Should college fire hijab-wearing professor?

[JayJayH 546]

this isn't true. there are entire congregations that believe any parent who allows their daughters to show their knees (or wear pants), are not proper christians.

I stand corrected as far as wording goes.

Difference is, nowhere, not in Hollywood, not in mainstream media, not by politicians is dress-wearing promoted as an inherent, natural part of expressing "Christian identity" in any way. Nowhere is it celebrated as "diversity." If a Jewish professor wore a long, black skirt to show solidarity with everyday Christians, it would send all the wrong signals.

If Hollywood decided it needed a "Christian character" to show diversity, and they deliberately had this character wear a long, black dress.. You get where I'm going.

Edited January 15, 2016 by JayJayH

[smilesammich 10,727]

I stand corrected as far as wording goes.

Difference is, nowhere, not in Hollywood, not in mainstream media, not by politicians is dress-wearing promoted as an inherent, natural part of expressing "Christian identity" in any way. Nowhere is it celebrated as "diversity." If a Jewish professor wore a long, black skirt to show solidarity with everyday Christians.. You get where I'm going..

well, there's no need to show solidarity for everyday christians in this country. and a skirt definitely wouldn't mean a thing, you're right.

but i don't think she's loosing her job for the hijab, she's loosing her job for saying christians and muslims worship the same god. i've read the mission statement or whatever from that college's website and she simply doesn't fit in with their particular brand of christianity. she's too liberal. plain and simple.

Jesus taught us to stand in solidarity with those being oppressed and persecuted," Hawkins said while a guest on my SiriusXM radio show recently.

Hawkins said she was especially concerned that because women of the faith are easily identified by their hijabs as Muslim-American, they suffer the brunt of the hate. "Jesus commands us to walk a mile in the shoes of our brothers and sisters, who are suffering," Hawkins commented.

Hawkins decided to wear a hijab for a few weeks in early December to go beyond words of support. "This is something I can do for Muslim sisters who are in danger every day," Hawkins remarked.

Hawkins, who said she has loved teaching at Wheaton for the past nine years, noted that she received widespread support from area Christian and Muslim communities to her display of solidarity. But then the problems began.

In an effort to foster understanding between the faiths, she said, Hawkins posted on Facebook that Muslims and Christians "worship the same God." She also wrote of standing with her Muslim brother and sisters in their time of need.

That was apparently too much for some. She received angry responses to the post, some racial in nature, she said, primarily from people in the Christian community. The complaints grew to the point that Hawkins was called to the Wheaton College provost's office to be questioned about her posting.

[JayJayH 546]

well, there's no need to show solidarity for everyday christians in this country. and a skirt definitely wouldn't mean a thing, you're right.

but i don't think she's loosing her job for the hijab, she's loosing her job for saying christians and muslims worship the same god. i've read the mission statement or whatever from that college's website and she simply doesn't fit in with their particular brand of christianity. she's too liberal. plain and simple.

I won't argue the college's stated reason for firing her.

As far as a showing of solidarity goes however, I think she should have a reality check and ask herself whether or not she's contributing to stigmatizing Muslim women. Which I would absolutely say she is.

Edited January 15, 2016 by JayJayH

[smilesammich 10,727]

she's contributing to stigmatizing Muslim women. Which I would absolutely say she is.

how?

[JayJayH 546]

how?

How would wearing a long black dress to show solidarity with Christians not stigmatize Christians?

Rather than trying to promote Muslim women as "everyday Americans" like you and me, she's saying "Muslims wear hijabs. They're different than American Jews, Christians, Buddhists and Hindus. Let's celebrate it."

[ExPatty 502]

it's not inconsistent at all and i don't see where i'm disagreeing with myself. it might appear that way because my personal beliefs on religion are not rational if i tried to apply it to the entire world, you're right there. i want to press a button and have religion 'poof - be gone' and that is never going to happen.

i maintain that all religion is equally horrid and equally worthless because religion is unnecessary. a person does not need a personal theology to be a good, moral person. it's make believe. it's make believe that gives people permission to do horrible things if they're of the mind to. and yet, the opposite is also true. there are very good religious people that help instead of harm others. those people, far outnumber those that use religion as a prop for their own crazy or agenda. but that speaks to the nature of humanity - not religion.

it's really just the reality of having a negative personal opinion about something so large and historically & culturally acceptable that it doesn't fit into the 'real world'. the real world is full of religion, full of people brainwashing their kids with religion so the cycle never ends..religion is here for the foreseeable future.

Your belief is itself a belief, that in turn requires faith in the absence of overwhelming data (which is also what a religion asks). Everybody has a belief system.

this isn't true. there are entire congregations that believe any parent who allows their daughters to show their knees (or wear pants), are not proper christians.

And I would ask you if you see that view as equally horrid to somebody who doesn't believe that, but we know how you'd answer it.

[smilesammich 10,727]

How would wearing a long black dress to show solidarity with Christians not stigmatize Christians?

