Importing Canadian Vehicle to USA - Not Fully Compliant

[Banani 2]

On 2/1/2017 at 0:09 PM, zilchfox said:

I had the exact same issue with my 2010 Mazda 3, TPMS issue. I ended up selling the car in the end, and I miss it every day.

It's really sad :(. Sorry it didn't work out for you. I think the only reason mine was imported is because my visa is very temporary, and I will be returning to Canada soon anyways. 

[Banani 2]

On 2/1/2017 at 5:50 PM, tdav said:

I've been searching and searching because I am in the same boat, my 2014 Hyundai Elantra GT does not have TPMS, would cost thousands to install, and I really don't want to sell it. I found one thread somewhere in a deep google search where somebody talked to the CBP officer about their options and they were able to do a semi-permanent import in which they could import their car and register but never be able to sell it. I don't know if this is a real thing, and probably won't work everywhere and would be highly dependent on the officer you get. Might be naive to hold on to this little glimmer of hope but I'm willing to give it a shot. If it doesn't work, after I get all settled in I'll drive the car back up to Ontario and attempt to sell it from there..and then probably have to do some voodoo to be able to find a manual transmission hatchback I can afford. 

I think it does heavily depend on your visa status. If you're moving to the US on a more permanent visa, such as a K1 or something, you may not be able to import it. My car didn't even have an OEM TPMS option to install (believe me, I tried to get many dealers to put one in), and I was on a very temporary visa. If your car can be retrofitted, then you likely can't import it without meeting those requirements. For me, I had 0 options for my 5 month old car, and I will be moving back to Canada. Good luck to you, but remember to be honest with the CBP officer who helps you out. You definitely don't want to be importing the car on false pretenses or anything like that. If they let you, then that would be better than selling, but I unfortunately can't tell you how it will play out since it's probably on a case-by-case and visa-by-visa basis. It's sad having to sell such a large possession after having it for such a short time

[Banani 2]

21 hours ago, NikLR said:

Cars are much cheaper in the USA than in Canada.  My 2003 Acura was $3500 with about 115k miles on it.  Our 2013 truck was 23k  You can buy a brand new ford fiesta for 15k.   High recommend not buying new since your loan will end up upside down unless you buy something really popular in your area.  

 

http://www.autobytel.com/car-buying-guides/features/15-dependable-used-cars-under-10-000-6573/

 

http://www.autobytel.com/car-buying-guides/features/10-best-used-hatchbacks-121291/

 

For them to allow you to import and register a card down here that's not compliant is actually illegal.  I remember a thread where someone said they did it, but again, illegal and thus against TOS. 

 

Its crazy that in Canada we have daytime running lights as mandatory but not TPMS.   Personally I think both should be... Even though I ignored the warning on my Jeep since the tires were much bigger than normal and the TPMS system to redo EACH tire was $130.... $520 or I can ignore the ding and light... Yup ignored that thing! 

I agree that cars are much cheaper in the US, and the only difference is usually TPMS (everything else on the cars are basically the same).

 

Sorry if I wasn't clear, but my car was legally imported based on my temporary visa status in the US. I will be returning to Canada, and thus will be taking the car with me. My intention is not to violate any TOS or encourage anyone to do anything illegal, as I went the legal route to get my car imported (as should everyone). I encourage everyone to be upfront and honest with the CBP officers, and let them decide if the car should be imported based on their visa status and car make/model. I believe there is a list of cars that are exempt from certain blanket rules of compliance, so the officers do take this into consideration when importing.

 

I know many people who own cars in Canada who have TPMS, but I believe a lot of base models of cars don't actually have TPMS, unless you buy an extra package with TPMS (but no one I know who has it likes it because of the incessant warning light that comes on all winter). I do wish DRLs would be mandatory because a lot of people still don't have automatic headlights, making it very difficult for their car to be seen in the dark/rainy days. Hopefully this changes in the future!

[MarcinB 0]

On 11/11/2016 at 11:33 AM, Banani said:

Are you already in the US with your car?

