Obtaining a Ukrainian passport from abroad

[Leo7777 243]

A few people here have commented on the situation of dual citizenship for Ukrainians.

Apparently there is a 'law' prohibiting it.

Some have said this 'law' is unconstitutional, has not a 'leg to stand on', don't worry about it, the authorities don't care, etc., etc.

This is all a bit murkey to me.

A 'law' is valid unless the Constitutional Court of Ukraine says it is unconstitutional, not just because private citizens think it is unconstitutional.

So who can point us to the case wherein the Court ruled this 'law' is unconstitutional?

And, as to those who say 'they' (officials) can't do anything about it (having two passports, one Ukrainian plus another), you will feel pretty shocked if the Passport control people in Ukraine take one away from you.

Sure you can raise a fuss, and maybe even get it replaced . . . several months down the road; but it will really screw the he!! out of your current trip, getting in and out of Ukraine and USA.

[Nisilsin 4]

A few people here have commented on the situation of dual citizenship for Ukrainians.

Apparently there is a 'law' prohibiting it.

Some have said this 'law' is unconstitutional, has not a 'leg to stand on', don't worry about it, the authorities don't care, etc., etc.

This is all a bit murkey to me.

A 'law' is valid unless the Constitutional Court of Ukraine says it is unconstitutional, not just because private citizens think it is unconstitutional.

So who can point us to the case wherein the Court ruled this 'law' is unconstitutional?

And, as to those who say 'they' (officials) can't do anything about it (having two passports, one Ukrainian plus another), you will feel pretty shocked if the Passport control people in Ukraine take one away from you.

Sure you can raise a fuss, and maybe even get it replaced . . . several months down the road; but it will really screw the he!! out of your current trip, getting in and out of Ukraine and USA.

I have to admit that your concerns are legitimate, but in most practical terms, I doubt the problems will ever materialize. I have heard of numerous accounts of Ukrainian dual citizens functioning just fine in Ukraine, with no actual issues.

Does it mean this will never happen? Knowing Ukraine, I suppose anything can happen, but I consider the chances to be low enough that it won't keep me up at night.

The fact is that there is indeed a conflict in how dual citizenship is treated in different Ukrainian laws. There is a law outlawing it, and there is a law that makes outlawing illegal. Someone more motivated could check the exact laws and paragraph numbers, but I don't really care to be honest.

What remains fairly certain (not just for Ukraine, but most countries) is that whichever passport you enter with, that's the citizenship you are assuming while you are in that country. For example, if I enter Ukraine with a Ukrainian passport, technically I would not have the privilege of accessing the services of the Canadian embassy should the need arise (my other citizenship is Canadian). I would be considered a Ukrainian citizen and nothing else.

There was a news story recently about a dual Turkish-Canadian citizen who got caught up in some troubles in Turkey and was arrested. Canadian officials were powerless to offer any real help because he entered Turkey with his Turkish passport. You can expect the same consequences no matter where you go, and it's one of the biggest considerations when choosing which passport to use to enter a country.

For dual Ukrainian-American citizens, there is indeed a choice, as the American passport holders do not need a visa to enter. Your American passport is the property of the government of the United States and I'm pretty sure Ukrainian officials would need some extremely solid reasons to attempt to withhold it. It would be easier for them to find an excuse to take away your Ukrainian passport (since again, it's the property of the government, not the individual), but I still suspect the chances of that are around zero. Unless you commit some other serious crime, of course, and the court orders to seize your passport.

As noted in this thread, for most people the biggest draw is not the unrestricted access to Ukraine, but visa free access to countries like Russia. I have a hard time imagining that Russian border guards care what Ukrainian laws say about dual citizens. Russian laws don't have issues with dual citizens of any kind.

That said, it is disconcerting that the situation with Ukrainian dual citizens is so confusing. However, I can also appreciate that the country and its lawmakers have lots of other things to worry about and try and work out. I would be pleasantly surprised if this gets a clear resolution in less than 10 years from now.

By then I'd be applying for my passport renewal

Edited August 22, 2016 by Nisilsin

[Leo7777 243]

I have to admit that your concerns are legitimate, but in most practical terms, I doubt the problems will ever materialize. I have heard of numerous accounts of Ukrainian dual citizens functioning just fine in Ukraine, with no actual issues.

Does it mean this will never happen? Knowing Ukraine, I suppose anything can happen, but I consider the chances to be low enough that it won't keep me up at night.

