Name Change (Male) -- worth it?

[Pennycat 880]

I've read a lot of old threads about name changes during the AOS/Naturalization process generally and a few for men specifically and it's not sounding worth the hassle, really, but I'd love some input all the same and I have some specific questions.

Backstory:

Male is the immigrant, on a K1, from Latin American country with accompanying naming traditions (specifically: two surnames, making full name: Firstname Middlename Paternalname Maternalname). I'm just Firstname Middlename Paternalname, and I rather like Paternalname and never really had any intention of changing it (but have always been open to it, depending on how important it wound up being to whoever I married/ our kids/ whatever)

Unfortunately for my fiance, the person from whom Paternalname came from is a total deadbeat who had nothing to do with his upbringing and the one time my fiance reached out to him (as a teenager) he was a complete "glassbowl" to him. Even more unfortunately, he's got this guy's first name, too, and has long resented that fact. So, he sees his immigration and imminent marriage as a way to change all that.

The goal is either to just drop Paternalname and go by Firstname Middlename Maternalname forever OR (and this was his idea) take MY Paternalname in place of that deadbeat's and still have Firstname Middlename WifesPatnernalname Maternalname. I am partial to option 2 myself mostly thinking if we're going to go through what sounds like a LOT of hassle at some point--- it sounds like both dropping a surname and changing one are equally troublesome for males-- may as well do the option that gives us the same surname and sort of messes with tradition a bit-- a favorite pastime of mine

Now, though. It sounds like name changes during AOS/ naturalization is tricky period, and for males in particular. Is this still the case? Someone said something about how you can change your name for free at naturalization if you so desire. Maybe waiting until then makes sense.

The big question is: can he SOCIALLY go by my surname (we're talking Facebook, personal correspondence etc) and Maternalname only for things like banks and bills etc? He already has a bank account with only Maternalname on it-- perfectly legal and appropriate, apparently, and use full name (including deadbeat's) for immigration/legal paperwork alone, until naturalization? Or would this cause problems, too?

He really, seriously wants to get Deadbeat's name out of his life, like, yesterday. I had to twist his arm to write it on our marriage licence (!).

[Amhara 460]

I've read a lot of old threads about name changes during the AOS/Naturalization process generally and a few for men specifically and it's not sounding worth the hassle, really, but I'd love some input all the same and I have some specific questions.

Backstory:

Male is the immigrant, on a K1, from Latin American country with accompanying naming traditions (specifically: two surnames, making full name: Firstname Middlename Paternalname Maternalname). I'm just Firstname Middlename Paternalname, and I rather like Paternalname and never really had any intention of changing it (but have always been open to it, depending on how important it wound up being to whoever I married/ our kids/ whatever)

Unfortunately for my fiance, the person from whom Paternalname came from is a total deadbeat who had nothing to do with his upbringing and the one time my fiance reached out to him (as a teenager) he was a complete "glassbowl" to him. Even more unfortunately, he's got this guy's first name, too, and has long resented that fact. So, he sees his immigration and imminent marriage as a way to change all that.

The goal is either to just drop Paternalname and go by Firstname Middlename Maternalname forever OR (and this was his idea) take MY Paternalname in place of that deadbeat's and still have Firstname Middlename WifesPatnernalname Maternalname. I am partial to option 2 myself mostly thinking if we're going to go through what sounds like a LOT of hassle at some point--- it sounds like both dropping a surname and changing one are equally troublesome for males-- may as well do the option that gives us the same surname and sort of messes with tradition a bit-- a favorite pastime of mine

Now, though. It sounds like name changes during AOS/ naturalization is tricky period, and for males in particular. Is this still the case? Someone said something about how you can change your name for free at naturalization if you so desire. Maybe waiting until then makes sense.

The big question is: can he SOCIALLY go by my surname (we're talking Facebook, personal correspondence etc) and Maternalname only for things like banks and bills etc? He already has a bank account with only Maternalname on it-- perfectly legal and appropriate, apparently, and use full name (including deadbeat's) for immigration/legal paperwork alone, until naturalization? Or would this cause problems, too?

He really, seriously wants to get Deadbeat's name out of his life, like, yesterday. I had to twist his arm to write it on our marriage licence (!).

Generally, either spouses can use the other spouse's surname after the marriage is finalized. There may be some sticky situations that prevent you, but that would be because of state or local laws.