Is your car a 2015?

Do you own the car completely (no lien on the car)?

In what country did you buy the car?

Is your car currently registered and insured and in that country?

If Canada, which province?

What model is your car?

What part of your car is not compliant with American standards?

Have you contacted your manufacturer and received a letter of compliance?

Have you already tried to import it at a port of entry?

Did you drive your car to the US, or are you planning on having it shipped?

 

Do you have a drivers license in the state you currently live in?

Do you or your partner have an SSN?

What city are you living in in the US?

What visa are you currently on?

How long has it been since you've received your visa, and how long is your visa valid for?

1

 

Hey Banani - I would greatly appreciate any info/learning you have on this. I sent you a DM with answers to the above questions. 

Thanks in advance!!

 

[TDotCord 0]

I imported my non-TPMS compliant vehicle today. If you are interested in background and detail read on. 

_________________________________________________________

 

I am glad I found this thread after many searches on automotive forms regarding the TPMS issue. I am thankful to Banani for her willingness to answer questions. 

 

My situation is slightly different. I am a naturalized Canadian living in WA. My parents gave me their Canadian Market 2012 Toyota Camry. I obtained a compliance letter from Toyota Canada (TCI), which essentially stated that the vehicle is substantially similar to the same model sold in the US, full EPA compliance, but non compliance with FMVSS101 (Controls & Display) - not an issue for personal vehicles, and FMVSS138 (TPMS).

 

It goes further to say that the model sold in Canada was not equipped with the TPMS. From what I was able to find out for Canadian Toyotas was that after MY2010, TCI deleted the TPMS options altogether. This is consistent with what I see when comparing my Canadian spec vehicle against a US spec. The dash area where the TPMS light should be is not there.

 

I initially brought the vehicle through the Blaine, WA crossing on a permission to use letter from my father.

 

[Sidebar here... to anyone wishing to borrow a vehicle and drive it over the border without the owner, get the letter notarized with both the driver and vehicle owners information and signatures. I didn't, so I waited about 3 hours to have the car inspected, or make sure you have NEXUS, line was much shorter] - not complaining. I fully understand the job from the CBP perspective.

 

The intent for bringing the vehicle into the US was to see if I could have a local Toyota dealer retrofit an OEM system from a US model. I spoke to the CBP officers at the crossing prior to this decision, but I was unable to obtain a uniform answer. Two of them told me I had to retrofit prior to being able to obtain import documentation. One told me that if it was him he'd give me the documentation, and I can retrofit after I got into WA, however it depended on which CBP officer I got.

 

The process generally followed at border crossings for Canadian vehicles is they have to meet the FMVSS138 (TPMS) requirement to be eligible under the VSA-80 and VSA-81 Canadian certified import. If not, the vehicle will have to be OEM retrofitted with a TPMS from a like vehicle with TPMS. This requirement is explicitly documented in the Registered Importer Newsletter No. 50. If this was the absolute requirement for me, I would be SOL. The local Toyota dealership weren't even sure if they could do it. They could try but there would be no guarantee.

 

https://icsw.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/import/

 

Usually information from the CBP website regarding private vehicle imports are:

 

Vehicle owner provides: owner named Title and Manufacturers Compliance Letter

 

If all checks out, CBP issues: EPA Form 3520-1, US DOT HS-7

 

After IM-ing Banani, I called my local CBP office from her advice and explained my situation. The CBP Officer was very helpful and looked into a couple of things. He came back said that although the TPMS is a US DOT requirement as explicitly stated, CBP was not going to enforce it at this time. However, that could change in the future.

 

https://www.cbp.gov/contact/ports

 

I visited the CBP office this morning with all my documentation and was issued an "Entry Summary" CF 7501 form. It was signed and stamped by the officer. There was a section where he circled:

"Conforming Vehicle - Letter of conformity provided from the original manufacturer attached"

 

All I did was take the CBP provided from with my documents to the local DOL paid the title transfer, registration and plate fee and I was done.

