CNN Republican debate 2/25/2016

[ExPatty 502]

Securing a water border against non-military requires a tiny percentage of the manpower it does to secure land. Hint: Stand on a beach with a pair of binoculars. Notice how far you can see. Now imagine yourself in a fast interceptor craft chasing people down in a fishing boat. This is why even at its peak the number of people on boats/rafts crossing from cuba hit in the low tens of thousands.

Nobody in history who has ever built a wall was under the illusion it was impervious.

[OnMyWayID 1,489]

Securing a water border against non-military requires a tiny percentage of the manpower it does to secure land. Hint: Stand on a beach with a pair of binoculars. Notice how far you can see. Now imagine yourself in a fast interceptor craft chasing people down in a fishing boat. This is why even at its peak the number of people on boats/rafts crossing from cuba hit in the low tens of thousands.

Nobody in history who has ever built a wall was under the illusion it was impervious.

the UK is an island with a natural barrier and still there are tens of thousand of Chinese that sneak in ever year.

Barriers won't fix the problem, laws and the proper execution *can* solve the bulk of the problem because they will not want to be here in the first place.

[ExPatty 502]

the UK is an island with a natural barrier and still there are tens of thousand of Chinese that sneak in ever year.

Barriers won't fix the problem, laws and the proper execution *can* solve the bulk of the problem because they will not want to be here in the first place.

tens of thousands? Thanks for proving my point. Those are numbers we can live with.

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

Securing a water border against non-military requires a tiny percentage of the manpower it does to secure land. Hint: Stand on a beach with a pair of binoculars. Notice how far you can see. Now imagine yourself in a fast interceptor craft chasing people down in a fishing boat. This is why even at its peak the number of people on boats/rafts crossing from cuba hit in the low tens of thousands.

Nobody in history who has ever built a wall was under the illusion it was impervious.

They got a new thing called radar. Can see what binoculars can not .

[OnMyWayID 1,489]

tens of thousands? Thanks for proving my point. Those are numbers we can live with.

But that is just Chinese.. And we are much easier to infiltrate than an island..

I will cave on the wall, even a big beautiful wall, if we can also change and execute the laws..

[ExPatty 502]

But that is just Chinese.. And we are much easier to infiltrate than an island..

I will cave on the wall, even a big beautiful wall, if we can also change and execute the laws..

You got my vote

There is a deep rooted issue with the US. I just see a wall or similar as way we can see meaningful tangible change. But it is a symptom of a problem.

[TBoneTX 46,262]

Just move it back a few hundred yards . We build floodwalls along rivers all the time .

You wouldn't believe how completely private-property rights have been obliterated just to do what's been done. These actions were not just shameful, but shocking and appalling.

[Teddy B 17,252]

So I was having dinner with my mom, my son, his girlfriend, my brother, and my wife - and to set the mood my family thinks of me as just slightly right of Rush Limbaugh and I am the devil reincarnated if I dare suggest we watch something other than MSNBC if we are watching the news. Sitting around the table eating I asked my son and his girlfriend out of the blue "So.. Clinton or Bernie? Tough choice there! Which one are you going to support?"

Naturally my mom butted in and talked about how much she disliked Cruz even more than Trump and then they bad mouthed a few republicans that were out of the race.. anyway they took a few minutes regurgitating everything they had heard on the comedy channel and MSNBC in the last 24 hours before I was able to ask again "Yeah... So.. Clinton or Bernie?" It was dead silence..

It is the same thing in reverse if you ask a group of republicans.. Or a mix of independents.... Everyone *kinda* knows who they are going to vote for but almost nobody wants to admit it. I am exactly there. I can't give a name and not be embarrassed if someone overhears.

It is good to see some of the left and right coming together here to equally bash the candidates on both sides with such free abandon - something finally brought us all together.

Nailed it.

Trump is the candidate, for example, a large number of people will vote for but not admit it to everyone else. "Yeah, he's crazy, how can we vote for this guy? "

....a few hours later at polling booth...

"Hmm, ah here we go, the curtain is up and nobody is watching right? Yeah, okay, what the heck, a check for Trump then I guess, why not."

The fact that so many people just "know" that he's crazy as heck but are voting for him is proof to me about how political correctness has suppressed the public discourse. It's somewhat like the hypocrisy over masturbation. You might do it, but you'll never admit it.

Both of these posts are spot on and exactly how I feel as well.

[Teddy B 17,252]

I think a wall is not a terribly difficult thing to build.. I have no doubt it can be done.

I also think tunnels and explosives and battering rams and wire cutters and jet-skis and boats are also easily build-able or obtainable. If the government is serious about controlling immigration they will make it extremely difficult to earn money here if you are not here legally. They do that by having extremely steep penalties for hiring illegal workers, make reporting the activity easy (and offer big rewards for doing so) and quickly following up on any reported activity.

We will have companies whining and using scare tactics talking about prices going up and they will be right - but then if the product they produce isn't worth paying a living wage to produce they should be making something else. Also this is how innovation comes into practice - at the start of the civil war states that had slaves had economies that were on average one tenth the size of states where it was illegal. Free labor did not build anything, it stunted growth everywhere it was. Where labor costs were higher they were an order of magnitude more efficient and pulling away.

