OH WHAT A MERRY CHRISTMAS

[TBoneTX 45,155]

A noncontributory post has been removed. Post constructively, or don't post.

[Villanelle 4,122]

So does I-751 waiver relief her of marriage fraud if that was used as the bases for her denial?

I remember OP mentioned that he wrote to USCIS with his evidence as to why he wasn't coming to the interview. Correct me if I am wrong, OP's evidence were to prove fraud.

As of now, OP doesn't know whether his wife was denied per the fraud evidence or refusal to attend the interview.

Enlighten me...Thanks

Your question is more complicated then a simple yes/no answer. Mostly because you are mixing terminology that doesnt go together. There is no 751 waiver for marriage fraud. There are waivers for widow (N/A here), extreme hardship (very difficult and probably N/A here) divorce or abuse.

Assuming the letter she got referenced in this thread was the 'first' denial and not the final ruling by the court- she has the option to appeal. She could theoretically appeal as a joint petition but it wouldnt go anywhere because he is not cooperating. So she would most likely convert to a waiver in the appeal process. She would be left to choose from divorce or abuse. (Yes I know there was no abuse but that doesnt stop scammers from fabricating it to use the waiver-it happens often).

So she would have her new filing grounds- then she would have to overcome the reason for the denial. If it was simply not meeting the joint requirements (him not showing up) then that hurdle is overcome with the waiver. If she was denied for failing to prove bonafides she would have an opportunity to present new evidence in the court of the bonafides as well as have the court re-evaluate the stuff she already submitted. If she was denied due to fraud/suspicion of fraud- she would then have the chance to overcome it in the court. That would make her case insanely more difficult and she would need a good lawyer but it is possible.

OP said his wife committed fraud and I believe he referred to evidence he submitted showing that but (unless I missed it again) he didnt list out specifics of what he sent. Proving fraud to USCIS is very difficult. There are numerous posts in this subsection of people attempting to do so. Most if not nearly all of users who post about it are unsuccessful.

With out reviewing what the OP sent in Im inclined to assume and work with the odds rather then against them (that it wasnt sufficient). There are a few other factors that make me assume there was no finding of fraud. The OP also started this thread by saying the denial stated due to your spouses not appearing at the joint interview you are denied. No mention of failing to produce bonafides or fraud. The OP also states he was requested for the interview twice and declined. So that means any possible finding of fraud would be based solely on the written evidence he submitted. Evidence, no matter what kind or why, is evaluated on its merits. His failing to appear and verify his claims in person could have worked against him. (He could have went to the interview and stated he was withdrawing from the joint petition and asserted his fraud claim- simply showing up does not equal participation in the joint filing)

Since he did not appear (twice) and the petition was denied they are not going to be calling on him to talk to them again any time soon. Unless the issue of fraud comes up again on the waiver filing- then they may attempt to speak with him at that point. He could pro-actively try to speak with FDNS (theres a thread Brian made about that) but again with out knowing the specifics of his evidence its hard to say if that will be fruitful.

Its my understanding from reading this that the OP had/has misconceptions about the process. He felt he could apply jointly and refuse to go and it would cause a denial. Yes, it does and it seems to have 'did' in this case but thats not the end of the road. USCIS has safeguards in place to protect immigrants. No one can hold someones status over them. One can not be malicious or spiteful and back the other person into a corner because everything depends on them. (not at all saying this was the case here). But if the system didnt have safeguards people could do that. So it does.

If a spouse was able to block all further avenues from the other by simply filing for joint ROC and not appearing- well... there would be tons of threads from bitter spouses following that path. Well lets just stay married honey, lets file joint, and then oops Im not going- you are out of luck.

As for the kids- you can check various sources including the K2 guide on VJ-

K-2's Status and Rights Post-Adjustment

A K-2's status is entirely dependent on the K-1's status. If the K-1 doesn't marry the US citizen petitioner then neither the K-1 nor the K-2 can adjust status. If the K-1's AOS is denied then the K-2's AOS is automatically denied. K-2's are conditional residents for the first two years, just like K-1's. K-2's need to apply for removal of conditions just like K-1's. If a K-1's removal of conditions is denied then the K-2's is denied, as well.