 

Hopefully this made sense. I don't think I want to proofread. Let me know if you have questions and good luck. Bottom line is it can be done.

 

 

[NikLR 13,231]

Thank you for the update.  Sounds like you had issues AT the border but imported after entry at a local cbp?

[MarcinB 0]

7 hours ago, TDotCord said:

I imported my non-TPMS compliant vehicle today. If you are interested in background and detail read on. 

_________________________________________________________

 

I am glad I found this thread after many searches on automotive forms regarding the TPMS issue. I am thankful to Banani for her willingness to answer questions. 

 

My situation is slightly different. I am a naturalized Canadian living in WA. My parents gave me their Canadian Market 2012 Toyota Camry. I obtained a compliance letter from Toyota Canada (TCI), which essentially stated that the vehicle is substantially similar to the same model sold in the US, full EPA compliance, but non compliance with FMVSS101 (Controls & Display) - not an issue for personal vehicles, and FMVSS138 (TPMS).

 

It goes further to say that the model sold in Canada was not equipped with the TPMS. From what I was able to find out for Canadian Toyotas was that after MY2010, TCI deleted the TPMS options altogether. This is consistent with what I see when comparing my Canadian spec vehicle against a US spec. The dash area where the TPMS light should be is not there.

 

I initially brought the vehicle through the Blaine, WA crossing on a permission to use letter from my father.

 

[Sidebar here... to anyone wishing to borrow a vehicle and drive it over the border without the owner, get the letter notarized with both the driver and vehicle owners information and signatures. I didn't, so I waited about 3 hours to have the car inspected, or make sure you have NEXUS, line was much shorter] - not complaining. I fully understand the job from the CBP perspective.

 

The intent for bringing the vehicle into the US was to see if I could have a local Toyota dealer retrofit an OEM system from a US model. I spoke to the CBP officers at the crossing prior to this decision, but I was unable to obtain a uniform answer. Two of them told me I had to retrofit prior to being able to obtain import documentation. One told me that if it was him he'd give me the documentation, and I can retrofit after I got into WA, however it depended on which CBP officer I got.

 

The process generally followed at border crossings for Canadian vehicles is they have to meet the FMVSS138 (TPMS) requirement to be eligible under the VSA-80 and VSA-81 Canadian certified import. If not, the vehicle will have to be OEM retrofitted with a TPMS from a like vehicle with TPMS. This requirement is explicitly documented in the Registered Importer Newsletter No. 50. If this was the absolute requirement for me, I would be SOL. The local Toyota dealership weren't even sure if they could do it. They could try but there would be no guarantee.

 

https://icsw.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/import/

 

Usually information from the CBP website regarding private vehicle imports are:

 

Vehicle owner provides: owner named Title and Manufacturers Compliance Letter

 

If all checks out, CBP issues: EPA Form 3520-1, US DOT HS-7

 

After IM-ing Banani, I called my local CBP office from her advice and explained my situation. The CBP Officer was very helpful and looked into a couple of things. He came back said that although the TPMS is a US DOT requirement as explicitly stated, CBP was not going to enforce it at this time. However, that could change in the future.

 

https://www.cbp.gov/contact/ports

 

I visited the CBP office this morning with all my documentation and was issued an "Entry Summary" CF 7501 form. It was signed and stamped by the officer. There was a section where he circled:

"Conforming Vehicle - Letter of conformity provided from the original manufacturer attached"

 

All I did was take the CBP provided from with my documents to the local DOL paid the title transfer, registration and plate fee and I was done.

 

Hopefully this made sense. I don't think I want to proofread. Let me know if you have questions and good luck. Bottom line is it can be done.