I would say that he should be able to use your surname socially/civilly and his maternal surname legally. However, we have hit a road block in this manner for our case. If you chose this, of course, you need to list all previously used names on the AOS.

When I looked into this for our situation (Dallas county) I misunderstood and thought we could use my last name for my husband. He only has one name; for the fiance petition, I chopped the name in half, but DoS gave him the first name of "FNU" and his name as his surname. So this meant, for us to apply the "name change by marriage" deal, we could only change his last name to my last name, which would erase his name! He would still need to keep his dang "FNU"! (First Name Unavailable).

I didn't find all this out until after mailing the AOS documents, so we will need to correct his name after USCIS begins accepting phone calls again. We should be able to finalize his legal name change through the county sometime next month. We just might have his name change done before his EAD/AP/GC gets done!

I have read the same posts you have - that a name change through naturalization is a pain in the neck and only some jurisdictions will do it (something about an administrative hearing or what not). When I was reading some people posting that they feel their name change election delayed their naturalization process, the county name change was the way to go for us.

The thing I am thinking is that he will need to keep paternal last name on his documents unless he legally removes it. I say this because our DMV person and our marriage license person said they had to follow the name that was on his US visa only. If SSA will drop paternal last name, then perhaps he can move forward without paternal last name?

[Pennycat 880]

At this point, my biggest concern is that can he "socially" (like being announced at the wedding, Facebook, personal mail etc) swap out his paternal surname for mine (retaining maternal) or go by maternal alone and we deal with the legal change down the road?

I'm asking because the priest is kind of... well a busybody who doesn't seem to know what he's talking about. And is just another person in a LONG LINE of people who have given really incorrect advice and who my fiance has opted to listen to instead of me. And he said that doing ANY legal name change BEFORE naturalization will completely mess up the immigration process. This is also a man who thinks that it'll be 2 years to naturalization because marriage to a USC chops the time from green card to naturalization in half. Fought with me over it. Scared the bejezus out of him. And no amount of my saying "THE PRIEST IS WRONG PEOPLE DO THIS ALL THE TIME" is getting through.

So now, Walter wants to just casually drop or switch the paternal surname but is too scared to legally change it. I have to write "the script" for the end part of our ceremony for this priest basically right now. So... can I / should I write the script with my surname or not? We will go to SSA (for the first time, after legal marriage) sometime next week. We *will* have the opportunity to bring a certified marriage certificate and register for the first time with my surname if he wants to. But I don't think he's going to take it at this point.

[Amhara 460]

Changing his name now will definitely NOT hurt the immigration process. Using it socially is fine. We are using my husband's future last name on things like YMCA and an online class program. I enrolled him in my health insurance and enrolled him in college using my last name. He was already using his future last name on Facebook when we met. I included the names in the AOS he used, but now I suppose we are going to revert his name to the name on the visa, then to his other name after the court process. The USCIS rep said they can change his name on the application over the phone and I know we can take his name change order to an InforPass once we get that. Worse case scenario is we get an RFE.

I thought I had researched well in our case, so you getting different opinions doesn't surprise me. It's a small area and often governed by county laws. Some people filed AOS under their new married last name and still got an RFE! Those may be cases of the officer overlooking the marriage certificate, but for us, getting the name legally changed now once and for all will be worth it.

Try not to get frustrated with each other. This is just going to be a small pain in the tush until you can get this ironed out. It's confusing and it's really going to be up to the government official looking at your case. He doesn't need to worry about which name he uses in civil matters. Perhaps you guys should submit the AOS paperwork how he wants his name to be, and see how it goes. For us, it hasn't been a huge deal like I thought it would. We had a few frustrated conversations on what his name should be too! Lol!

We weren't able to get his SSN because they said since we were married, his immigration status changed. However, plenty of other people have been able to get it after marriage. Let me know if you were able to get it! We haven't had any problems without the SSN though.

[Villanelle 4,122]

Hmm you have a lot of info here/ Im pretty sure I caught it all but well see!

You got several things going on here. GC/DL/SSN. You have to remember each entity is different. They have different requirements for proof and its a tangled mess to be honest as they rely on each other for verification. The problem most people have is they do things in the wrong order. Then they find themselves trying to go through a door that hasnt been opened yet.

