Starting K1 Visa for Moroccan Fiance

[B&Z 201]

Agree. She should say she is Christian, and then it is as simple as getting that statement on your single status letter usually from the embassy.

Why hoop jump and have to give a statement in a big mosque, have it legally documented that you now have a second alias in another country, etc

I converted in Morocco right before running around to get all of our documents together to get approval to get married in Morocco. I was not Jewish or Christian, so this was necessary (plus, I felt ready to take it as a Muslim). I took my shahada in an adoul's office and "chose a Muslim name". It's not necessary to say your shahada in a mosque or in front of strangers (other than an adoul, which is just one person, the witnesses can be your fiance and a parent of his). Also, the name chosen doesn't have to/will not be used anywhere else, such as on official documents other than the letter the adoul writes up to confirm the conversion, thus there is no need to do any documentation that you have an alias in a foreign country...the Muslim name you choose or are given is not a legal name you'll be going by in Morocco.

Since this person is doing a K-1 Visa and will be marrying their fiance in the US, they will only need to provide that document (which will need to be gotten before marriage so Morocco will consider the marriage legitimate), along with their marriage documents to the government of Morocco after marriage in order to have it recognized. I'm not so sure this will be a huge issue at the consulate interview for the visa other than them questioning the beneficiary about religious differences and how they plan on that working out, but lying about being Christian is no different than lying to take the Shahada. They're still going to have to provide documents to the Moroccan government to prove they're Christian/Jewish/Muslim (like a certified statement from a pastor/rabbi/imam) regardless of which religion they choose to say they are.

Edited February 1, 2016 by B&Z

[AJ17 2]

I didn't state the conversion because I wanted opinions/judgments on it. I forgot why I even said anything about it here.

I should have probably said - that one reason is to make sure our marriage is recognized in Morocco and it won't be if I am not of the three religions. Travel is very much hindered by this as his status as a married man would also be affected since as a Muslim, he is supposed to marry one of the three religions. Otherwise, for all intents and purposes in Morocco, he is single. This people would know if they bothered looking into it. Bureacracy is a pain that no one escapes.

Thank you to all the helpful people who helped us thus far with our application and for your best wishes.

But this last round of comments made him upset and he says insulting me is insulting him and he doesn't think we should use this forum to work on our paperwork and get tips anymore if there's just unhelpful nasty people on here. So far there were more helpful than not-helpful people but those thinking they know what's going on based on one comment is actually presumptious and judgmental... Ironic since you should know that no one should judge others. That's one of the core teachings in most religions. Epic fail if you're trying to prove being a truly religious person of any religion.

Also what's the difference between becoming Christian for the same reasons? Seriously? How is that ok?

Nowhere did I say I would not be a proper Muslim woman, eventually. It takes time to acclimate to anything different from what you know and to study and understand the Quran will take time but so does anything worth doing.

But then a lot of people don't even understand what they're reading when they read the Bible, New Testaments or Quran or even Buddhist texts so I'm not surprised at the criticism of so-called religious folks.

This will be my last word on this since it has no bearing on K1 visa.

Edited February 1, 2016 by AJ17

[FarrahIdir 46]

Just make a good intention to god before shehada. It's between u and god anyways and not for others to judge. You never know where you will be years from now, all u can do is what's best for you. Good luck

[Boiler 45,525]

I find it very hard to believe that someone who is Muslim and marries a non Muslim not Jewish etc) outside of a Muslim country suddenly becomes single on entering a Muslim country.

[AJ17 2]

Thanks, Farrah! I have already made my intentions known before shahada and know I will commit to the faith completely. It will take time but it is worth doing.

It's bureaucracy - I think because Morocco only accepts marriages between a Muslim and one of three religions. They didn't recognize marriages between a Muslim and non-Jewish, non-Christian or non-Muslim. In fact, if you are a practicing Muslim man, you really can't marry outside the three religions. This is something I heard from my Muslim friends here and people I've spoken to who are from Morocco and still live in Morocco. Maybe my fiance was misinformed but he asked alot of people - including those working in government offices who told him ours if I am Buddhist, our union is not recognized there. Maybe they lied to him?

