Approved for 1-month unpaid internship at an American med school, 214(b) rejection at interview?

[HFM181818 750]

Better to flip burgers in the US than work as a resident doctor in Germany or Turkey?

I appreciate that if the COs didn't view these cases with suspicion then they wouldn't be doing their jobs. Syria is a scary place right now, to say the least, and there are going to be certain assumptions made because of that. I just don't see a request for asylum or overstaying her visa being favorable options considering where she currently stands, and what she stands to lose if she tried it.

If they're just going to take her money without giving her a fair hearing maybe it'd be best if she didn't apply again.

Your assessment as to whether or not she would seek asylum or overstay her visa or run down to the county courthouse with you is not relevant to her next (if any) visa application. It's the CO's assessment that matters. The 'fair hearing' remark is typical when someone is denied - apparently, a fair hearing is one in which the applicant receives a visa. Again, however you viewed her interview did not change the outcome nor will it affect the next application or interview.

When a country's track record using B2 visas is marginal at best, it won't be made any better when much of the country in question is under siege and a huge percentage of the population has been fleeing in record numbers....how in the world could she convince a CO that she will return to a country that has been and is still going downhill fast?

The statistical probability that anyone from Syria would return is way below 1% - how is she different? It is not merely because you think or believe otherwise. Opinions from interested third parties regarding the bona fides of a particular visa applicant are never considered, for good reason.

[KHas 0]

Your assessment as to whether or not she would seek asylum or overstay her visa or run down to the county courthouse with you is not relevant to her next (if any) visa application. It's the CO's assessment that matters. The 'fair hearing' remark is typical when someone is denied - apparently, a fair hearing is one in which the applicant receives a visa. Again, however you viewed her interview did not change the outcome nor will it affect the next application or interview.

When a country's track record using B2 visas is marginal at best, it won't be made any better when much of the country in question is under siege and a huge percentage of the population has been fleeing in record numbers....how in the world could she convince a CO that she will return to a country that has been and is still going downhill fast?

The statistical probability that anyone from Syria would return is way below 1% - how is she different? It is not merely because you think or believe otherwise. Opinions from interested third parties regarding the bona fides of a particular visa applicant are never considered, for good reason.

Re: "fairness," I understand enough to figure that being a visa officer is probably an incredibly thankless job, dealing with an unending stream of disappointed and irate people. I'm not saying they were wrong, I'm saying I'm unfamiliar with the process, which is why I'm here asking about it. According to her telling of what happened, all she was asked at her interview was her name, her job, and her marital status. They showed her my letter, she said truthfully I was a friend she met on the Internet, they told her to wait and came back with the rejection form. Whole thing took less than five minutes. Correct me if I'm wrong, that just seems really abrupt, and it seems clear that *I* was the cut-off point.

I'm guessing by now it's getting to be too late for her to bother trying to apply again in any case, the internship was scheduled for April. Missed chance. I can only hope that this letter snafu won't jump up to bite her in the interview when she goes to match for residency (she doesn't need this to graduate - that was a misconception on my part, and for that I apologize).

By the sound of it, her best option for now would be to try to follow through with the German internship (provided it's still possible), correct? Fortunately the friend who wrote her the invite letter for that one is both female and spent time attending her school, so one can hope she would be able to bring it to the interview without harmful assumptions being made.

From reading both of your replies, though, I feel the need to ask again - you did see the part about how this person is neither living nor studying in Syria? That's the nationality on her passport, but she hasn't set foot there in years. Provided all was said and done in good faith, she would have returned to her school at the conclusion of the internship to finish out her degree, not to Syria. Not going back means not graduating, means not getting a job. Without the USMLE, as best I can tell, you can't get work in the medical field over here more advanced than drawing blood for next to minimum wage (and thank God we have those standards in place). Staying here would throw her whole career in a blender. I've yet to see compelling reason for her *not* to go back to her school, which I guess is why I keep belaboring the point... but my assessment in all this is meaningless, as you've noted.

