Invitation letter (again) for a B2 visa

[RobertM54 36]

I was chatting with a travel agent in Ukraine looking for help for my girlfriend to fill out her DS 160.

The agent told me that an invitation letter is helpful to the process.

I explicitly mentioned this is a B2.

There are a lot of threads (including a couple I initiated) that say there is nothing I can do to help the B2.

Any idea what the travel agent is thinking?

Is Ukraine different?

[Transborderwife 4,666]

It's a common misconception

[dwheels76 5,468]

I was chatting with a travel agent in Ukraine looking for help for my girlfriend to fill out her DS 160.

The agent told me that an invitation letter is helpful to the process.

I explicitly mentioned this is a B2.

There are a lot of threads (including a couple I initiated) that say there is nothing I can do to help the B2.

Any idea what the travel agent is thinking?

Is Ukraine different?

Many a agent and even lawyers believe a heartfelt invitation from a Citizen will somehow sway the CO at embassy. But a girlfriend coming from Ukraine is highly unlikely at best.

Think about it you write I the boyfriend want to invite my girlfriend to US I will pay all expenses she will stay with me XX # of days weeks.

What will you produce as evidence to assure the CO that you won't marry and she stay? What reasons does she have to go back? She has a US Citizen boyfriend. See the dilemma.

She has to qualify on her own merit and show strong ties to her country.

Edited January 16, 2016 by dwheels76

[HFM181818 750]

As a retired CO, I can promise you that an invitation letter has as much positive value in a B2 interview as a roll of toilet paper.

It is important to understand that 99% of the time, a CO does not care why the applicant wishes to go to the US, but rather why the applicant will leave the United States after a visit of appropriate duration.

The more 'fluff' a BF or GF gives to their significant other to present to a CO during their B2 interview, the worse the chances of success for the applicant.....because all of that window dressing only tells the CO why the applicant has stronger reasons to remain in the US rather than leave the US.

Yet, for some reason(s), people continue to believe that an invitation letter will weave a web of belief in the CO's eyes, that the CO will stop asking pointed questions and merrily issue a visa.....I suppose that occasionally that has happened (but NOT with the COs I personally trained!!!), but in reality, sympathy is not something that a good, well informed, well-trained CO should fall prey to....but instead, that individual should block the sympathy feelings, properly engage empathy, but remember why the CO has been given the authority they have....which is to adjudicate visa applications according to the law, not according to what some third party believes, to listen, to ask questions, to evaluate, in as dispassionately as possible, but bringing every bit of education, life experience, knowledge of the host country, immigration law, and other skills to the forefront and render a decision.....from the outside, it may well look a whole lot different....and of course, there are very good COs, good ones, average ones and poor (rather than bad, but sadly, a few have been bad) ones....but the job has an aspect to it like no other....and the better COs understand what tremendous responsibility and authority they have and mete out that authority as best they can, and NOT be influenced by input from interested third parties.

At times, it can be tough...demanding....but it should not ever be confusing...and uncertainty is the enemy.....a good CO backs his or her judgment to the limit....because at the end of the day, no matter who may be happy or unhappy with that CO's decisions, the CO should go to bed at night knowing that they have been making those decisions according to all the information they have and their own assessment skills and abilities.

To do this 100-150 times a day, 5 days a week, for a year or more, takes considerable stamina and mental reserves to avoid burnout, heavy handedness, or to stop listening and thinking, especially when working in developing countries, in which lying, cheating or stealing is culturally acceptable in order to get a US visa.

[RobertM54 36]

Thanks for that.

When applying for a Schengen Visa for Western Europe, a lot of emphasis is placed on the applicants ability to pay for her trip.

This seems to be not so much the case for a B2 Visa. It seems like that if the petitioner can convince the CO that she is going to return home, the question of how the trip is financed is not so important.

[JFH 12,190]

Exactly.

Different countries, different approaches.

[Anh map 2,098]

As a retired CO, I can promise you that an invitation letter has as much positive value in a B2 interview as a roll of toilet paper.

