North Pole will be warmer than Western Texas today

[smilesammich 10,727]

where's my sammich?

[OnMyWayID 1,489]

Yeah, like let's take Boise last year. In 1934, the average mean temperature was 13 C. Last year, the average mean was also 13 C. Supposedly much more heat is trapped in the atmosphere, right? Shouldn't there be a sustainable uptick in temperature like Al Gore's chart says?

Is Boise exempt from global warming phenomena? Would you like to pick another place? Pick one, anywhere on the planet then tell me why Hanson at NASA is reporting statistical changes in global temperatures but thermometers that are in different places around the world are not.

Take two glasses of water at 35 degrees, now put ice in one of the glasses and put small flames below both of them.. 20 minutes later one of them is 40 degrees, the other is still 35 degrees just less ice. I guess the second one isn't having any energy applied, I measured the temp and it didn't change at all.

If Boise is warmer next year will that prove climate change is real to you? Of course not and it should not. The earth's climate system is much more complex than a glass with some ice and is represented by more than just temperature, it has lots of ways to absorb energy - just not forever and not without a cost.

Edited January 5, 2016 by OnMyWayID

[OnMyWayID 1,489]

Is CO2 in the atmosphere trapping energy or are the oceans trapping energy? Thought it was the oceans a few posts ago.

CO2 Is trapping new energy that otherwise would be reflected into space. That excess energy can be stored or released in many ways - ie: Melting ice, heating the oceans, stronger wind, more or more extreme weather systems, etc.. Don't confuse cause and effect.

[Expat1 971]

Take two glasses of water at 35 degrees, now put ice in one of the glasses and put small flames below both of them.. 20 minutes later one of them is 40 degrees, the other is still 35 degrees just less ice. I guess the second one isn't having any energy applied, I measured the temp and it didn't change at all.

If Boise is warmer next year will that prove climate change is real to you? Of course not and it should not. The earth's climate system is much more complex than a glass with some ice and is represented by more than just temperature, it has lots of ways to absorb energy - just not forever and not without a cost.

I see. So unless the temperature reading in the 35 degree glass is tweaked a bit we really cant know that the 35 degree glass was "warmed", that's how it works?

[OnMyWayID 1,489]

I see. So unless the temperature reading in the 35 degree glass is tweaked a bit we really cant know that the 35 degree glass was "warmed", that's how it works?

Right! Well... we could measure the amount of water, subtract that from what was in there before, and knowing the formula for the amount of energy required to take water from a solid state to a liquid state we could determine the amount of energy that has been added to the system... The amount of added energy would be manifested by a rise in water level not in a temperature increase (assuming we could determine water level apart from ice in the initial measurement of course)

In the second cup without ice we would need to measure the amount of water then the amount of temperature change and we would could determine the amount of added energy.

Science!

Edited January 5, 2016 by OnMyWayID

[Expat1 971]

CO2 Is trapping new energy that otherwise would be reflected into space. That excess energy can be stored or released in many ways - ie: Melting ice, heating the oceans, stronger wind, more or more extreme weather systems, etc.. Don't confuse cause and effect.

Try not to panic and throw all sorts of imaginary disasters into the thread. Low number of annual hurricanes is attributed to climate change and high number of hurricanes is also attributed to climate change. Im not confused at all about the science. Transport phenomena (heat, mass, and momentum transfer) is undergrad stuff. Anyone can do it.

So since you're the one breaking it down for us, explain this elevated transfer of energy absent no change in bulk differential temperature between the atmosphere and the surface.

There is always melting ice and forming ice. Lowest measued arctic ice extent was in the 1940's. Second lowest was 2012, followed by a whopping 35% increase in 2013 and 2014, completely opposite of what Gore said would happen in his Nobel acceptance speech. Can you use science to explain this? Gote was parroting the climate "scientists" at NASA and NOAA since he's a lawyer and his daddy was a lawyer and well science really ain't as interesting as jetting around on daddy's Occidental Petroleum money raising awareness. So brief us on the science.

Edited January 5, 2016 by Expat1

[Expat1 971]

Nice move from thermometer readings to melting ice though.........does that mean you figured out what those numbers mean? LOL

In your melting ice experiment, what is the actual starting and ending level in the glass again? How hot does a full glass of ice water need to get to overflow and wash an island away?

Edited January 5, 2016 by Expat1