Looking for Solid Advice from the Big Dogs

[Gregory&Dyn 113]

If you've read my previous posts, you know our story and you've seen the movie. I will wrap up the last 2 years in a nutshell so I can get to the point.

Dyn (Philippines beneficiary) recently completed her annulment. Her case was cleared by the OSG and returned to the provincial court in Bohol last week.

She now has the following documents in hand.

• Official provincial court / judge's decision
• Entry of Judgment from local court
• Certificate of Finality (from local court)

In true Philippines fashion, the process took us right up to within a week of our two-year deadline. Dyn sent the necessary documents to me via FedEx and I am expecting delivery here in the states on Wednesday, 17 February 2016. Great, right? Nope! We last saw each other on 21 February 2014 when we departed ways at Ninoy Aquino International Airport in Manila.

QUESTIONS

1. Does the two-year period begin on the day we last saw each other, or the day we first saw each other?
2. Will USCIS consider the postmarked date of the I-129F envelope (in relation to the deadline) or the day the package is received / filed by them?
3. If the package is shipped / received two or three days after the end of the two-year deadline, does that make it a deal breaker?

BUT WAIT. THERE'S MORE!

Up until now, we have been advised that we are safe in submitting only the documents listed above with the I-129F. In the interim, Dyn will begin processing through the LCR and NSO for her annotated marriage certs and her Final Declaration of Nullity. Recently, a little birdie told me that USCIS changed their policy almost two years ago, and they now require the annotated marriage certs / Declaration of Nullity from the LCR and NSO to be submitted with the I-129F. Well, Damn!

Can anybody please elaborate on this and confirm / deny?

Give me some peace of mind regarding this issue, and I will buy you lunch and a beer. Of course, you need to live within driving distance.

Edited February 16, 2016 by Gregory&Dyn

[Hypnos 6,576]

1) The last day.

2) Received by them.

3) Yes.

[Dohan 133]

You would look at your most recent meeting (Feb 2014). I would suggest to submit whatever you have ASAP and then deal with an RFE if it even comes

[Hank_ 9,174]

If you've read my previous posts, you know our story and you've seen the movie. I will wrap up the last 2 years in a nutshell so I can get to the point.

Dyn (Philippines beneficiary) recently completed her annulment. Her case was cleared by the OSG and returned to the provincial court in Bohol last week.

She now has the following documents in hand.

• Official provincial court / judge's decision
• Entry of Judgment from local court
• Certificate of Finality (from local court)

In true Philippines fashion, the process took us right up to within a week of our two-year deadline. Dyn sent the necessary documents to me via FedEx and I am expecting delivery here in the states on Wednesday, 17 February 2016. Great, right? Nope! We last saw each other on 21 February 2014 when we departed ways at Ninoy Aquino International Airport in Manila.

QUESTIONS

1. Does the two-year period begin on the day we last saw each other, or the day we first saw each other?
2. Will USCIS consider the postmarked date of the I-129F envelope (in relation to the deadline) or the day the package is received / filed by them?
3. If the package is shipped / received two or three days after the end of the two-year deadline, does that make it a deal breaker?

BUT WAIT. THERE'S MORE!

Up until now, we have been advised that we are safe in submitting only the documents listed above with the I-129F. In the interim, Dyn will begin processing through the LCR and NSO for her annotated marriage certs and her Final Declaration of Nullity. Recently, a little birdie told me that USCIS changed their policy almost two years ago, and they now require the annotated marriage certs / Declaration of Nullity from the LCR and NSO to be submitted with the I-129F. Well, Damn!

Can anybody please elaborate on this and confirm / deny?

Give me some peace of mind regarding this issue, and I will buy you lunch and a beer. Of course, you need to live within driving distance.

Let us start with this: MUST BE FREE TO MARRY AT TIME OF APPLICATION. Could you get married in the Philippines without the PSA (NSO) annotated CEMAR ?

USCIS requires evidence that both of you are free to marry at the time of filing, their are some that slipped by USCIS only to get caught at USEM by missing that requirement and have their file sent back to USCIS.

Having met within two years of filing: This would be the last date that you were both together plus the 2 year requirement.

How does USCIS calculate the two years, is it the date you mailed the forms or the RECEIVED date? I am going with the received date, it is the only date that is confirmed. This is just my opinion.

Edited February 16, 2016 by Hank_

[Ryan H 3,812]

**Duplicate threads merged; do not start multiple threads on the same subject.**

[Greenbaum 12,259]

We must of been the last ones who were able to file our 129f while waiting for annotated marriage certificate. By the time the interview rolled around we had everything signed, sealed and delivered and not having to wait. I'm afraid this is going to take some additional time. Stay positive. You'll get through this.