Rather than trying to promote Muslim women as "everyday Americans" like you and me, she's saying "Muslims wear hijabs. They're different than American Jews, Christians, Buddhists and Hindus. Let's celebrate it."

no one would even know the wearer of the long black dress was attempting to show solidarity via a skirt..so, it wouldn't stigmatize christians at all.

are her intentions to show that muslim women are everyday americans? i thought her intentions were to suffer, to walk a mile in a hijab wearer's shoes. the way i understood the article she wants to put herself in their position, to understand their suffering.

[smilesammich 10,727]

Your belief is itself a belief, that in turn requires faith in the absence of overwhelming data (which is also what a religion asks). Everybody has a belief system.

And I would ask you if you see that view as equally horrid to somebody who doesn't believe that, but we know how you'd answer it.

yes, everyone has a belief system. but not all belief systems require faith.

do i think it's horrid to raise little girls in long skirts, to make them sexual long before they're aware that knee caps are a sexual thing? lol. yeah. it's horrible. it ruins people. i have close family members that believe just that. raised their daughters that way. and they are, raising their own in the same manner. never ending cycle.

[JayJayH 546]

no one would even know the wearer of the long black dress was attempting to show solidarity via a skirt..so, it wouldn't stigmatize christians at all.

are her intentions to show that muslim women are everyday americans? i thought her intentions were to suffer, to walk a mile in a hijab wearer's shoes. the way i understood the article she wants to put herself in their position, to understand their suffering.

I think we're arguing two different things from two different angles. Her intentions as stated are to suffer, I think she's going down a counter-productive, slippery path of equating Muslim women with the hijab.

yes, everyone has a belief system. but not all belief systems require faith.

do i think it's horrid to raise little girls in long skirts, to make them sexual long before they're aware that knee caps are a sexual thing? lol. yeah. it's horrible. it ruins people. i have close family members that believe just that. raised their daughters that way. and they are, raising their own in the same manner. never ending cycle.

Hijabs, long skirts. Same thing, different book.

One is being actively pushed as a garment to celebrate in the name of religious and cultural diversity. One is not.

Edited January 15, 2016 by JayJayH

[smilesammich 10,727]

I think we're arguing two different things from two different angles. Her intentions as stated are to suffer, I think she's going down a counter-productive, slippery path of equating Muslim women with the hijab.

Hijabs, long skirts. Same thing, different book.

One is being actively pushed as a garment to celebrate in the name of religious and cultural diversity. One is not.

i guess don't understand why you say the hijab is being actively pushed as a garment to celebrate diversity. if this wasn't her intention..

[JayJayH 546]

i guess don't understand why you say the hijab is being actively pushed as a garment to celebrate diversity. if this wasn't her intention..

To make it clear, I do question the college's stated reason for for firing her.

From the article:

"Hawkins decided to wear a hijab for a few weeks in early December to go beyond words of support. "This is something I can do for Muslim sisters who are in danger every day," Hawkins remarked."

That's the scary part. Her intention was to support American Muslims. I would argue that she unintentionally does the opposite.

"For us, as mainstream Muslim women, born in Egypt and India, the spectacle at the mosque was a painful reminder of the well-financed effort by conservative Muslims to dominate modern Muslim societies. This modern-day movement spreads an ideology of political Islam, called “Islamism,” enlisting well-intentioned interfaith do-gooders and the media into promoting the idea that “hijab” is a virtual “sixth pillar” of Islam, [...]"

"To us, the “hijab”is a symbol of an interpretation of Islam we reject that believes that women are a sexual distraction to men, who are weak, and thus must not be tempted by the sight of our hair. We don’t buy it. This ideology promotes a social attitude that absolves men of sexually harassing women and puts the onus on the victim to protect herself by covering up."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2015/12/21/as-muslim-women-we-actually-ask-you-not-to-wear-the-hijab-in-the-name-of-interfaith-solidarity/

If we want to "normalize" mainstream Islam and rid American Muslims of stigma associated with how Islam is interpreted in vast swathes of the Middle East and even Europe, I think the media is going down a very slippery by trying to "include Muslims as people who wear hijabs."

"Hussain's win was widely seen as a triumph of British multiculturalism. And by regularly showing a headscarf-wearing Muslim woman outside the context of hate crimes, terrorism or politics, The Bake Off is part of a small but significant shift in how hijab-wearing women were represented on TV in 2015."

http://www.npr.org/2016/01/01/461490153/in-2015-tv-broke-ground-by-showing-relatable-women-in-hijab

I obviously don't think headscarves should be associated solely in the context of terrorism - But in the context of an outdated, misogynistic, religious (and now political) practice, yes.

Edited January 15, 2016 by JayJayH

[smilesammich 10,727]

To make it clear, I do question the college's stated reason for for firing her.

From the article:

"Hawkins decided to wear a hijab for a few weeks in early December to go beyond words of support. "This is something I can do for Muslim sisters who are in danger every day," Hawkins remarked."