I don't want to risk sabotaging things more than I think I already have. All jibes about green-card weddings and folk drowning in the Aegean aside, my whole purpose in coming here was to try to get constructive advice for a friend after screwing up her interview, or failing that, get some idea of whether this would negatively impact her in the future. Nothing more.

[Boiler 45,872]

Re: "fairness," I understand enough to figure that being a visa officer is probably an incredibly thankless job, dealing with an unending stream of disappointed and irate people. I'm not saying they were wrong, I'm saying I'm unfamiliar with the process, which is why I'm here asking about it. According to her telling of what happened, all she was asked at her interview was her name, her job, and her marital status. They showed her my letter, she said truthfully I was a friend she met on the Internet, they told her to wait and came back with the rejection form. Whole thing took less than five minutes. Correct me if I'm wrong, that just seems really abrupt, and it seems clear that *I* was the cut-off point.

She completed an application form, if there was other common information required do you not think it would be included?

2.5 million migrants in Turkey last time I heard who seem quite keen to leave, why not her?

[HFM181818 750]

she was asked more than 'name, rank, serial number...'...again, I hear this so often...the applicant who was denied, wants to be free of blame or guilt, so they rewrite history to make it seem that the interviewing process was jaded, abrupt or unfair or whatever....someone applying for this type of visa would have been asked several questions regarding her current level of educational progress, future plans, perhaps a few medical questions to see if she was really a med student....in other words, to see if at least one part of her story/background was true....this fairy tale of being asked 3 meaningless questions (as far as determining visa eligibility) is laughable....oh sure, now we will hear that she has perfect recall, that she and she alone is the most honest person on planet Earth, etc....sorry....I've had numerous interactions with others on this site along the same line, and once I bounce a few thoughts back at them, I later hear about the other questions that were asked....a person applying for this visa and activity is generally speaking, a serious person...that determination needs to be made first (there are a lot of imposters out there!), then the CO assesses immigrant intent...a B1 visa decision is not made based on three basic questions, the answers for which were already on the DS 160....but people keep telling these stories, hoping they will be believed....and that perhaps (I guess) their SO will reach out to some congressman or whoever to question the process and attempt to generate sympathy or ????

The fact that she has been outside of her home country strongly suggests she has no reason to return....again, I am very familiar with the USMLE process (I suppose it has changed a little), and have interviewed tons of applicants who were looking to do the same thing....not all of them got a 'fair hearing' (which means some were denied).

I am fully aware that she is outside of Syria, but presenting a Syrian passport is not a 'plus' today.

As for her career plans being ended if she stays in the US, that is not true...it would merely delay the start of said career, as she would have to transfer credits, then make up the difference in the US as well as fulfilling any other requirements...and doing so in the comfort of, for example, your home, along with a pending green card, is a lot more attractive than working for twenty cents on the dollar in some developing country. Same for seeking asylum....she would be allowed to study, etc, while waiting for that decision (which can take a long time)....lots of reasons to stay here, very few to depart the country at the end of her observer ship.

She is a high risk applicant, across several dimensions......a citizen of a war torn country, a country with few prospects for success, young, single, with an American BF in the wings, and from a country from which asylum is an attractive option. Her observer ship appears to be a means from which she could easily obtain a better life in America....that is the issue. While it may not be 'her fault', so to speak, the fact remains that others from her country are jumping ship (and into others!) 24/7, people who are already educated or professionals, and who are looking for a way out....how could she convince a CO that she is markedly different than those other folks? That's a big hurdle to overcome. And a letter or phone call from you or the school/hospital cannot dissuade a CO from believing otherwise. Sometimes, life is not fair....but....try to put yourself in a CO's shoes (or interviewing window)....you 'know the score', so to speak, of what's going on in Syria or Turkey....and you've heard countless stories from visa applicants...maybe you issued a couple, only to find out that you were duped.....how likely will that happen again?

