Jakarta bombing: Attackers linked to Islamic State, police say

[ExPatty 502]

My response is simply people are made worse by following islam. I can respect a person despite them being an alcoholic, but they would be better if they stopped drinking. And not all alcoholics are drunk drivers, but all drunk drivers are alcoholics. Not all smokers get lung cancer, but a lot do, and it's disproportionately responsible for lung cancer. I have some co-workers who I like and they smoke despite smoking, but I would like they would objectively be better people if they didn't smoke.

[smilesammich 10,727]

My response is simply people are made worse by following islam. I can respect a person despite them being an alcoholic, but they would be better if they stopped drinking. And not all alcoholics are drunk drivers, but all drunk drivers are alcoholics. Not all smokers get lung cancer, but a lot do, and it's disproportionately responsible for lung cancer. I have some co-workers who I like and they smoke despite smoking, but I would like they would objectively be better people if they didn't smoke.

but that isn't true. and then you've gone on to give examples of physical substances that kill you/make you sick. not a good comparison for your argument. the only way you could effectively argue that 'people are made worse by following islam' is if you had evidence that followers of islam will eventually bring harm to others because of their religion. it just isn't true.

[ExPatty 502]

but that isn't true. and then you've gone on to give examples of physical substances that kill you/make you sick. not a good comparison for your argument. the only way you could effectively argue that 'people are made worse by following islam' is if you had evidence that followers of islam will eventually bring harm to others because of their religion. it just isn't true.

Not only is my comparison downright amazing, but it's also based in fact.

I'm surprised you don't respect any religion; i.e. you think they are bad, but you cannot carry that statement to the conclusion that those who follow them are made worse by doing so.

islamic countries consistently do badly against the rest of the world; oppressive, no rights for any minority groups, no freedom of speech, religion, then icing on the cake they have high rates of killing each other. A quarter of the world follows islam, yet it is responsible for most of the terrorism. Even other highly impoverished nations packed to the brim with people like china and india are not massacring each other constantly over who is properly following the rules put through by their slaver prophet. islamists are responsible for less inventions in the modern world than a decent sized state because they don't prize science and are anti-intellectual. And if you disagree, please come over here so I can cut your head off.

Given the fact we have many examples of islam making people worse, and well I honestly cannot think of any of it making people better, I safely conclude that on the whole it is a bad influence, like smoking.

[smilesammich 10,727]

Not only is my comparison downright amazing, but it's also based in fact.

I'm surprised you don't respect any religion; i.e. you think they are bad, but you cannot carry that statement to the conclusion that those who follow them are made worse by doing so.

if your comparison were based in fact, you'd have evidence of islam's ill effects in every follower of islam over time. you don't. there are plenty of perfectly normal people, who don't hurt others, who follow islam. its' pesky, but it's the truth you need to keep coming back to.

the muslims i know are not destined to become terrible people over time because they follow islam. quite, simply, your premise isn't factual. i don't get what the hang up is, it's not like i don't believe that islamic terrorists have nothing to do with islam. that's stupid. they claim islam. but that doesn't mean that everyone who claims islam is a potential terrorist. i get that it should be easier for me, as an atheist, to condemn anyone who has a sky friend as an idiot, setting themselves up for disrespect. but that's not how religious freedom works. and i like my religious freedom.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

My response is simply people are made worse by following islam. I can respect a person despite them being an alcoholic, but they would be better if they stopped drinking. And not all alcoholics are drunk drivers, but all drunk drivers are alcoholics. Not all smokers get lung cancer, but a lot do, and it's disproportionately responsible for lung cancer. I have some co-workers who I like and they smoke despite smoking, but I would like they would objectively be better people if they didn't smoke.

Millions of people here follow Islam without incident. You're talking to a former Muslim. I can't recall the urge to blow up or hurt anyone when I was reading the Quran, so that invalidates your first statement.

If you can't/won't make the distinction between ISIS and Muslims that follow the faith without the bloodshed, then maybe you should find a website that follows that mind frame.