That's the scary part. Her intention was to support American Muslims. I would argue that she unintentionally does the opposite.

how is that scary, exactly? anyway, if she had other motives or not, she doesn't seem to fit with the school.

[JayJayH 546]

how is that scary, exactly? anyway, if she had other motives or not, she doesn't seem to fit with the school.

So..

From a culturally liberal view, the goal is to not associate mainstream Islam with conservative, Saudi / Iranian style Islamism (Be it Sunni or Shia). Correct?

From a culturally liberal view, the goal is to accept and include Muslims as fully integrated members of Western society, viewed no differently than Jews, Christians, Buddhists etc. Correct?

I agree with the above.

The hijab is to Islam, what long black dresses are to Christianity. Agreed? If not, please explain.

In American media, the left side of politics as well as in Hollywood however, long black dresses are associated with fringe elements of Christianity, and in no way equated with the mainstream.

In American media, the left side of politics as well as in Hollywood however, hijabs are increasingly celebrated as, and even widely accepted as a part of, mainstream Islam.

"The Salt Lake Tribune published a photo of fresh-faced teenage girls, who were not Muslim, in the audience at the mosque, their hair covered with long scarves. KSL TV later reported: “The hijab — or headscarf — is a symbol of modesty and dignity. When Muslim women wear headscarves, they are readily identified as followers of Islam.”"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2015/12/21/as-muslim-women-we-actually-ask-you-not-to-wear-the-hijab-in-the-name-of-interfaith-solidarity/

I'll quote Hawkins here: "This is something I can do for Muslim sisters who are in danger every day,"

I would assume that if you want mainstream Islam to not be associated with conservative Islamism, you would work to disassociate your "Muslim sisters" with conservative Islamism.

Hence, to use an analogy.. As a mainstream Christian, I would roll my eyes at any well-meaning soul wanting to show solidarity with Christians by wearing a long, black dress.

As an isolated act of solidarity, I have no problem with Hawkins' approach. And I'm sure she intended for it to be isolated. Once media began touting it as an act of solidarity with Muslims in general.. I find it scary - From the viewpoint of someone who would genuinely love to see mainstream American Islam throw conservative Islamism, orthodoxy, dogma and headscarves to the fringes.

Edited January 16, 2016 by JayJayH

[smilesammich 10,727]

So..

From a culturally liberal view, the goal is to not associate mainstream Islam with conservative, Saudi / Iranian style Islamism (Be it Sunni or Shia). Correct?

From a culturally liberal view, the goal is to accept and include Muslims as fully integrated members of Western society, viewed no differently than Jews, Christians, Buddhists etc. Correct?

I agree with the above.

The hijab is to Islam, what long black dresses are to Christianity. Agreed? If not, please explain.

In American media, the left side of politics as well as in Hollywood however, long black dresses are associated with fringe elements of Christianity, and in no way equated with the mainstream.

In American media, the left side of politics as well as in Hollywood however, hijabs are increasingly celebrated as, and even widely accepted as a part of, mainstream Islam.

"The Salt Lake Tribune published a photo of fresh-faced teenage girls, who were not Muslim, in the audience at the mosque, their hair covered with long scarves. KSL TV later reported: The hijab or headscarf is a symbol of modesty and dignity. When Muslim women wear headscarves, they are readily identified as followers of Islam."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2015/12/21/as-muslim-women-we-actually-ask-you-not-to-wear-the-hijab-in-the-name-of-interfaith-solidarity/

I'll quote Hawkins here: "This is something I can do for Muslim sisters who are in danger every day,"

I would assume that if you want mainstream Islam to not be associated with conservative Islamism, you would work to disassociate your "Muslim sisters" with conservative Islamism.

Hence, to use an analogy.. As a mainstream Christian, I would roll my eyes at any well-meaning soul wanting to show solidarity with Christians by wearing a long, black dress.

As an isolated act of solidarity, I have no problem with Hawkins' approach. And I'm sure she intended for it to be isolated. Once media began touting it as an act of solidarity with Muslims in general.. I find it scary - From the viewpoint of someone who would genuinely love to see mainstream American Islam throw conservative Islamism, orthodoxy, dogma and headscarves to the fringes.

thanks for breaking that down, i don't disagree with anything you're saying really except for, i don't actively want to disassociate mainstream american islam from conservative islam. i dont feel the need to. if hollywood is doing that, or the media, imo it's about ratings/hype/fear. so what one person does, as a religious protest or whatever a fb comment and wearing a scarf is, can be picked up and turned into a hot topic (and it touches on so many, women's rights, religious rights, evil christian college admins) by our trusty media..i dont know where there's an argument.

[Janelle2002 3,865]

well, there's no need to show solidarity for everyday christians in this country. and a skirt definitely wouldn't mean a thing, you're right.

but i don't think she's loosing her job for the hijab, she's loosing her job for saying christians and muslims worship the same god. i've read the mission statement or whatever from that college's website and she simply doesn't fit in with their particular brand of christianity. she's too liberal. plain and simple.

No one wants to admit we have radical christians. lol