It is important to understand that 99% of the time, a CO does not care why the applicant wishes to go to the US, but rather why the applicant will leave the United States after a visit of appropriate duration.

The more 'fluff' a BF or GF gives to their significant other to present to a CO during their B2 interview, the worse the chances of success for the applicant.....because all of that window dressing only tells the CO why the applicant has stronger reasons to remain in the US rather than leave the US.

Yet, for some reason(s), people continue to believe that an invitation letter will weave a web of belief in the CO's eyes, that the CO will stop asking pointed questions and merrily issue a visa.....I suppose that occasionally that has happened (but NOT with the COs I personally trained!!!), but in reality, sympathy is not something that a good, well informed, well-trained CO should fall prey to....but instead, that individual should block the sympathy feelings, properly engage empathy, but remember why the CO has been given the authority they have....which is to adjudicate visa applications according to the law, not according to what some third party believes, to listen, to ask questions, to evaluate, in as dispassionately as possible, but bringing every bit of education, life experience, knowledge of the host country, immigration law, and other skills to the forefront and render a decision.....from the outside, it may well look a whole lot different....and of course, there are very good COs, good ones, average ones and poor (rather than bad, but sadly, a few have been bad) ones....but the job has an aspect to it like no other....and the better COs understand what tremendous responsibility and authority they have and mete out that authority as best they can, and NOT be influenced by input from interested third parties.

At times, it can be tough...demanding....but it should not ever be confusing...and uncertainty is the enemy.....a good CO backs his or her judgment to the limit....because at the end of the day, no matter who may be happy or unhappy with that CO's decisions, the CO should go to bed at night knowing that they have been making those decisions according to all the information they have and their own assessment skills and abilities.

To do this 100-150 times a day, 5 days a week, for a year or more, takes considerable stamina and mental reserves to avoid burnout, heavy handedness, or to stop listening and thinking, especially when working in developing countries, in which lying, cheating or stealing is culturally acceptable in order to get a US visa.

The above should be inscribed on a gold plaque and posted at the VJ front door.

[HFM181818 750]

Travel agents or 'visa consultants' are worthless...they offer 'advice' to would be applicants, sometimes help them 'create' supporting documentation, etc....however, the only person these clowns have to fool is....the idiot who would take or pay for their advice or documents!

For me, fake docs and tear jerking invitation letters were a source of amusement rather than taken seriously. One of the things I liked best about being a CO was the sheer enjoyment of identifying the fraudsters, whether they thought themselves experts of same or just those who thought they were more clever than I was.....it is hard to imagine how quickly I could pluck these people from the crowd....yet they kept coming back....I've had applicants who, after being denied, shouted at me, 'I paid $X for those papers, so you should look at them!!'....and as for stories or sympathy generating letters....well, those were a dime a dozen....bona fide applicants generally speaking don't have to try so hard to be convincing...because statistically they are not acting....but actors have 'tells'....in body language, in their irrational answers, in their zeal to get those documents through the window so I will look at them and hand over a visa....sure.....I did not adjudicate B2 visas based on paper evidence (or, I should say, I did not approve visas based on documents, but denied thousands that were based on fake papers, and unbelievable stories.

I had thousands of applicants waving their invitation letters from 'friends', inviting them to a wedding or birthday party or house warming.....really? Someone from a third world country is going to spend 5 years salary for a two week trip to the US to attend one of the above? That would represent their life savings (on average)....who in the world would do that? Of course, some of those invite letters 'promised' to pay the freight of the applicant....and maybe it was true some percentage of the time....but the problem with that is this: if the 'friend' really was going to front the cash for the trip, most certainly they want to be repaid, so....the B2 applicant plans to work while 'visiting' to pay off the vacation loan given to him (or her).....ask yourselves this question: in the past five years, how many of you have shelled out thousands of dollars for airfare, for food and entertainment, for some random distant relative or 'friend' so he or she could visit you for 2 weeks? I doubt even one person out there in VJ land has ever done this....now, maybe for a fiancé.....but a 'family friend' or 'cousin?'....no way, at least, not on planet earth.