[cristina16 81]

USCIS changed their policy almost two years ago, they now require the annotated marriage certs / Declaration of Nullity from the LCR and NSO to be submitted with the I-129F - NOT True. Just submit, COPIES of decision, certificate of finality/ entry of judgement with your I-129F.

There is no declaration of nullity from PSA/NSO, they will only issue annotated MC.

[Hank_ 9,174]

USCIS changed their policy almost two years ago, they now require the annotated marriage certs / Declaration of Nullity from the LCR and NSO to be submitted with the I-129F - NOT True. Just submit, COPIES of decision, certificate of finality/ entry of judgement with your I-129F.

There is no declaration of nullity from PSA/NSO, they will only issue annotated MC.

Question. With just those documents you mentioned are you free to marry in the Philippines? Or would you need the PSA annotated MC to get a marriage license?

[Gregory&Dyn 113]

Question. With just those documents you mentioned are you free to marry in the Philippines? Or would you need the PSA annotated MC to get a marriage license?

You will absolutely, 100% require the annotated marriage certificate(s) from the LCR (Local Civil Registrar) and the NSO (National Statistics Office before you can get married.

The documents we have in hand [Court decision / Entry of Judgment / Certificate of Finality) are need to file the I-129F with USCIS. This is all post-OSG, and pre-NSO.

Before Dyn's interview at the Embassy in Manila, she will be required to have her annotated marriage certificate in hand.

Bear in mind, depending where the annulment takes place, you may need to record the annulment with the LCR in the same district where the court resides, and in the district where the marriage took place.

[Hank_ 9,174]

Then legally both of you are not free to marry at the time of the petition filing.

Just an FYI: USEM knows this and has noticed when the dates don't jive, sending the petition back to USCIS... DENIAL. You may slip by.

Section 7.

https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/files/form/i-129finstr.pdf

[Hank_ 9,174]

USCIS changed their policy almost two years ago, they now require the annotated marriage certs / Declaration of Nullity from the LCR and NSO to be submitted with the I-129F - NOT True. Just submit, COPIES of decision, certificate of finality/ entry of judgement with your I-129F.

There is no declaration of nullity from PSA/NSO, they will only issue annotated MC.

Can you provide a link to the USCIS that states what you are "selling"? If you can not get married in the Philippines with just the "decision, certificate of finality/ entry of judgement" then a person is not free to marry.

Section 7

https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/files/form/i-129finstr.pdf

[Kay&Tony 3]

At least have the Annotated MC from LCR where the marriage took place. We sent the LCR annotated MC to USCIS along with the Decision & Entry of Judgement.

In our case, the place where marriage took place was different from where the court is situated.

I personally hand-carried the annulment papers to the LCR of where the court is situated. Process took 1 day. They will prepare all the documents that your fiance will need to forward to the LCR where the marriage took place, plus her personal copy of the same.

She will then need to go to the LCR where the marriage took place and submit the documents. After 3-days to a week, she will then have the Endorsement Letter addressed to PSA, the necessary documents to be sent to PSA via LBC, plus they will provide her a copy of the LCR annotated MC--this you can then submit with your I-129 petition

Hope this helps.

[cristina16 81]

While you are sleeping..

Thank you for sending the link on 1-29F; I studied that myself over and over. I did 90% of the work on our process not just relying everything to my USC fiancé. So I know the guidelines by heart.

Guys, we always say here do not over think this whole process. Instructions are plain and simple. Goodness! You are making my brains work; do we need a lawyer to interpret legality? I am done with annulment bruhaha!

Before questioning my answer- is there a policy that USCIS specifically asked annotated MC or CENOMAR from NSO/ PSA for I 1-29F filing? NONE - therefore my answer is correct. That was the question of OP; if there was one on the guideline I didn’t see it- I have not read it over a period of months that I am studying the process. WOW! How did I miss that. My I-129 F has no Cenomar attached.

There was NO specifics on the requirements. The requirement is BOTH ARE LEGALLY FREE TO MARRY. Keyword- LEGALLY. Legally is totally different from all the bureaucracy and nitty-gritty to get a marriage license wherever you are in the world.

This is plain and simple and logical. The question is " both are legally free to marry"; you are questioning if with the declaration and final judgement is the person is legally to marry? ABSOLUTELY YES! The question is legality, legality was already given by the court with the dissolution of marriage. The court has the only authority to declare dissolution of marriage not PSA/ NSO.

Evidence all prior marriages has been terminated - may include divorce decree, or an annulment or death certificate issued by a competent civil authority - in case of annulment this is being granted by the Court by issuing Certificate of Finality/ Entry of Judgement signed by a Judge. Irrevocable.

That is the only evidence asked by USCIS. Now, if you wanted to give more docs- do so; but again those are not necessary.