So starting with the GC. It seems you guys are K1s and havent filed for AOS yet... According to USCIS "a man can also take his wife’s surname, adopt a hyphenated combination of his name and his wife’s surname, or the couple may choose a hybrid of their surnames." But this is dependent on it being legally allowed. (this is something new I learned from Ahmaras postings) To take/change a name with USCIS can be done when you file for AOS, when you file for ROC or at naturalization. At AOS or ROC you can alter the surname as stated above- but only the surname. At naturalization you can take any name youd like (alter first middle or last)

http://blog.uscis.gov/2012/05/three-myths-adjustment-of-status.html(link where above quote was taken from)... But heres the thing. In all states apparently the woman can take the mans last name. However there is only a handful of states that allow the man to take the womans name. Texas does not appear to be one of them. Now I looked around online and can not narrow in on anything about that specific phrase 'being legally allowed' in regards to the USCIS. In fact the policy guide online has no reference to men taking womens name in it. (last updated 2005) But the above link is from USCIS and there has been tremendous steps forward recently with same sex marriage and transgender rights.... So Im inclined to believe USCIS will allow groom to take brides last name in most if not all cases, but I would be remiss in not advising you theres a chance they say no because TX doesnt allow for it...

Moving on-

So for USCIS your name is the name on your visa. If you are going to change it during AOS you fill out the AOS paperwork with the name you would like. It becomes 'valid' when they issue either the EAD/AP card or the GC if you elect not to get EAD.

Social Security- A K-1 is eligible for an SSN. The I-94 can be used until 2 weeks left before it expires, so that ship has sailed for you... You would need to wait for the EAD or green card for basically proof of status/ name etc... You can go to SSA after the marriage but they are going to tell you theres nothing they can do for you yet (they dont take NOAs either- must be GC or EAD) or they will tell you its being processed and it just wont go anywhere...But you are basically back to USCIS being first. The name you use with USCIS will be the name SS 'verifies'.(you can search for SS/'SAVE' database on VJ for info and problems people have had) Your SS application must match the name USCIS has for you. Currently you are in USCIS as the name on your visa. If you do not use a new name at AOS the EAD will be issued in the visa name- then later the GC in the same name. SS will be able to issue a number in the visa name once you have the EAD.

If you decide to later change the name (during ROC or really just any day after the GC was issued) they will either tell you to come back with a GC showing the married surname (which you would have to pay for a replacement GC with the new name) OR change it for you based on the marriage certificate. They are suppose to be able to change it based on the marriage certificate but there are many many reports of offices not doing that and requiring it be done at USCIS first. You also need your SSN to match your work document/ So your best bet is to apply with the new name at USCIS and then use the EAD with the new name at SSA.

DL- This is going to vary state by state but generally speaking they require SSN and GC/EAD. Again they want everything to match or its a no go. The SSA can and will change your name due to marriage to whatever you like. Combos- hyphens - whatever. But most if not all state DMVs are using that "Real ID" system so again- it all has to match. (your USCIS document/SS/etc) In some cases the DMV will also use the marriage certificate and only issue it based on the names on that. You should look for threads on VJ about TX DMV.

The other option is doing as Amhara is. Filing for a name change in a local court and then using that. If you do go that route you can either get the name change first then use it when you apply for AOS, OR apply for AOS and then do the name change. If the name change is done before EAD/GC is issued you'll get it in the new name. If its after EAD but before GC you'll get the GC in the right name at least. If its after both you'll pay for the new card fee (about 500$ I think).

As for your main concern- using it socially. lol. You can use whatever youd like socially. Oddly enough I was reading the other day about how a few years ago the state bar in Arizona allowed lawyers to use alternate names outside their practice as long as theres no 'fraudulent or improper motives'. IMO the same basic common sense would apply. Legally USCIS has rules about using the correct legal name on documents they issue etc- but we are not talking about that; were talking socially and USCIS cant govern what you do socially. The only complications I can see is having to list all names used on the forms (typically this just refers to legally used names, not nicknames- however if there is a name on a document you are submitting as evidence the name should be listed as other names used.) You may also benefit from an affidavit stating something along the lines of I use X and Y as names and certify I am the person referred to in each. Could be overkill but better safe then sorry.

Otherwise I think Amhara has given you excellent advice. Immigration is extremely frustrating. Perhaps your spouse would benefit from popping on VJ and looking around? Maybe if he sees multiple opinions all saying what you are he will be more open. He can also read detailed user threads about their processes and outcomes/issues.