[ExPatty 502]

Millions of people here follow Islam without incident. You're talking to a former Muslim. I can't recall the urge to blow up or hurt anyone when I was reading the Quran, so that invalidates your first statement.

If you can't/won't make the distinction between ISIS and Muslims that follow the faith without the bloodshed, then maybe you should find a website that follows that mind frame.

For you.

[ExPatty 502]

if your comparison were based in fact, you'd have evidence of islam's ill effects in every follower of islam over time. you don't. there are plenty of perfectly normal people, who don't hurt others, who follow islam. its' pesky, but it's the truth you need to keep coming back to.

I'm sorry to break the news to you, but, that's not how statistics work. Something can have a measurable, statistically relevant impact on a pool of subjects without impacting them all the same. And that is a pesky truth you need to keep coming back to.

[smilesammich 10,727]

I'm sorry to break the news to you, but, that's not how statistics work. Something can have a measurable, statistically relevant impact on a pool of subjects without impacting them all the same. And that is a pesky truth you need to keep coming back to.

statistics? where are the statistics that support your claim "people are made worse by following islam"

[ExPatty 502]

statistics? where are the statistics that support your claim "people are made worse by following islam"

You can start here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism this is good reading, too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_in_Islam#Homosexuality_laws_in_majority-Muslim_countries

If you get bored you can look up scientific achievements in the modern world by muslims, economic status of their countries, etc.

The funny thing is both of us know that there is going to be a terrorist attack very soon again and we both know it will be by a muslim. And you will still insist there is nothing that separates islam from other religions. I can only lead you to water. If you won't drink it that's your decision.

Edited January 14, 2016 by ExPatty

[smilesammich 10,727]

You can start here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism this is good reading, too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_in_Islam#Homosexuality_laws_in_majority-Muslim_countries

If you get bored you can look up scientific achievements in the modern world by muslims, economic status of their countries, etc.

The funny thing is both of us know that there is going to be a terrorist attack very soon again and we both know it will be by a muslim. And you will still insist there is nothing that separates islam from other religions. I can only lead you to water. If you won't drink it that's your decision.

so, you don't have those statistics. got it.

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

My response is simply people are made worse by following islam. I can respect a person despite them being an alcoholic, but they would be better if they stopped drinking. And not all alcoholics are drunk drivers, but all drunk drivers are alcoholics. Not all smokers get lung cancer, but a lot do, and it's disproportionately responsible for lung cancer. I have some co-workers who I like and they smoke despite smoking, but I would like they would objectively be better people if they didn't smoke.

I don't think all drunk drivers are alcoholic by any stretch

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

For you.

Don't be mad your logic is flawed. Your exact words were people who follow Islam are made worse. I followed it and I'm not worse. Your move.

[ExPatty 502]

so, you don't have those statistics. got it.

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2014/nov/18/religious-extremism-main-cause-of-terrorism-according-to-report

Religious extremism has become the main driver of terrorism in recent years, according to this year’s Global Terrorism Index.

The report recorded 18,000 deaths in 2013, a rise of 60% on the previous year. The majority (66%) of these were attributable to just four groups: Islamic State(Isis) in Iraq and Syria, Boko Haram in Nigeria, the Taliban in Afghanistan and al-Qaida.

Wait, can it be? Islam is responsible for most of the world's terrorism? Nah, according to you there are no stats to support any correlation between islam and terrorism.

Edited January 14, 2016 by ExPatty

[ExPatty 502]

Don't be mad your logic is flawed. Your exact words were people who follow Islam are made worse. I followed it and I'm not worse. Your move.

What did my exact words have to do with:

"If you can't/won't make the distinction between ISIS and Muslims that follow the faith without the bloodshed,"

[smilesammich 10,727]

Wait, can it be? Islam is responsible for most of the world's terrorism? Nah, according to you there are no stats to support any correlation between islam and terrorism.

and here you go. you can't provide statistics to back up your statement, so you've resorted to changing the premise of the argument. reminder: you're not providing stats that show a correlation between religious extremism and terrorism..you're supposed to be providing statistics that show "people are made worse by following islam" you can't. they don't exist.