There are some exceptions to the above. A K-2 can't apply for US citizenship after three years, while a K-1 who remains married to the US citizen can. A K-2 has to wait five years, just like most other LPR's.

Once a K-2 successfully removes conditions then their status is no longer dependent on the K-1 parent's status.

So its really an all or nothing situation- which is incredibly sad because as stated OP does care for the kids. I would also echo the concerns about the joint biological child they share. Family court does not care about immigration status. Many users here have been there/done that. The only positive is the mother does seem to want the very best for all her kids- so there is a strong chance she gives the dad custody and allows the child to live in the US even if she has to leave.

[IcezMan_IcezLady 582]

Your question is more complicated then a simple yes/no answer. Mostly because you are mixing terminology that doesnt go together. There is no 751 waiver for marriage fraud. There are waivers for widow (N/A here), extreme hardship (very difficult and probably N/A here) divorce or abuse.

Assuming the letter she got referenced in this thread was the 'first' denial and not the final ruling by the court- she has the option to appeal. She could theoretically appeal as a joint petition but it wouldnt go anywhere because he is not cooperating. So she would most likely convert to a waiver in the appeal process. She would be left to choose from divorce or abuse. (Yes I know there was no abuse but that doesnt stop scammers from fabricating it to use the waiver-it happens often).

So she would have her new filing grounds- then she would have to overcome the reason for the denial. If it was simply not meeting the joint requirements (him not showing up) then that hurdle is overcome with the waiver. If she was denied for failing to prove bonafides she would have an opportunity to present new evidence in the court of the bonafides as well as have the court re-evaluate the stuff she already submitted. If she was denied due to fraud/suspicion of fraud- she would then have the chance to overcome it in the court. That would make her case insanely more difficult and she would need a good lawyer but it is possible.

OP said his wife committed fraud and I believe he referred to evidence he submitted showing that but (unless I missed it again) he didnt list out specifics of what he sent. Proving fraud to USCIS is very difficult. There are numerous posts in this subsection of people attempting to do so. Most if not nearly all of users who post about it are unsuccessful.

With out reviewing what the OP sent in Im inclined to assume and work with the odds rather then against them (that it wasnt sufficient). There are a few other factors that make me assume there was no finding of fraud. The OP also started this thread by saying the denial stated due to your spouses not appearing at the joint interview you are denied. No mention of failing to produce bonafides or fraud. The OP also states he was requested for the interview twice and declined. So that means any possible finding of fraud would be based solely on the written evidence he submitted. Evidence, no matter what kind or why, is evaluated on its merits. His failing to appear and verify his claims in person could have worked against him. (He could have went to the interview and stated he was withdrawing from the joint petition and asserted his fraud claim- simply showing up does not equal participation in the joint filing)

Since he did not appear (twice) and the petition was denied they are not going to be calling on him to talk to them again any time soon. Unless the issue of fraud comes up again on the waiver filing- then they may attempt to speak with him at that point. He could pro-actively try to speak with FDNS (theres a thread Brian made about that) but again with out knowing the specifics of his evidence its hard to say if that will be fruitful.

Its my understanding from reading this that the OP had/has misconceptions about the process. He felt he could apply jointly and refuse to go and it would cause a denial. Yes, it does and it seems to have 'did' in this case but thats not the end of the road. USCIS has safeguards in place to protect immigrants. No one can hold someones status over them. One can not be malicious or spiteful and back the other person into a corner because everything depends on them. (not at all saying this was the case here). But if the system didnt have safeguards people could do that. So it does.

If a spouse was able to block all further avenues from the other by simply filing for joint ROC and not appearing- well... there would be tons of threads from bitter spouses following that path. Well lets just stay married honey, lets file joint, and then oops Im not going- you are out of luck.

As for the kids- you can check various sources including the K2 guide on VJ-

K-2's Status and Rights Post-Adjustment

A K-2's status is entirely dependent on the K-1's status. If the K-1 doesn't marry the US citizen petitioner then neither the K-1 nor the K-2 can adjust status. If the K-1's AOS is denied then the K-2's AOS is automatically denied. K-2's are conditional residents for the first two years, just like K-1's. K-2's need to apply for removal of conditions just like K-1's. If a K-1's removal of conditions is denied then the K-2's is denied, as well.