[Pennycat 880]

Thank you both so much! One thing? We're in Virginia not Texas but I'll check and see the laws regarding men changing their names due to marriage.

I'd point him to VJ (and have) but he's stronger at the understanding and speaking English than reading and writing (and is in classes for that).

I hadn't thought about needing to change the GC. No way we're paying for that if he misses the boat this time. It'll have to be now or naturalization. The DMV will be the hardest, but plus side: we live in a city and don't own a car and don't plan on doing so for a long time if ever (his employment will determine that) so it is far from urgent. Maybe I'll see if someone at DMV can give a straight answer on "is SS card and GC enough proof of identity" and if not, passport, and marriage certificate will show the name change (if legal for men which gross, honestly).

Otherwise, using my name (or only maternal) socially and waiting for naturalization to ditch the deadbeat will have to be it.

[Amhara 460]

My brother in law and his family live in NC. They may do a name change too and it seems easier than Dallas County. I just did a little research for their area.

The DMV would have changed my husband's last name to mine, but not move his only name to his first name.

Dallas charges about $277, but we filled an affidavit of his financial position as he has no income now. The judge will decide if we need to pay on my income or not. We have to do fingerprints and hope they come back from the state this January. The court can change his name within a few days of getting the clear background and fingerprint check back from the state.

Your DMV might let him change his name on his driver's license using his passport/visa and marriage certificate. Our person at least let me plead my case.

[KayDeeCee 4,893]

Not may states allow for the man to change their name through marriage. I would check with your county clerk to find out your state laws regarding a male changing his name through marriage. If it is allowed, then great. Fill out all the AOS forms in his new married name and use the marriage certificate as proof of legal name change. If they do not allow the man to change his name through marriage, then get a court ordered name change and file for AOS with the proof of name change through the court. It will not hurt the immigration process, even if he changes it later and you show the change of name for ROC instead.

[Villanelle 4,122]

lol my mistake. I looked at your location under your name and saw it said Texas and ran with it.. But duh that was your filing location. It clearly says VA above that! I lived in VA for a while. Its a nice place. Usually the workers in the local offices are pretty helpful.

I did see one webpage from a county in VA that referred to either bride or groom can take others last name. The VA Bar says this:

A. Name Change

Upon marriage, the wife has the option of assuming the husband's last name and traditionally does so, but she is not legally required to change her name. She may keep her name as it was at the time of the marriage without any formal legal proceedings. However, if she has assumed her husband's surname and wants to resume an earlier name, she must petition the circuit court of the city or county where she lives for a legal name change. (A woman may resume her maiden name or prior married name as part of a divorce proceeding.)

Similarly, a wife can assume a combined or hyphenated surname upon marriage without any formal legal proceeding. If the husband wants to do so it is probably best if he petitions for a legal name change.

http://www.vsb.org/site/publications/marriage-in-virginia

Bah. what is that? best if he petitions? Its not saying its not allowed though- just saying it will be headaches... But thats not taking into account he is an immigrant. I would guess for a USC man it would be difficult to get new ID with the wifes name but since hes getting a GC (which is a main form of ID that is cross checked by multiple agencies) So I would think if the GC has the wifes name it should be significantly less issues.

Also Im unclear if he has a DL now or would be getting a first time one? Because thats slightly different. If he doesnt have one then its not a name change per say, its getting it issued properly the first time around. In that case the name change aspect is limited to the fact that some documents are in the previous name and others the new. Its just a matter of connecting the dots for them.

https://www.dmv.virginia.gov/general/#records/update_add.asp

Either way you have to do SSA first- I looked at your timeline again and it seems POE was Oct 24. K1 is 90 days, so I suppose you do currently have more then 2 weeks left on the 94. But I would strongly recommend not going until you have the EAD. As stated they will verify his info against the system which will show the visa name. Technically they should issue it in the visa name and then immediately acknowledge the marriage certificate and change it based on that- but it doesnt always happen. Many workers refuse and tell you to come back when its changed with USCIS.

Save yourself the headache and just wait for the EAD. Apply for AOS with the name you want and hopefully the EAD will come in that name. If/when it does - thats one victory. You can use that as proof in VA BMV for status. It says on their PDF of acceptable docs Employment Auth Doc I766- thats the EAD card. (I dont think Ive ever heard anyone on here refer to it as the 766). So your primary will be the EAD, secondary can be SS card or marriage certificate. Legal presence will be the NOA for AOS.