The fact is that there is indeed a conflict in how dual citizenship is treated in different Ukrainian laws. There is a law outlawing it, and there is a law that makes outlawing illegal. Someone more motivated could check the exact laws and paragraph numbers, but I don't really care to be honest.

What remains fairly certain (not just for Ukraine, but most countries) is that whichever passport you enter with, that's the citizenship you are assuming while you are in that country. For example, if I enter Ukraine with a Ukrainian passport, technically I would not have the privilege of accessing the services of the Canadian embassy should the need arise (my other citizenship is Canadian). I would be considered a Ukrainian citizen and nothing else.

There was a news story recently about a dual Turkish-Canadian citizen who got caught up in some troubles in Turkey and was arrested. Canadian officials were powerless to offer any real help because he entered Turkey with his Turkish passport. You can expect the same consequences no matter where you go, and it's one of the biggest considerations when choosing which passport to use to enter a country.

For dual Ukrainian-American citizens, there is indeed a choice, as the American passport holders do not need a visa to enter. Your American passport is the property of the government of the United States and I'm pretty sure Ukrainian officials would need some extremely solid reasons to attempt to withhold it. It would be easier for them to find an excuse to take away your Ukrainian passport (since again, it's the property of the government, not the individual), but I still suspect the chances of that are around zero. Unless you commit some other serious crime, of course, and the court orders to seize your passport.

As noted in this thread, for most people the biggest draw is not the unrestricted access to Ukraine, but visa free access to countries like Russia. I have a hard time imagining that Russian border guards care what Ukrainian laws say about dual citizens. Russian laws don't have issues with dual citizens of any kind.

That said, it is disconcerting that the situation with Ukrainian dual citizens is so confusing. However, I can also appreciate that the country and its lawmakers have lots of other things to worry about and try and work out. I would be pleasantly surprised if this gets a clear resolution in less than 10 years from now.

By then I'd be applying for my passport renewal

This is not quite so simple as some may make it sound.

When a person leaves Ukraine, they will want to know where you are going and how you are going to get into that country.

If you show your Ukrainian passport (let's assume you have USA also) upon leaving, they will notice there is no USA visa to get into USA. Then you will have to show your USA passport; thus revealing for sure your dual citizenship.

Or turn it around, if you show your USA passport upon entry and exit, they can check through the Ukrainian data base and find that you have Ukrainian passport also.

In either case, you will be entered in their data base as having dual citizenship.

Or try to enter Ukraine on Ukrainian passport and leave on USA passport; and they will note there is no entry stamp in your USA passport, also raising problems.

Now, what does it matter that you are in the dual citizenship data base?

Suppose the Ukrainian citizen owns real estate in Ukraine. There are restrictions on who can own certain types of real estate in Ukraine, particularly raw land or farm land.

Even as some claim the law against dual citizenship is not valid, there could be he!! to go through for such a person if another party or government official wanted to cause trouble for the person and try to take the land away. This sort of thing (not necessarily with dual citizenship) happened with great frequency during the Yanokovich reign.

Now many will say they have no such land, so no worries. But there are probably many who may at some point inherit such land, etc., from grandparents, parents, etc.

Also, even for buy and sell of non-restricted property in Ukraine, there can be different rules, taxation, etc., for citizens vs non citizens.

Again, not to be alarmist, but there is more to consider here than may first come to your mind.

Edited August 22, 2016 by Leo7777

[Nisilsin 4]

This is not quite so simple as some may make it sound.

When a person leaves Ukraine, they will want to know where you are going and how you are going to get into that country.

...

Or try to enter Ukraine on Ukrainian passport and leave on USA passport; and they will note there is no entry stamp in your USA passport, also raising problems.

...

Suppose the Ukrainian citizen owns real estate in Ukraine. There are restrictions on who can own certain types of real estate in Ukraine, particularly raw land or farm land.

...

Also, even for buy and sell of non-restricted property in Ukraine, there can be different rules, taxation, etc., for citizens vs non citizens.

Of course, when it comes to things like this, it's rarely simple.

Generally speaking, border guards at exit points, especially in airports, do not care if you have permission to enter the country you are going to, only that you were in their country legally. Verifying your eligibility to enter the destination country is the job of the airline agents. When travelling with two passports, one has to take care to show the correct passport to the correct authorities. Generally, when dealing with border guards - as opposed to airline employees - you show them the passport that allows you to be in their country. So it really better be the same one whether you're coming or leaving, otherwise they will rightfully get confused.