I think Sanders has it half right here - by raising tariffs on items made by cheap labor (and basing it on labor costs) he can force other companies in other parts of the world to pay a higher wage and level the playing field not by lowering our standard of living but by forcing others to raise theirs by giving the workers a larger share of the profits... That formula depends on controlling immigration so that cheap labor does not happen on the home soil - neither party is suggesting an even slightly realistic solution on that portion. I don't have faith in a wall to do that - not on its own anyway.

Edit: Sorry it got a bit soapbox-ish

Should I be concerned that you and I are thinking alike?

[ExPatty 502]

You wouldn't believe how completely private-property rights have been obliterated just to do what's been done. These actions were not just shameful, but shocking and appalling.

I did read it's a lot of work dealing with property rights because basically to build a wall you need to annex a minimum distance inside the border, since walls are not built on borders, but within countries.

You could also make an effective "wall" by ditching the wall idea and putting guard towers every so often including a lot more surveillance (drones, cameras). Objectively that's probably smarter anyway and more flexible.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

A wall is flat out stupid, ineffective and inefficient. To say nothing of ugly, and requires a ton of private property.

The solution is to tighten up the laws in place and hold employers accountable for illegal workers. And to make it possible for actual work migration for jobs suitable for things like farming to be able to take place.

A wall is a symbol of the Brown fear affliction too many Americans harbor.

[TBoneTX 46,262]

Yep; however, the Powers That Were ran roughshod over a bunch of Federal laws (for example, environmental and animal-protection) to build the wall portions that are there.

I've never heard whether the (interesting) guard-tower idea was considered. Perhaps it wasn't authorized in the Federal legislation regarding the fence. There might also be concerns about illegal surveillance of U.S. citizens, although that has probably never stopped the government before.

The existing wall/fencing, everywhere that I've seen it, is indeed very, very ugly.

There might already be provisional visas for farm labor. If I were in charge of All Things, I'd issue a finite number of those visas, with the clear understanding that for every recipient who "disappeared" or didn't return from the U.S., 100 other migrants -- selected at random from that work crew -- would lose their visas, forfeit their pay, and receive a permanent ban from re-entry. Peer pressure might be stronger than most other influences.

[ExPatty 502]

The solution is to tighten up the laws in place and hold employers accountable for illegal workers. And to make it possible for actual work migration for jobs suitable for things like farming to be able to take place.

Well I can speak for everyone in this thread and say we all know that will never happen.

That's why people like me want a wall, because everybody else will whine and cry and moan about being racist any time we try and actually enforce laws against illegal immigrants. Meanwhile they are getting licenses (drivers', professional, etc.), free educations, free health care etc. ad infinitum.

The US is too weak to enforce its own laws because its leadership lacks leadership. Hence, wall.

Trump says it will cost $12B. If you spend all that on more drones and guys in watch towers, I'm fine with that, too.

I spent years in the south. That joke about driving by home depot and picking up mexicans is based in literal truth. I regularly drove along a road full of people everybody knew to be illegal migrants from mexico. We knew it, the cops knew it. Nobody cared, nobody did a thing. Nobody ever will.

[smilesammich 10,727]

Well I can speak for everyone in this thread and say we all know that will never happen.

That's why people like me want a wall, because everybody else will whine and cry and moan about being racist any time we try and actually enforce laws against illegal immigrants. Meanwhile they are getting licenses (drivers', professional, etc.), free educations, free health care etc. ad infinitum.

The US is too weak to enforce its own laws because its leadership lacks leadership. Hence, wall.

Trump says it will cost $12B. If you spend all that on more drones and guys in watch towers, I'm fine with that, too.

I spent years in the south. That joke about driving by home depot and picking up mexicans is based in literal truth. I regularly drove along a road full of people everybody knew to be illegal migrants from mexico. We knew it, the cops knew it. Nobody cared, nobody did a thing. Nobody ever will.

the reason "nobody did a thing, nobody ever will' is because the rich play by their own rules. if they get caught hiring illegal workers (funny, right) they pay a fine and move on.

why you think a wall is going to stop rich people from getting their cheap labor is beyond me.

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

A wall is flat out stupid, ineffective and inefficient. To say nothing of ugly, and requires a ton of private property.

The solution is to tighten up the laws in place and hold employers accountable for illegal workers. And to make it possible for actual work migration for jobs suitable for things like farming to be able to take place.

A wall is a symbol of the Brown fear affliction too many Americans harbor.

I love it when Democrats get concerned about taking taking away the hard earned gains of citizens. It may single a shift

As for your brown fear. We don't care where they come from. Its about illegally being in our country not the skin color.

Why does the left make anything and everything about race. It's like freaking O- blood. It's the universal donor. Anything you don't agree with. Scream racism

the reason "nobody did a thing, nobody ever will' is because the rich play by their own rules. if they get caught hiring illegal workers (funny, right) they pay a fine and move on.

why you think a wall is going to stop rich people from getting their cheap labor is beyond me.

or liberals from getting votes and giving them free stuff. You left out the other part of the equation. We are getting it from both sides