[Pennycat 880]

lol my mistake. I looked at your location under your name and saw it said Texas and ran with it.. But duh that was your filing location. It clearly says VA above that! I lived in VA for a while. Its a nice place. Usually the workers in the local offices are pretty helpful.

I did see one webpage from a county in VA that referred to either bride or groom can take others last name. The VA Bar says this:

A. Name Change

Upon marriage, the wife has the option of assuming the husband's last name and traditionally does so, but she is not legally required to change her name. She may keep her name as it was at the time of the marriage without any formal legal proceedings. However, if she has assumed her husband's surname and wants to resume an earlier name, she must petition the circuit court of the city or county where she lives for a legal name change. (A woman may resume her maiden name or prior married name as part of a divorce proceeding.)

Similarly, a wife can assume a combined or hyphenated surname upon marriage without any formal legal proceeding. If the husband wants to do so it is probably best if he petitions for a legal name change.

http://www.vsb.org/site/publications/marriage-in-virginia

Bah. what is that? best if he petitions? Its not saying its not allowed though- just saying it will be headaches... But thats not taking into account he is an immigrant. I would guess for a USC man it would be difficult to get new ID with the wifes name but since hes getting a GC (which is a main form of ID that is cross checked by multiple agencies) So I would think if the GC has the wifes name it should be significantly less issues.

Also Im unclear if he has a DL now or would be getting a first time one? Because thats slightly different. If he doesnt have one then its not a name change per say, its getting it issued properly the first time around. In that case the name change aspect is limited to the fact that some documents are in the previous name and others the new. Its just a matter of connecting the dots for them.

https://www.dmv.virginia.gov/general/#records/update_add.asp

Either way you have to do SSA first- I looked at your timeline again and it seems POE was Oct 24. K1 is 90 days, so I suppose you do currently have more then 2 weeks left on the 94. But I would strongly recommend not going until you have the EAD. As stated they will verify his info against the system which will show the visa name. Technically they should issue it in the visa name and then immediately acknowledge the marriage certificate and change it based on that- but it doesnt always happen. Many workers refuse and tell you to come back when its changed with USCIS.

Save yourself the headache and just wait for the EAD. Apply for AOS with the name you want and hopefully the EAD will come in that name. If/when it does - thats one victory. You can use that as proof in VA BMV for status. It says on their PDF of acceptable docs Employment Auth Doc I766- thats the EAD card. (I dont think Ive ever heard anyone on here refer to it as the 766). So your primary will be the EAD, secondary can be SS card or marriage certificate. Legal presence will be the NOA for AOS.

Jeez sorry I meant to reply to this ages ago. Thank you so much for your input. It would be a first-time US drivers' licence and we're in no hurry for it. It seems clear that that is going to be the most difficult part of it, but that once he has both SSN and GC in new name, those are his 2 forms of ID and legal presence so there we have it? I hope, anyway. He's at the Social Security office right now as I'm typing this so I hope we're taking the right course here.

It does seem logical that doing all the US-legal stuff in the same (new) name the first go-round is preferable than doing it with the old name and then changing it all. And everyone seems to say that USCIS, SSA etc accepts this easily. So, if the federal government allows this easily, that's good enough for us, and if the state (VA) gives us any hassle, we'll either wait for the GC to get his DL, or get a legal name change through the court (which is quite literally 5 blocks away from our house). As I said, we do not own a car and have zero intention of doing so any time in the foreseeable future. Sure, it would be nice to get him on my ZipCar membership or to have him share the driving for when/if we rent a car to go somewhere but honestly, we can wait for that. As for travel, just book the flight in his passport name and be done with it. Here's hoping!

[Villanelle 4,122]

How did it go at SS???

[Pennycat 880]

How did it go at SS???

The first visit on Friday, they turned right back around ("they" is a friend of mine who owns his own startup and works from home so has a great degree of flexibility in his schedule and has been super super helpful in driving Walter around during the day for stuff like this). Apparently our local SS office is notorious for being incredibly small and very busy and also very slow. They said the line just to get a number was out the door (into 20 degree temps) and there were at least 30 people in front of them (!). They went to a much further away one yesterday and spent about an hour at the office (2 hours driving and yes apparently this was the preference) and had no problems. He's got two surnames now, first of which is mine <3