The other nuance is that when you check in to your flight they ask for your passport info. This is where you may end up using different passports on different legs of your journey. For example, suppose you are flying New York to Kyiv and have both an American and a Ukrainian passports.

• You check in at the airline counter in the New York airport with a Ukrainian passport.
• You show the customs officer at the security checkpoint your American passport.
• You board the plane and show your Ukrainian passport.
• You get off the plane and clear customs in Kyiv with your Ukrainian passport.
• When you are ready to leave, you check in at the Kyiv airport with your American passport.
• You show the customs officer your Ukrainian passport.
• You board the plane and show your American passport.
• You land and clear customs with your American passport.

Now, there is some flexibility here in terms of showing the airline crew in New York either your American or Ukrainian passport because both allow visa free entry into Ukraine. However, if you check in using a different passport than what you eventually show border guards at the destination you may have slight delays because the passenger manifest data provided by the airline to the government will have you listed with a different passport. It ranks pretty low in terms of things that can cause serious trouble, but it's still a bit of a hassle.

I know it's not quite what you asked, but I'm just putting it out there for anyone who decides to go ahead and get a second passport. Stay away from preventable issues.

It might be different for land borders, but I don't have much experience with those.

...

As for restrictions and different treatments for citizens vs non-citizens, that's definitely a concern, and it's worth pointing out that having a passport is one thing, but being a citizen is another. I did not magically obtain my Ukrainian citizenship upon applying for a passport - I've had it all along since August 24 1991 and never seized being a Ukrainian citizen. A passport just acts as proof that one is indeed a citizen. The millions of Americans who never bother applying for an American passport are still American citizens.

The other important consideration is residency. For many special kinds of properties and financial instruments, it can make an even bigger difference than citizenship. If you plan to engage in those kinds of activities, you have to careful consider what laws apply to those activity in all the countries where you are a citizen and all countries where you are a resident (depending on conditions, you may be considered a resident of more than one country at a time, you don't even have to be a citizen of any of them).

So yes, once you get deeper into this, it's not exactly simple and clear cut, and you may want to carefully consider what is the best approach for your situation.

But as for the basic question of, can you get a Ukrainian passport if you are living abroad and obtained another citizenship since leaving Ukraine? Yes, it's possible and it's actually rather uncomplicated.

[Leo7777 243]

Not quite the same topic, but somewhat related:

Yesterday, spouse and I were at a social event where several couples were there from various countries.

One person had Russian passport and was here on H1B visa. The spouse had Georgian passport and was on accompanying spousal H1B visa.

They wanted to travel to Russia for Georgian spouse to meet family of Russian spouse.

So he applied for Russian tourist visa at their embassy here in USA.

Russia denied and told that he must travel back to Georgia and apply at Russian embassy in Georgia.

[Neonred 3,579]

Not quite the same topic, but somewhat related:

Yesterday, spouse and I were at a social event where several couples were there from various countries.

One person had Russian passport and was here on H1B visa. The spouse had Georgian passport and was on accompanying spousal H1B visa.

They wanted to travel to Russia for Georgian spouse to meet family of Russian spouse.

So he applied for Russian tourist visa at their embassy here in USA.

Russia denied and told that he must travel back to Georgia and apply at Russian embassy in Georgia.

Wife and I know from past dealings with them that the Russian embassy in DC is not helpful at all and very uncaring.

I suppose one can say it is typical Russian customer service.

[P99163 0]

If you show your Ukrainian passport (let's assume you have USA also) upon leaving, they will notice there is no USA visa to get into USA. Then you will have to show your USA passport; thus revealing for sure your dual citizenship.

That is true, but I heard they don't care about that as much as they did in the past. Ten years ago, they indeed wanted to see a visa for the destination country. I feel this is one of the main reasons dual citizens almost exclusively use their US passports to enter Ukraine (myself included).

Or turn it around, if you show your USA passport upon entry and exit, they can check through the Ukrainian data base and find that you have Ukrainian passport also.

This, on the other hand, has never been an issue for me or for anyone I know. As a matter of fact, most "foreigners" entering Ukraine are Ukrainian emigrants who, I suppose, are still citizens of Ukraine. The immigration officers simply don't care. In my case, my Ukrainian name is different from the US one, so even if they wanted to cross-check their database, they would not find me. As far as I know, they haven't yet implemented facial recognition system at ports of entry

Edited September 8, 2016 by P99163