[Ismael&Blair 66]

I find it very hard to believe that someone who is Muslim and marries a non Muslim not Jewish etc) outside of a Muslim country suddenly becomes single on entering a Muslim country.

I am not judging AJ and her fiance. They may be getting two issues mixed up. I am married to a Muslim husband and I didn't convert to Muslim and my husband is still recognized as a married person because the marriage license (whether married in Morocco or US) are reciprocally recognized in both countries.

I think her question was pointed more for how to get around the rule in Morocco. The strict rule is that if you are not married, you will need to "lay low" locally and stay around the family and friends. It is not accepted to travel as an unmarried couple because it's against the law for a "single guy" and "unmarried girl" to be together as a couple in public.

From her questioning, I believe that AJ and her fiance wanted to be recognized as a "married" couple in Morocco (prior to being married) so they could be able to travel around the country without scrutiny. Morocco being a Muslim country has a custom is that once you find the right person, you get married because you can't date around (it's sinful).

Maybe her fiance wants her to convert prior to being married in the US. I've heard & read there's a Muslim ceremony called a "Nikka". It's a religious ceremony to show that they are committed as a Muslim couple. They would get some kind of paper to be recognized being religiously "married" without being legally married in Morocco. Maybe that is a way to get around it?

Bottom line...In Morocco, it is unlawful to allow unmarried couple to be cohabitating together (ie. sharing a hotel room, living together). There are checkpoints with border town police officers who could & will stop you in cars to ask for identification and question the nature of one's relationship especially traveling when the sun is down. (I am speaking all this from experience when I was in Morocco especially me being Asian American) so I stood out when we traveled up and down Morocco for vacation. We drove to many of our destinations in his car. Certain areas in Morocco are really "old-school" and traditional and every hotel even the major hotels (ie. Sofitel Hotel) will ask for legal documentation to prove that we are married or we wouldn't have been able to rent a room.

I'm sadden that AJ and her fiance got a bad impression of Visa Journey. I only hope they will look past people's candid comments. I find this site a super valuable resource. I just told a newer Visa Journey member to read EVERYTHING HERE on VISA JOURNEY and then ask questions. I learned a lot from here and I took everything with a grain of salt and know that ultimately it's between you and your husband/fiance. We are all just trying to help & only they will learn from their journey. When they make it to the interview part, they may or may not realize that the comments and questions here are only half as tough as the real questions and comments they will encounter at the US Consulate.

I thank Visa Journey for where both my Moroccan husband and I are at. We are now just waiting for the super slow ROC process to end and for him to get his 10 year greencard. Any day now! Crossing my fingers! Well these are my 2 cents for the day! Thanks for reading! Good luck everyone!

[Happytobe 164]

AJ - don't be discouraged about utilizing the site. I understand where everyone is coming from, including yourself. I appreciate that you gave us further information about your beliefs and intentions in Islam. I've been considering converting for a number of years, since before I met my husband. I have to say that your original comment came across as conversion was just a means to accomplish marriage and legal rights, and not for the intention of practicing. That would be an issue at the Consulate..... Best of luck on your spiritual journey!

On the question about how you met.... There have been a number of posts over the last year about the petitioners having to provide a document from the dating site that they are not a "marriage broker" ... I think there's discussion in the IMBRA forum. So please do an advanced search on here to get more information about that, as providing that up-front will save you some time if it isn't there and you get issued an RFE.

Please feel free to PM if you have other questions. Ismael&Blair is a good source for information, as well. Best of luck on your VisaJourney!

[Shoot Em Straight 385]

I didn't state the conversion because I wanted opinions/judgments on it. I forgot why I even said anything about it here.

The way you wrote it cannot be construed in any other way than it read... until you corrected yourself and made clear your intentions of converting.....my comment was not judgmental. It was an opinion, I still stand by it.

But this last round of comments made him upset and he says insulting me is insulting him and he doesn't think we should use this forum to work on our paperwork and get tips anymore if there's just unhelpful nasty people on here.

Ha you should have been on here a year ago.

So far there were more helpful than not-helpful people but those thinking they know what's going on based on one comment is actually presumptious and judgmental...