I derived immense enjoyment figuring out who was trying to fool and who wasn't...it was like a game, but I had the advantage....and some of the stories told to me were beyond belief....

[Dave&Roza 748]

.....ask yourselves this question: in the past five years, how many of you have shelled out thousands of dollars for airfare, for food and entertainment, for some random distant relative or 'friend' so he or she could visit you for 2 weeks? I doubt even one person out there in VJ land has ever done this....now, maybe for a fiancé.....but a 'family friend' or 'cousin?'....no way, at least, not on planet earth.

I derived immense enjoyment figuring out who was trying to fool and who wasn't...it was like a game, but I had the advantage....and some of the stories told to me were beyond belief....

I must be strange or maybe stupid , but I paid the airfare and all expenses for a women to visit me from Kazakhstan, twice. The first time was a gamble, but the second time was for a girlfriend. I had met her in person a couple of years before, so I knew her and had an idea of what I was getting into. So I guess she would not really be considered random, but it was a calculated risk that I am happy to say has paid off quite well as we have been married for the past 5 years.

Dave

[dwheels76 5,468]

Travel agents or 'visa consultants' are worthless...they offer 'advice' to would be applicants, sometimes help them 'create' supporting documentation, etc....however, the only person these clowns have to fool is....the idiot who would take or pay for their advice or documents!

For me, fake docs and tear jerking invitation letters were a source of amusement rather than taken seriously. One of the things I liked best about being a CO was the sheer enjoyment of identifying the fraudsters, whether they thought themselves experts of same or just those who thought they were more clever than I was.....it is hard to imagine how quickly I could pluck these people from the crowd....yet they kept coming back....I've had applicants who, after being denied, shouted at me, 'I paid $X for those papers, so you should look at them!!'....and as for stories or sympathy generating letters....well, those were a dime a dozen....bona fide applicants generally speaking don't have to try so hard to be convincing...because statistically they are not acting....but actors have 'tells'....in body language, in their irrational answers, in their zeal to get those documents through the window so I will look at them and hand over a visa....sure.....I did not adjudicate B2 visas based on paper evidence (or, I should say, I did not approve visas based on documents, but denied thousands that were based on fake papers, and unbelievable stories.

I had thousands of applicants waving their invitation letters from 'friends', inviting them to a wedding or birthday party or house warming.....really? Someone from a third world country is going to spend 5 years salary for a two week trip to the US to attend one of the above? That would represent their life savings (on average)....who in the world would do that? Of course, some of those invite letters 'promised' to pay the freight of the applicant....and maybe it was true some percentage of the time....but the problem with that is this: if the 'friend' really was going to front the cash for the trip, most certainly they want to be repaid, so....the B2 applicant plans to work while 'visiting' to pay off the vacation loan given to him (or her).....ask yourselves this question: in the past five years, how many of you have shelled out thousands of dollars for airfare, for food and entertainment, for some random distant relative or 'friend' so he or she could visit you for 2 weeks? I doubt even one person out there in VJ land has ever done this....now, maybe for a fiancé.....but a 'family friend' or 'cousin?'....no way, at least, not on planet earth.

I derived immense enjoyment figuring out who was trying to fool and who wasn't...it was like a game, but I had the advantage....and some of the stories told to me were beyond belief....

HFM181818 Man I like you. Everything you post, I repost in my African Wives group. You have helped shade some light on some very "suspect" relationships and marriages. Ad for that I thank you for your candidness and insight

[HFM181818 750]

I must be strange or maybe stupid , but I paid the airfare and all expenses for a women to visit me from Kazakhstan, twice. The first time was a gamble, but the second time was for a girlfriend. I had met her in person a couple of years before, so I knew her and had an idea of what I was getting into. So I guess she would not really be considered random, but it was a calculated risk that I am happy to say has paid off quite well as we have been married for the past 5 years.

Dave

While you had some knowledge of the second person, I doubt you have opened the white pages from some other country, flipped to a random page, pointed a finger at a name, then invited that person to the US on your dime!!!!! (and it sounds like in each instance, the person being invited was a possible GF, not a cousin or distant friend).