There are some exceptions to the above. A K-2 can't apply for US citizenship after three years, while a K-1 who remains married to the US citizen can. A K-2 has to wait five years, just like most other LPR's.

Once a K-2 successfully removes conditions then their status is no longer dependent on the K-1 parent's status.

So its really an all or nothing situation- which is incredibly sad because as stated OP does care for the kids. I would also echo the concerns about the joint biological child they share. Family court does not care about immigration status. Many users here have been there/done that. The only positive is the mother does seem to want the very best for all her kids- so there is a strong chance she gives the dad custody and allows the child to live in the US even if she has to leave.

Thanks explaining things better.. mentioned I-751 waiver because someone brought it up that she could use that and I wanted to know if she could indeed use that waiver assuming USCIS denied her case on the basis of marriage fraud.

[Harmonia 211]

Great info, Damara.

It seems to me that proving fraud would be very difficult if they have a biological child in common. I read this situation as the OP's wife is just a terrible mother. There are also American women who are terrible mothers, as well as terrible American fathers, who get married and abandon their kids. Doesn't constitute fraud, just being a terrible person.

I just hope the OP does take steps in family court to get custody because his wife isn't going to be deported tomorrow. She's not going anywhere anytime soon, and every day she's here she can potentially abduct their child if for no other reason than to manipulate the father.

I also feel really sad about the joy that (he thinks) his stepkids will also soon be deported. Mind boggling a sole caregiver could feel that way about children used as pawns.

Edited December 30, 2015 by Harmonia

[Unidentified 2,930]

Great info, Damara.

It seems to me that proving fraud would be very difficult if they have a biological child in common. I read this situation as the OP's wife is just a terrible mother. There are also American women who are terrible mothers, as well as terrible American fathers, who get married and abandon their kids. Doesn't constitute fraud, just being a terrible person.

I just hope the OP does take steps in family court to get custody because his wife isn't going to be deported tomorrow. She's not going anywhere anytime soon, and every day she's here she can potentially abduct their child if for no other reason than to manipulate the father.

I also feel really sad about the joy that (he thinks) his stepkids will also soon be deported. Mind boggling a sole caregiver could feel that way about children used as pawns.

No this is more the woman came over to pretend to be a wife so she could gain citizenship kind of bad woman. Do you know how many women there are who thinks that if they just squeeze a kid out they automatically get citizenship? Like a kid proves the relationship is real? It doesn't, it just proves she had sex with someone.

[Harmonia 211]

No this is more the woman came over to pretend to be a wife so she could gain citizenship kind of bad woman. Do you know how many women there are who thinks that if they just squeeze a kid out they automatically get citizenship? Like a kid proves the relationship is real? It doesn't, it just proves she had sex with someone.

I think this woman sucks but "squeeze a kid out", isn't that a bit inhumane to both the woman who gave birth and the child? I've never given birth but I think that's a rather crude description.

[Unidentified 2,930]

I think this woman sucks but "squeeze a kid out", isn't that a bit inhumane to both the woman who gave birth and the child? I've never given birth but I think that's a rather crude description.

Yeah having a baby is a pretty big thing and can be dangerous. But the women who feel they need to have a baby for citizenship doesn't seem to think the same way.

[Ebunoluwa 6,136]

Great info, Damara.

It seems to me that proving fraud would be very difficult if they have a biological child in common. I read this situation as the OP's wife is just a terrible mother. There are also American women who are terrible mothers, as well as terrible American fathers, who get married and abandon their kids. Doesn't constitute fraud, just being a terrible person.

I just hope the OP does take steps in family court to get custody because his wife isn't going to be deported tomorrow. She's not going anywhere anytime soon, and every day she's here she can potentially abduct their child if for no other reason than to manipulate the father.

I also feel really sad about the joy that (he thinks) his stepkids will also soon be deported. Mind boggling a sole caregiver could feel that way about children used as pawns.