Public forum. Once read on here....Chew the meat and leave the bone.

Nowhere did I say I would not be a proper Muslim woman, eventually. It takes time to acclimate to anything different from what you know and to study and understand the Quran will take time but so does anything worth doing.

I truly hope you do.

This will be my last word on this since it has no bearing on K1 visa.

It might, if the subject of your converting comes up with his interview.

AJ17

Normally I would not have commented further but going through BOTH the entire k1 and Ir1/cr1 journeys via CASA, a drilling 3 1/2 hr POE and finally AOS, I think it would help you more than me staying silent.

You and your fiance need to toughen up. If he was at the CO interview and answered the religion question with your comment do you think it would not raise a flag? And at that point, Would telling the CO you are both insulted help your case?

You have a great advantage over a lot of people finding this site BEFORE you file. Like many others in MENA

I came here in desperation AFTER the mysterious 221 (G). And like many in MENA it took years and a good fight to have my SO by my side in the U.S. It should be easier for you.

Leaving this site because you did not like the comments you read would be a mistake. VJ is invaluable wealth of knowledge and even if you feel there are "just unhelpful nasty people" on here for not posting the way you like it... you must see you have already learned things.

Read your guides, continually collect your evidence, front load it when you file.

Good luck to you.

[Harmonia 211]

IMO better to convert to your husband's religion than say you're a 3rd, totally random religion like Christian for the purposes of marriage recognition.

People convert for marriage all the time in the US. I know a TON of people who've done RCIA (like adult CCD classes) to become Roman Catholic as adults...to get married in the Catholic church. Or I knew several non-religious folks who joined evangelical churches and did marriage prep classes to be married in the church by a pastor. In each case, it was become one member of the couple was religious, or of a religion, and the other wasn't and didn't care. I was IN a wedding where the bride got baptized (as an adult) and "became" Christian to get married in a Christian church by her husband's family member, who was a pastor.

What the OP wants to do, in my mind, is not controversial, especially in an immigration context of needing to jump through the bureaucratic hoops to be together.

Edited February 11, 2016 by Harmonia

[Boiler 45,525]

^{The other option is for him to convert especially as they have decided upon the US because of her Parents who are presumingly not converting.}

[Harmonia 211]

^{The other option is for him to convert especially as they have decided upon the US because of her Parents who are presumingly not converting.}

Can you convert to being Buddhist in the sense of religious conversion?

[Boiler 45,525]

Can you convert to being Buddhist in the sense of religious conversion?

Well I have never tried but people do.

[B&Z 201]

^{The other option is for him to convert especially as they have decided upon the US because of her Parents who are presumingly not converting.}

There is that whole "apostasy is a sin" thing in Islam (and deserving of death as punishment, depending on whether one believes in the particular hadith that says so). Morocco doesn't have laws that punish apostasy, but culturally and religiously, it's still something one has to hide from the general public. Her fiance's parents most likely wouldn't be amenable to that idea, and perhaps her fiance isn't open to it either...

[Boiler 45,525]

There is that whole "apostasy is a sin" thing in Islam (and deserving of death as punishment, depending on whether one believes in the particular hadith that says so). Morocco doesn't have laws that punish apostasy, but culturally and religiously, it's still something one has to hide from the general public. Her fiance's parents most likely wouldn't be amenable to that idea, and perhaps her fiance isn't open to it either...

None of that applies in the US.

[B&Z 201]

None of that applies in the US.

Converting to Buddhism doesn't apply to the US either, but in this case, OP's future husband's beliefs and culture will still apply to/affect their relationship, regardless of which country they're in. I'm saying theoretically, no one has to convert to anything in order to be married in the US, but there are underlying factors as to what's going on with the dynamic of their relationship. It's a shame to HAVE to convert to anything at all for any country's bureaucratic hoops they make people jump through.

This couple wants their US marriage to be recognized by Morocco. Morocco does not have a blanket-acceptance of all marriages with Moroccans taking place in foreign countries, so marriage between a Muslim and someone who is not Jewish/Christian/Muslim may not be officially recognized by the government of Morocco.