The point is that when some of these applicants offered their invitation letters to me as some sort of 'proof' that John or Jane Doe were going to shell out a bucket of money so that the applicant could attend a 2 year old's birthday party or some other equally 'who cares' event, well, in real life, most people don't have the resources to do that. And if they did, it is doubtful that one of the people on their short list of invitees lives in some third world country!

Glad the second one worked out.

[RobertM54 36]

ask yourselves this question: in the past five years, how many of you have shelled out thousands of dollars for airfare, for food and entertainment, for some random distant relative or 'friend' so he or she could visit you for 2 weeks? I doubt even one person out there in VJ land has ever done this....now, maybe for a fiancé.....but a 'family friend' or 'cousin?'....no way, at least, not on planet earth.

Actually, I would think it would be pretty common if the visa could be had. First off, it is not thousands of dollars. Round trip air fare to a lot of places is less than a thousand dollars or less than 50,000 frequent flier miles. Expenses once my guest is in the USA can be nominal.

In my case, when I consider time off from work, apartment or hotel, in country transfers; it is far more expensive for me to go see her than for her to come see me. Add to that lack of vacation time, and the difficulty building an international relationship where the USC is the one who flies all of the time is compounded. In my particular situation, I have a lot more money than I have time.

Absent the B2 visa, we will eventually sign letters of intent to marry and she has not even seen her prospective new home. Then if she gets here and it does not work out and either she goes home or I send her home, it is strike one in the wonderful world of K-1 Visas.

From my perspective, it would be very nice if the CO could expand his or her perspective from a semi adversarial interaction with a young Ukrainian women to realize there is a silent third party in this interaction. I am a law abiding and productive American boyfriend who would like to see my girl more often than my vacation allotment allows. The girl is (so far) is following all of the rules and is very well vetted in her home country. My understanding is that there is almost zero chance the CO will approve this B2 visa application.

Comparing this situation to the chaos that reins on our southern border is extremely depressing to me.

[Neonred 3,562]

....ask yourselves this question: in the past five years, how many of you have shelled out thousands of dollars for airfare, for food and entertainment, for some random distant relative or 'friend' so he or she could visit you for 2 weeks? I doubt even one person out there in VJ land has ever done this....now, maybe for a fiancé.....but a 'family friend' or 'cousin?'....no way, at least, not on planet earth.

We have...twice. Once for my wife's uncle she had not seen in many years, and for a friend of my wife. Money wasn't a big deal.

Now that I think about it there was a third friend.... Two of these people I thought would NEVER qualify for a visa, but they were successful.

But I do believe your post is for the most part very true and correct.

My wife is always telling me so and so needs an invitation to visit us. Instead of arguing I just go ahead and write it. Much easier that way.

Edit to add: I do believe showing a history of foreign travel is a big plus, however my wife's uncle and one friend did not have that to show. One from Russia and one from Kyrgyzstan.

Edited January 16, 2016 by Neonred

[Avery Cates 1,141]

realize there is a silent third party in this interaction. I am a law abiding and productive American boyfriend who would like to see my girl more often than my vacation allotment allows.

Completely irrelevant to the visa issuance process.

[HFM181818 750]

Completely irrelevant to the visa issuance process.

it matters not how 'law abiding' some USC claims to be....has no effect on the decision making process. You cannot control the actions of someone who enters the US legally (or illegally, for that matter!).

It is not the COs' fault, however generous or stingy they may be doling out visas.....the fact remains that far too many young, single people from even second world countries forget to return far too often....the infamous change of mind (but often actually planned, IMHO) at baggage claim because there is no meaningful oversight of B2 visa holders once admitted only makes focused COs that much more focused on judging immigrant intent....and what strong, overwhelming reasons an applicant has for returning to their country (while bombs are dropping???) versus the reasons to stay put....from the Ukraine, the choice is pretty easy. Who in their right mind would return to what's going on? Very very few....and even fewer who latched onto an American BF.

Edited January 16, 2016 by HFM181818