Hey by the way if you are divorced abroad and a Philippine Citizen do they require a Cenomar or an annotated MC for I-129F process as well?? A foreign marriage should be registered with the Phil consulate – you are dully married in the Phils and your MC will appear at PSA/ NSO records. Now with the divorce abroad if not duly reported at Phil Consulate and no annotated MC was issued – are you not legally free to marry? Of course you are! You can get married even if you are a Philippine citizen wherever you want. Because a divorce decree or an entry of judgment of a Nullity of Marriage are declaring a person legally free to marry.

It was not also mentioned, are you legally free to marry on a specific country- locality, ethnic groups, religious order. Overall- Legally free to marry was already given by the court with the Certificate of Finality signed by the judge. Annotate MC and Cenomar are only implementing the dissolution of marriage on public records; thus we process with LCR/ NSO/ PSA. Legality of the dissolution or nullity of marriage was already given by the court records.

By the way a divorce or an annulment is not being recognized by the any Catholic church in the PH, even with an annulment if you are married in the church you are still married by church rules. Now does that make you NOT legally free to marry? Of course not, Church and Legality of your annulment had no direct link because by Judicial Authority your marriage was declared ab initio.

Now on the requirements of NSO annotated MC or Cenomar.

Scenario 1: a single person, never married and wanted to get married in the Philippines. Marriage License Requirement: Cenomar, among others.

Scenario 2: Previously married, annulled, divorced, widow - Marriage License Requirement: Cenomar among others.

Scenario 1 - are they legally free to marry? YES yet, they were asked for Cenomar.

Scenario 2: are they legally free to marry? YES yet, they were asked for Cenomar.

These are requirement if you are getting married in the country but it doesn’t mean that if you don’t have it you are not legally free to marry.

Cenomar is a specific document required only if you will get married in the Philippines. CENOMAR is specifically asked by US Embassy upon K1 application NOT during I-129 F process and the ANNOTATED MC is not a requirement for K1 application; US Embassy is not asking for annotated MC during the interview with the annulment documents – My annotated MC was not asked anywhere in the process.

[Gregory&Dyn 113]

As luck would have it, and in true Philippines fashion, the release of the Entry of Judgement and Certificate of Finality from the court in Bohol took us right into the final week of our two year window (meeting in the past two years). Dyn FedExed the documents to me immediately upon receipt. Unfortunately, the documents were delivered to my door the day before the deadline. It seems everything we discussed in this thread is a moot point now, at least for us. To file now would most certainly mean an RFE, at the very least.

Our new plan: I will travel to the Philippines at the end of March for a few days and reset our two-year window. Dyn already has the annotated MC from the LCR, and she forwarded the necessary documents to the NSO in Manila via LBC. We can only hope that the NSO / PSA does their part and issues the CENOMAR before I arrive. It would give us great peace-of-mind to have all of our ducks in a row before filing the I-129F. Either way, after I return home from the Philippines, I will file immediately with the confidence and security that we did it right.

Cristina16: You rock! Seriously. You have been a guiding light over the past month. Your wisdom, insight, and experience have been blessings. Thank you. For years to come, new VJ'rs will read this thread, and hopefully they get the same sound advice that Dyn and I did.

To the rest of you who took time to respond, and offer your advice: Thank you. You are the backbone of this community. You are appreciated.

[cristina16 81]

As luck would have it, and in true Philippines fashion, the release of the Entry of Judgement and Certificate of Finality from the court in Bohol took us right into the final week of our two year window (meeting in the past two years). Dyn FedExed the documents to me immediately upon receipt. Unfortunately, the documents were delivered to my door the day before the deadline. It seems everything we discussed in this thread is a moot point now, at least for us. To file now would most certainly mean an RFE, at the very least.

Our new plan: I will travel to the Philippines at the end of March for a few days and reset our two-year window. Dyn already has the annotated MC from the LCR, and she forwarded the necessary documents to the NSO in Manila via LBC. We can only hope that the NSO / PSA does their part and issues the CENOMAR before I arrive. It would give us great peace-of-mind to have all of our ducks in a row before filing the I-129F. Either way, after I return home from the Philippines, I will file immediately with the confidence and security that we did it right.

Cristina16: You rock!

Seriously. You have been a guiding light over the past month. Your wisdom, insight, and experience have been blessings. Thank you. For years to come, new VJ'rs will read this thread, and hopefully they get the same sound advice that Dyn and I did.

To the rest of you who took time to respond, and offer your advice: Thank you. You are the backbone of this community. You are appreciated.

As luck would have it, and in true Philippines fashion, the release of the Entry of Judgement and Certificate of Finality from the court in Bohol took us right into the final week of our two year window (meeting in the past two years). Dyn FedExed the documents to me immediately upon receipt. Unfortunately, the documents were delivered to my door the day before the deadline. OUCH!!! IRONICALLY, You don't need the original- a scanned copy will do for filing I 129F.

Again everything is moot.. ahahhaha.. Even if have known that, I will say as stated above. Good luck to you and Dyn.