And BTW, a CO does not have to leave his or her window to 'get the denial letter...' there are hundreds of copies made each morning and set in each interviewing window....the CO might have consulted with another colleague on some point from this interview, but they did not have to go and Xerox a 214b letter.

Edited March 7, 2016 by HFM181818

[TBoneTX 45,825]

*** Thread is moved from Student & Exchange Visitor Visas forum to the Tourist Visas forum. ***

[SigmaLa 0]

Here is some Information about matching into a residency Position as foreign doctor:

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/NRMP-and-ECFMG-Publish-Charting-Outcomes-in-the-Match-for-International-Medical-Graduates-Revised.PDF-File.pdf

Not to burst your bubble, but the chances are slim and it is an uphill battle, due to more and more US med school graduates the international applicants get squeezed out. Also she would need to do rotations at a US hospital to have a valid chance, furthermore its hugely expensive! USMLE Steps + travel costs for interviews could be easly 10.000+$

Edited March 9, 2016 by SigmaLa

[Boiler 45,872]

Here is some Information about matching into a residency Position as foreign doctor:

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/NRMP-and-ECFMG-Publish-Charting-Outcomes-in-the-Match-for-International-Medical-Graduates-Revised.PDF-File.pdf

Not to burst your bubble, but the chances are slim and it is an uphill battle, due to more and more US med school graduates the international applicants get squeezed out. Also she would need to do rotations at a US hospital to have a valid chance, furthermore its hugely expensive! USMLE Steps + travel costs for interviews could be easly 10.000+$

Asylum would be much much simpler and cheaper.

[SigmaLa 0]

^{But she would not be able to work as a doctor in the US.}

Edited March 9, 2016 by SigmaLa

[Boiler 45,872]

If there is a ban on asylees being able to work as Doctors I have never seen it. Nor do believe it is true.

[SigmaLa 0]

If there is a ban on asylees being able to work as Doctors I have never seen it. Nor do believe it is true.

You need a US medical license to work as a physician inside the US. (Some regulation vary across States).

In order obtain a license you need min. finish the intern year of residency and finish the USMLE Exams.

Further Information: http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/about-ama/our-people/member-groups-sections/international-medical-graduates/practicing-medicine.page?

[Boiler 45,872]

You need a US medical license to work as a physician inside the US. (Some regulation vary across States).

In order obtain a license you need min. finish the intern year of residency and finish the USMLE Exams.

Further Information: http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/about-ama/our-people/member-groups-sections/international-medical-graduates/practicing-medicine.page?

It is not easy or cheap to be able to work as a Doctor.

There is nothing banning her if she is up for it.

[SigmaLa 0]

It is not easy or cheap to be able to work as a Doctor.

There is nothing banning her if she is up for it.

I answered regarding you comment that asylum is cheaper and easier. An asylum only allows her to stay inside the US and work.

She is not banned from working as a physician because she is an asylee. She cant work as a physician, because she has no US license. In oder to obtain a license she has to go through the process I pointed out in my previous posts, which is pricy with slim chances to obtain a residency spot.

[Boiler 45,872]

I answered regarding you comment that asylum is cheaper and easier. An asylum only allows her to stay inside the US and work.

She is not banned from working as a physician because she is an asylee. She cant work as a physician, because she has no US license. In oder to obtain a license she has to go through the process I pointed out in my previous posts, which is pricy with slim chances to obtain a residency spot.

So what route would you recommend that gives her the best chance of becoming a Doctor in the US?

[SigmaLa 0]

So what route would you recommend that gives her the best chance of becoming a Doctor in the US?

There is only one route: Take the USMLEs and enter the match. You need to be a very competitive candidate to overcome the international applicant stigma. Additional you need the funds.

[Boiler 45,872]

There is only one route: Take the USMLEs and enter the match. You need to be a very competitive candidate to overcome the international applicant stigma. Additional you need the funds.

So better not to be an international applicant, better to be a domestic applicant?