Little Factoids and why America is in Trouble

[smilesammich 10,727]

How significant? Answer that question. Do you believe in over half? I don't.

on what amount of annual income? i mean, how many actual people in this country bring in upwards of ten million per year?

[Teddy B 17,252]

on what amount of annual income? i mean, how many actual people in this country bring in upwards of ten million per year?

Flat tax on everyone who makes 50K or more with no tax havens and very strict penalties for anyone or any company who moves their money overseas should take care of most of it. Note, the 50K number is just a number and can be adjusted as needed.

[OriZ 3,157]

on what amount of annual income? i mean, how many actual people in this country bring in upwards of ten million per year?

In principle, do you believe that a person making 10 million a year or 300 million a year should give more than half of their own money to the government? I don't.

[smilesammich 10,727]

In principle, do you believe that a person making 10 million a year or 300 million a year should give more than half of their own money to the government? I don't.

10 million to 300 million per year? yeah. sure. you say 'give half their own money to the government' like there's a huge percentage of individual earners that fall into this category. like the working class is being robbed by the government. that isn't what's happening. the working class is being robbed by the elite AND the government, considering the elite owns the government.

Flat tax on everyone who makes 50K or more with no tax havens and very strict penalties for anyone or any company who moves their money overseas should take care of most of it. Note, the 50K number is just a number and can be adjusted as needed.

yeah, much much higher than 50k to start..

[Expat1 971]

I think it is enough to eliminate the laundry list of deductions that favor the rich and leave the brackets alone.

[Expat1 971]

10 million to 300 million per year? yeah. sure. you say 'give half their own money to the government' like there's a huge percentage of individual earners that fall into this category. like the working class is being robbed by the government. that isn't what's happening. the working class is being robbed by the elite AND the government, considering the elite owns the government.

yeah, much much higher than 50k to start..

Only 0.3% of taxpayers earn over a million dollars.

[Teddy B 17,252]

I think it is enough to eliminate the laundry list of deductions that favor the rich and leave the brackets alone.

That would certainly make a huge difference. The dream of a flat tax is just that, a dream, it will never happen. Too many people will lose jobs, it would eliminate over 50% of the IRS alone, not to mention how many accountants would end up flipping burgers.

[OriZ 3,157]

10 million to 300 million per year? yeah. sure. you say 'give half their own money to the government' like there's a huge percentage of individual earners that fall into this category. like the working class is being robbed by the government. that isn't what's happening. the working class is being robbed by the elite AND the government, considering the elite owns the government.

yeah, much much higher than 50k to start..

It doesn't matter if it's only one person. Do you believe that that person should give more than half of their hard earned money to the government? You're deflecting.

[smilesammich 10,727]

It doesn't matter if it's only one person. Do you believe that that person should give more than half of their hard earned money to the government? You're deflecting.

actually, i'm not deflecting because i already answered you. YES I DO. hard earned money my ###.

[OriZ 3,157]

Sorry but the government does not own the people. It doesn't deserve more than half of what they make.

[smilesammich 10,727]

Sorry but the government does not own the people. It doesn't deserve more than half of what they make.

i think we have a completely different basis for what constitutes ownership and 'the people'.

and a huge, massive part of the problem - is that the people no longer own the government. not anywhere close. it isn't 'ours' anymore.

[Expat1 971]

Sorry but the government does not own the people. It doesn't deserve more than half of what they make.

It's a little misleading, with the progressive brackets, to say anyone would ever pay the maximum tax bracket on everything they make. The 1st 10 mil are taxed at a lower rate than the second 10 mil. I don't agree with raising the tax brackets either but I also think that if you want a second home you should buy it out of your pocket and not be able to deduction the interest on it. I also think that untaxed assets, upon death, should hold their original value, not reset to current value when they are passed on to your idle relatives.