 

 

 

 

Thanks @TDotCord This is helpful. So if I'm understanding correctly, because I think I'm in the same boat (I have an '09 VW Passat that is NOT on the "do not admit list" - I had a registered importer confirm this for me - but I do have a letter of non-conformity from VW that basically says everything is good and compliant EXCEPT the TPMS), you're saying its up to the discretion of the border officer? So I should call my local border, ask to speak to an office about the situation, and explain it to them and, what, hope they say "ok, we'll remember you, come on down and we'll talk in person?" I'm worried it's a crab shoot in that, if you go there and they DON'T issue you the documents, your vehicle is then essentially "black-listed."

Also, when you said in your description that he circled "Conforming vehicle - letter provided..." didn't you say that your letter said all is compliant except the TPMS (therefore, non-compliant)?

Thanks in advance. Yesterday I had a rough day thinking I was done and had to sell my car. This gives me a shred of hope.

[Banani 2]

1 hour ago, MarcinB said:

 

Thanks @TDotCord This is helpful. So if I'm understanding correctly, because I think I'm in the same boat (I have an '09 VW Passat that is NOT on the "do not admit list" - I had a registered importer confirm this for me - but I do have a letter of non-conformity from VW that basically says everything is good and compliant EXCEPT the TPMS), you're saying its up to the discretion of the border officer? So I should call my local border, ask to speak to an office about the situation, and explain it to them and, what, hope they say "ok, we'll remember you, come on down and we'll talk in person?" I'm worried it's a crab shoot in that, if you go there and they DON'T issue you the documents, your vehicle is then essentially "black-listed."

Also, when you said in your description that he circled "Conforming vehicle - letter provided..." didn't you say that your letter said all is compliant except the TPMS (therefore, non-compliant)?

Thanks in advance. Yesterday I had a rough day thinking I was done and had to sell my car. This gives me a shred of hope.

Hi Marcin, 

 

You're exactly right. When you call the office and give them the details about your situation, they will tell you if they will or will not import your vehicle for you. It's best to go to the office same day if you can, to ensure you speak to that same officer. You could even ask them their name to make sure you speak with them directly when you go into the office. 

 

If they don't issue you the documents when you go there (although they will tell you over the phone if they will import it or not), I don't think they would black-list your car. You may be able to import the car temporarily for one year (after which it must be exported from the US), or you can simply say that you have decided not to import it at this time, and you will be driving it back to Canada to sell the car. Either way, calling the import office will let you know what options you have before you go in, based on what the officer says when you explain your situation.

 

Good luck! 

[MarcinB 0]

2 hours ago, Banani said:

Hi Marcin, 

 

You're exactly right. When you call the office and give them the details about your situation, they will tell you if they will or will not import your vehicle for you. It's best to go to the office same day if you can, to ensure you speak to that same officer. You could even ask them their name to make sure you speak with them directly when you go into the office. 

 

If they don't issue you the documents when you go there (although they will tell you over the phone if they will import it or not), I don't think they would black-list your car. You may be able to import the car temporarily for one year (after which it must be exported from the US), or you can simply say that you have decided not to import it at this time, and you will be driving it back to Canada to sell the car. Either way, calling the import office will let you know what options you have before you go in, based on what the officer says when you explain your situation.

 

Good luck! 

 

UPDATE: 

 

I just got off the phone call with the customs officer and here's the info I got:

- the TPMS is NOT a deal breaker (granted, he was an older man who retires in 2 weeks.. so maybe he was looser). 

- he strongly advised I go through a broker to get the documents filled out 

- in terms of documents, he said there are a few (that I wasn't aware of... apparently its not just going to the border with the visa, passport, ownership, and conformity letter) - there's the 5106, 3461, 7501, EPA form, DOT form (HS7). Which is why he is advising me to go through the broker. 

 

Does this sound familiar - with all these forms and such? I even clarified with him and that it WASN'T just me going down to their office with passport, ownership, and letter and he confirmed it wasn't. That I needed these others too. 

 

I think I've just confused myself more haha

 

 

[Banani 2]

36 minutes ago, MarcinB said:

UPDATE: 

 

I just got off the phone call with the customs officer and here's the info I got:

- the TPMS is NOT a deal breaker (granted, he was an older man who retires in 2 weeks.. so maybe he was looser). 