Fraud came into the picture when she told him that she only married him so her kids could have a better life. Having a child between them is not

proof of a genuine relationship and that she entered into it genuinely.

OP has no joy in knowing that her two kids would potentially be deported, don't know how you reached that conclusion. He stated he loves all 3 kids.

He offered her a way out to ROC herself with a divorce waiver but she chose not to take his advice and wing it with street advice, her consequences

are hard for the kids but they are her choices.

[qtime 24]

Well, in regards to our daughter her passport has expires so she will not be able to leave the usa because mom failed to apply for a new one. Since she is not divorced she can not renew her passport without my signature. I have no desire to sign for a passport renewal at this time.

When she went to the court hearing the judge informed that come June 6th, she will need to go back to her home country. I believe this was done o the girls could finish up school which ends May 28th.

He also informed her this was final, before advising her of the decision she was asked again if she was ever threatened or abused, or if any of the girls were and again she said no.

The judge stated since she has affirmed that there was no abuse or threats made that the decision was final and she was asked if she understood and she said yes.

[deleted this acco 44]

Sir there must be a reason this woman acted the way she did. We are only hearing one side of the story. She was a good mother before and stated everything she did was to give her kids a better life. Now she will be separated from her daughter. Even if you withhold your signature she is still the mother of the child.

[Villanelle 4,122]

Sounds like you are describing removal proceedings based on her denied ROC. While I understand the Judge was firm in 'this is final' you have to remember you can also appeal an IJs decision if you file a motion to reconsider with in 30 days or a motion to reopen in 90 days. What works against her is that she was repeatedly asked by the interviewing officer(s) and the IJ if there was any abuse and she said NO. To come back with an appeal that then cites abuse waiver-- well stranger things have happened but the odds of being successful are not in her favor.

The only other thing I can add is a link to the Passport Issuance Alert Program- http://travel.state.gov/content/childabduction/en/preventing/passport-issuance-alert-program.html . It may be worth looking into. I also have some concerns about the child having or getting a PI passport. I dont know much about that tbh but what I do know is the PI is very mother oriented so to speak. It is my understanding that if they are still married and she has the proper paperwork she can obtain the passport on her own. No clue if the mother is seeking to take the child if/when she returns to the PI.

I sincerely send my best wishes to the OP and all the children. It truly is a difficult time for all of them.

[Unidentified 2,930]

Sir there must be a reason this woman acted the way she did. We are only hearing one side of the story. She was a good mother before and stated everything she did was to give her kids a better life. Now she will be separated from her daughter. Even if you withhold your signature she is still the mother of the child.

Give her kids a better life by abandoning them? Sure we've only heard one story but it sounds like even her daughters are fed up with her behavior.

[qtime 24]

Today my my ex boarded the plane back to her country along with her daughters except the one without the passport. The Philippine Embassy denied the passport application due to the fact she had filed her marriage with them and asked for my signature. She and her daughters were escorted to the airport and sent on their way. The girls are not happy at all, and I do not blame them. It took a little over 9 month for her to actually go but now I can put the pieces back together. The youngest refused to kiss her mom and told her mom not to call or send her anything which broke my heart. I had to tell her to go hug her mom which she finally did. On the way home she asked if she would have to go visit it her and I told her it was up to her. She said she did not and I said you could always go see your sisters her reply was I can skpye them mommy was very bad too you and she stole my money so I do not need a mommy like that, Again i told her that she should forgive her mom and that maybe when she is ready to go visit I will bring her. 

 

Am I happy about all of this no, and i maintain I am not and will not ever be happy about the out come. I might have sounded joyful but deep down no, not only was my life turned upside down but the girls lives have been turned upside down and now the little one will only be able to skpye with her sisters. I followed the rules and fulifilled my obligations and because of vj I was able to turn a very bad situation into a managable situation. There is light at the end of the tunnel and time will heal old wounds. But there is no bitterness, hatred or angry just pure sadness. Finally post.....................

[TBoneTX 45,155]

Thanks for returning with your update.  Although the end was imperfect, things seem to have worked out in a way that will enable you and the little one to heal.  All the best.

[Harmonia 211]

Before you posted she was leaving last June. What happened between then and now?