I also believe that the capital gains tax rate is too low. It is claimed that the capital gains is on money that is already taxed but that's BS. Even Buffet has admitted that capital gains are compounded and the more money you have the less income is taxed as "income". I guarantee you that capital gains are NOT earned from hard work, they are earned from the backs of the people working in the companies that you've invested in. I don't believe that their (employees) tax rates and the tax rates of the people who earn money off of their backs should be any different.

i think we have a completely different basis for what constitutes ownership and 'the people'.

and a huge, massive part of the problem - is that the people no longer own the government. not anywhere close. it isn't 'ours' anymore.

The bailouts are. It makes me furious that this money was given to banks to be loaned out to people who already worked and paid taxes for that money then get the privilege of borrowing it from banks and paying it again. That's BS. FDR fed money into the economy in the form of wages. The chief slaveowner in Washington loaned it out and small wonder there has been no increase in cash circulation in the last 8 years. At the least if they wanted to circulate more cash they would have bought out the deskful of bonds that constitute the entire social security system.

Edited February 5, 2016 by Expat1

[OriZ 3,157]

It's a little misleading, with the progressive brackets, to say anyone would ever pay the maximum tax bracket on everything they make. The 1st 10 mil are taxed at a lower rate than the second 10 mil. I don't agree with raising the tax brackets either but I also think that if you want a second home you should buy it out of your pocket and not be able to deduction the interest on it. I also think that untaxed assets, upon death, should hold their original value, not reset to current value when they are passed on to your idle relatives.

I also believe that the capital gains tax rate is too low. It is claimed that the capital gains is on money that is already taxed but that's BS. Even Buffet has admitted that capital gains are compounded and the more money you have the less income is taxed as "income". I guarantee you that capital gains are NOT earned from hard work, they are earned from the backs of the people working in the companies that you've invested in. I don't believe that their (employees) tax rates and the tax rates of the people who earn money off of their backs should be any different.

The bailouts are. It makes me furious that this money was given to banks to be loaned out to people who already worked and paid taxes for that money then get the privilege of borrowing it from banks and paying it again. That's BS. FDR fed money into the economy in the form of wages. The chief slaveowner in Washington loaned it out and small wonder there has been no increase in cash circulation in the last 8 years. At the least if they wanted to circulate more cash they would have bought out the deskful of bonds that constitute the entire social security system.

I definitely agree on the second home, and in general, I am not in favor of loopholes and deductions, I think it only complicates matters and is why almost no one can do their own taxes without any help.

How high do you think the capital gains tax should be? I disagree it is not hard work. Maybe to some, like if all you do is invest it in an ETF and forget about it for 30 years. But those of us that actually have to analyze stocks to invest in, or traders like me - trust me it is a very hard and demanding job, maybe not physically but sure is mentally and with the amount of hours you have to put into it. To be honest it is probably one of the most demanding jobs out there, and let me assure you I am not a spoiled kid from a rich home saying that - I have worked hard jobs in my life including as a waiter - as well as still working with my wife in her shop. My wife herself has had a very rough life including raising 3 kids on her own working 3 different jobs and still feeding them with only $500 a month. All that led to her suffering to this day from several autoimmune diseases(plus the fact she was abused as a child and as an adult in a past relationship) as well as several spinal issues, which is the reason we decided to open our own shop as she couldn't be told anymore by anyone else when to sit down(like I said before we have our own flower shop and at times I will help with deliveries if I am not busy with the market or if we're extremely busy and I will do some of the deliveries which include driving for hours sometimes in blizzard like conditions). But ask her now that she's seen what I do and even she will tell you it is very, very hard. But I don't expect most people to get that - people just think you sit at home in your AC and click your mouse and become rich in a day. It took me 10 years to get us to the point we are at today, with many struggles along the way, for us, together and separate, during and before. But we didn't give up like some(not all) do and then just expect a handout.

Personally I think capital gains should be taxed like any other income - based on how much you made that year and not just a flat percentage. If I only made 10,000 this year in the market I shouldn't pay the same tax as someone who made 100,000.

I was and always will be against bailouts.

[TBoneTX 45,303]

The central fact remains that the government is entitled to none of the money that we earn.

Edited February 5, 2016 by TBoneTX

[OriZ 3,157]

The central fact remains that the government is entitled to none of the money that we earn.

Well that would be ideal, but I get that it's never going to happen so I'll take what I can get.