- he strongly advised I go through a broker to get the documents filled out 

- in terms of documents, he said there are a few (that I wasn't aware of... apparently its not just going to the border with the visa, passport, ownership, and conformity letter) - there's the 5106, 3461, 7501, EPA form, DOT form (HS7). Which is why he is advising me to go through the broker. 

 

Does this sound familiar - with all these forms and such? I even clarified with him and that it WASN'T just me going down to their office with passport, ownership, and letter and he confirmed it wasn't. That I needed these others too. 

 

I think I've just confused myself more haha

 

 

I'm glad to hear that TPMS is not a dealbreaker! Going through a broker is a good idea if you want to make sure all documents are filled out correctly. 

 

I did not fill out form 5106 or form 3461 prior to going to the CBP office. I did fill out and bring the EPA form 3520-1 and HS-7 form with me to the office, but the officer didn't need those forms. He took my passport, car ownership, and letter of conformity, and went outside to inspect my car. Then, as with @TDotCord, issued me the completed 7501 form to take to a local DoL to get the car registered.

 

According to https://www.cbp.gov/trade/basic-import-export/importing-car, you need to provide CBP with:

1. Bill of sale

2. Foreign registration

3. EPA form 3520-1 - https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2015-04/documents/3520-1.pdf

     - For the EPA 3520-1 form, you would likely check off Code M, to state that you are a Canadian working in the US on a visa. This        exempts you from meeting EPA standards for your Canadian car. 

4. DOT form HS-7 - https://icsw.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/import/hs799short.pdf

     - This tells them that your car meets FMVSS standards (which it does not if your car doesn't have TMPS)

 

I'm pretty sure that the documents above are what you need to import your car. Those were all the forms I needed, and @TDotCord seemed to have the same experience (please correct me if I'm wrong). However, we were dealing with the Seattle office, so it's possible that there may be different requirements for an office in your city. The CBP website makes no mention of providing the officers with form 5106 or form 3461. Is there another office in your city you can call to get a second opinion?

 

 

 

Edited February 10, 2017 by Banani

[MarcinB 0]

ANOTHER update. 

 

I spoke with a broker, they told me to verify with the DOT about my situation - the border officer told me to do this too. Basically here's what I found out:

- DOT said that TPMS is a deal breaker. If the car was manufactured after Sept 2007 (meaning, 2008 models and beyond), the US government said all cars need to have TPMS. Since my car is newer than that, it falls into that rule. 

- But the customs officer said I'd be good?? - this is where the process might be on my side. Customs acts as an agent for dot. So the agent at customs may put it through, give me the ok, and i'm good to have it registered. However, since the letter of non-conformity states all is good except tpms, and since tpms is a deal breaker based on dot rules (the dot guy told me its black and white, no ifs or specific situations), IF my file were ever to get reviewed, and IF it were found that the tpms wasn't compliant, they could essentially recall their decision and ask me to remove my car from the US. 

 

So, I think I'm at a gamble phase now... not really sure what to do.

 

 

[TDotCord 0]

13 hours ago, MarcinB said:

 

Thanks @TDotCord This is helpful. So if I'm understanding correctly, because I think I'm in the same boat (I have an '09 VW Passat that is NOT on the "do not admit list" - I had a registered importer confirm this for me - but I do have a letter of non-conformity from VW that basically says everything is good and compliant EXCEPT the TPMS), you're saying its up to the discretion of the border officer? So I should call my local border, ask to speak to an office about the situation, and explain it to them and, what, hope they say "ok, we'll remember you, come on down and we'll talk in person?" I'm worried it's a crab shoot in that, if you go there and they DON'T issue you the documents, your vehicle is then essentially "black-listed."

Also, when you said in your description that he circled "Conforming vehicle - letter provided..." didn't you say that your letter said all is compliant except the TPMS (therefore, non-compliant)?

