to post, we all post in topics that interest us personally. the pattern that is particularly prominent in my view is how often the two black posters here are put intentionally on the defensive by constantly having to defend the legitimacy of their own personal experiences. that's not whining. not at all.

if i responded to you by saying that jews by and large own america so obviously there's no way you've encountered racism in vt as well as boston and proceeded to respond to your every comment by telling you your perception of your own life experience is wrong and quit whining, i bet you'd be pretty frustrated and feel a bit disrespected. i would never say that, btw, because i don't actual feel that way - don't go putting half of this response in your signature. okay?

just saying i think all this back and forth is really unnecessary and if we could approach heated topics with a basic respect for other posters' experiences instead of questioning them, we might actually have non-boring convos around here..

I think you too, are again, missing the point. Never said I don't acknowledge it exists towards black people. Nor did I ever disrespect or diminish their own experiences.

The whole issue here - and it seems I'm not the only one to have an issue with as others have made similar comments - when people hijack an issue that affects so many around the world and try and make it their own, then turn 90% of their posts into nothing but a rant about that issue(as if there's never anything else to talk about) - we're allowed to feel a little annoyed. Why didn't I comment on that quote in the signature? I must be racist. Only reason people could conceivably not like Obama? They are racists. Only reason anyone would vote for Trump? You guessed right.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying they have to change for us - I'm a huge believer in free speech. At the same time that also means we have a right to express our annoyance with it.

[Jacque67 7,328]

Just googled Brad Paisley - just saw a guy in a Stetson. Interesting... So what do you recommend I listen to of his?

[OriZ 3,157]

Boo. That means I have to google these bands/singers I have never heard of. Plus I like listening to people's uploaded videos here.

[Jacque67 7,328]

I don't think there is any difference between how I perceive things and how most American Jews do. Plenty of American Jews will tell you exactly what I said.

I think you too, are again, missing the point. Never said I don't acknowledge it exists towards black people. Nor did I ever disrespect or diminish their own experiences.

The whole issue here - and it seems I'm not the only one to have an issue with as others have made similar comments - when people hijack an issue that affects so many around the world and try and make it their own, then turn 90% of their posts into nothing but a rant about that issue(as if there's never anything else to talk about) - we're allowed to feel a little annoyed. Why didn't I comment on that quote in the signature? I must be racist. Only reason people could conceivably not like Obama? They are racists. Only reason anyone would vote for Trump? You guessed right.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying they have to change for us - I'm a huge believer in free speech. At the same time that also means we have a right to express our annoyance with it.

Have to call bull to your response to me. You'll always be an outsider in the American Jewish community.

[smilesammich 10,727]

country.

'losering' is dedicated to my great pal donald trump.