Thanks in advance. Yesterday I had a rough day thinking I was done and had to sell my car. This gives me a shred of hope.

Yes basically at the discretion of the CBP officer at the border crossing. They are more likely going to be by the book based on my phone calls to the Peace Arch and Truck Crossing (Delta, BC to Blaine, WA). However I would suggest that you call them before hand for your intended border crossing. If the state you'll be residing has a local CBP office, I would also call them and get their take on it. 

 

The Peace Arch/Truck Crossing didn't give me a favorable or consistent response which is why I decided to bring the vehicle in to give me sometime to figure out what to do before officially importing it. I was fortunate enough that the local Seattle CBP office told me they were not enforcing the TPMS requirement.

 

Regarding the CF7501 form I was issued stating vehicle compliance per attached manufacturer letter. My TCI letter did explicitly state compliance except FMVSS138 (TPMS), but I guess it didn't matter since there was no enforcement on it.

 

I provided the CF7501, compliance letter, gift letter (in my case) and signed over title to the local Washington DOL office to complete my transfer of ownership.

[TDotCord 0]

9 hours ago, MarcinB said:

UPDATE: 

 

I just got off the phone call with the customs officer and here's the info I got:

- the TPMS is NOT a deal breaker (granted, he was an older man who retires in 2 weeks.. so maybe he was looser). 

- he strongly advised I go through a broker to get the documents filled out 

- in terms of documents, he said there are a few (that I wasn't aware of... apparently its not just going to the border with the visa, passport, ownership, and conformity letter) - there's the 5106, 3461, 7501, EPA form, DOT form (HS7). Which is why he is advising me to go through the broker. 

 

Does this sound familiar - with all these forms and such? I even clarified with him and that it WASN'T just me going down to their office with passport, ownership, and letter and he confirmed it wasn't. That I needed these others too. 

 

I think I've just confused myself more haha

 

 

I called a few registered importers in Washington in early January in my search of import questions. They operate a little differently as the two I called told me that  they would have to make the vehicle TMPS compliant and Controls & Display compliant (kilometers to miles on the speedometer and odometer). They mentioned the requirement to hold the vehicle for 30 days as well. Both importers told me that the TPMS retrofit had to be done in Canada. Anyway I'll be willing to bet that the 5106 and 3461 are specific for registered importers and does not apply to private personal imports.

[TDotCord 0]

8 hours ago, MarcinB said:

ANOTHER update. 

 

I spoke with a broker, they told me to verify with the DOT about my situation - the border officer told me to do this too. Basically here's what I found out:

- DOT said that TPMS is a deal breaker. If the car was manufactured after Sept 2007 (meaning, 2008 models and beyond), the US government said all cars need to have TPMS. Since my car is newer than that, it falls into that rule. 

- But the customs officer said I'd be good?? - this is where the process might be on my side. Customs acts as an agent for dot. So the agent at customs may put it through, give me the ok, and i'm good to have it registered. However, since the letter of non-conformity states all is good except tpms, and since tpms is a deal breaker based on dot rules (the dot guy told me its black and white, no ifs or specific situations), IF my file were ever to get reviewed, and IF it were found that the tpms wasn't compliant, they could essentially recall their decision and ask me to remove my car from the US. 

 

So, I think I'm at a gamble phase now... not really sure what to do.

 

 

I called US DOT back in January as well. Exactly what they told you. It is because of how they've written the rule. The rep I spoke to agreed it was silly but, it will be rejected if the rule has to be enforced.

 

The way I see it is if the issue the CF7501 stating compliance you're good. All the IFs....yes hypothetical, but they are not going to have the time, funds and means to do all that, especially for something I feel is minor. At one point they allowed aftermarket retrofit systems for compliance based on what I've read. I would not worry about it.

[TDotCord 0]

15 hours ago, NikLR said:

Thank you for the update.  Sounds like you had issues AT the border but imported after entry at a local cbp?

That's correct. I could not get a straight answer from the border crossing. I did the import at the local CBP office.