Multiple long visits on ESTA VWP How long before i can go back?

[yuna628 9,713]

I want to thank everyone for their responses even if some of them have felt rather harsh to me. Well I just rang the US embassay ESTA department in America and the man said that as he would not be the officer at the POE he could not give a difinitive answer but the fact that I would be looking to spend 5 and a half months in a short period of time that they would probably want to take a closer look at me and it would be up to me to prove i was going back home. Thats not so easy for me as I dont have real ties. no job no rent agreement etc. What other things could I use as proof that im going to return? Would it be better to book a shorter trip? show I have tourist type plans for whilst I am there?

I really am not using the VWP as a way to live in the US I have zero intention of working there and would be returning home at the end of my trip. From everything I have read I realise now that it will be a gamble to return in February after 2 months. I would think I would be allowed to enter but I know it would make things harder to go back for a third time if I chose to. This all seems so unfair that it is so difficult to travel to places for any length of time. I really am not trying to abuse the system to LIVE there. When you fill out the form at POE does it have place to fill out departure date? I dont remember what I had to fill in and wonder if the fact I extended my first trip would count against me or if it would not be on their records? does anyone know this and can anyone give me their experience as to length of time they spent in and out of the country between trips.

Here's the thing. A lot of us that had someone choose to spend longer stays or multi-visits during the year are maybe perhaps boyfriends/girlfriends or husbands/wives. In that, the desire to stay longer or more frequently would almost be more sympathetic or even understandable (though the same rules apply no matter who is using the VWP). Maybe I and several others here might begin to understand your motives (which still remain hazy at best) But you are merely staying with a 'friend' and seem to have a big itch to get back to America fast for some reason. My husband's hardworking family and friends came and spent a week with us a few months ago, they'd love to come back and might do so later next year... but the desire to return isn't because of just wanting to get back to America for some yet unexplained reason, it's because they miss us/love us a great deal. Another UK friend of ours tends to visit every year just to sightsee, they have a lot of fun, but they aren't wanting to constantly make trips into the US to the point they have to question how much time they are spending in/out of it.

The embassy guy echoes the same exact things we have already said to you. If that's not clearer, then I don't know what is.

Proof you could use to return home? You have none. So, hypothetical to you: what happens if you can't prove it and you lose your privileges that you could have managed to maintain if only, you had waited?

You believe the system is unfair that you cannot travel to the US as much as you like. The rules are the rules: follow or don't. It's not like the VWP have hard rules to follow either! Risk losing it, and then you won't be coming back. Keep the following in mind: you are a member of the EU with a vast wealth of countries that you can visit unimpeded. As a US citizen, I cannot do this if I wanted to. I could not even enter your own country in the same manner as you'd like to do here.

camping out for half a year (in total) is living in the US, not visiting. I doubt that you are spending all of that time sightseeing - and likely, CPB will not buy off on that either. Even if living with your 'friend' while here, no one would believe that you have the resources to visit our national parks, take bus, plane or train rides to other cities, feed and house yourself while away from your 'friend', etc, because that would add up to a ton of money - far more than you have or will bring with you on the plane. So, when the option does not exist to be such a thorough tourist, then naturally a CO (if applying for a visa) or a CPB officer at the airport will wonder what is truly occupying all of that time as a 30 year old.....and the first thing that comes to mind is....work. Because claiming that you are just here, 'hanging out' or watching TV is far from credible (and I've had countless visa applicants try that one on me when either their VWP privileges were ended (and I was staring at the I-275, the report sent to our embassies when somebody is denied admission to the US - and in that report, gee, the entire interview with CPB when the alien admitted to working) or somebody who was given a single entry visa, claiming they were going to stay 2 weeks for some (bogus) conference, but stayed 5.9 months.....and were now seeking a new visa...and they could not offer a credible explanation of (a) how they managed to support themselves for such a length of time and (b) what activities were occupying all of the free time? Their answers were so ridiculous that often I had hard time keeping a straight face.....but the common, vague answers were 'hanging out with friends', 'helping friends' and 'watching TV.' For those who claimed to have been watching TV for 6 months, I handed them a sheet of blank paper and told them that I would issue them a visa if they could merely do the following: write down the ten shows you watched the most, with the names of the actors and actresses on those shows and the names of the characters they played, along with the basic plot line of those shows..'...I gave them 15 minutes....and when the time was up, the paper was blank (or they had written '60 Minutes, a news show') and their visa application swiftly denied, and in some cases, for those who finally admitted to have been working, a finding of ineligibility under INA 212 a 6 C I, for having lied to a CO, and having misrepresented their true intentions upon admission into the US, and then engaging in an activity that would have a required a COS to a category that allows work, without the benefit of that COS.

The OP should be aware that CPB can recover your luggage, open it, ask for your cell phone, date books, etc and scour those for evidence that your free time has not been filled sightseeing.....and if you really annoy them or try some creative story to cover your tracks (if they exist) you could easily be looking at a five year ban on readmission that won't be waived for eons. Just something to consider.

Hey, as a CBP officer: have you ever given stronger motivation and consideration to those wishing to stay more frequently in the US because they are coming to visit family or those in a romantic relationship vs those that come and say they are visiting a 'friend' vaguely? You're probably not supposed to, but I wonder if it's something you might think about - if the traveler has a greater reason for wanting to visit more frequently if you get my drift. In the years my husband visited me, it didn't matter his working status or the length of time he stayed (we certainly did not have more than two visits per year), and he was only questioned extensively once. Asking this because as a person on the outside looking in: I'd generally tend to feel more suspicious towards someone constantly wanting to just visit 'a friend' and 'do nothing all day' rather than someone visiting family.

HFM181818 It would be great to get you at a POE or an embassay as I could easily write a list of TV programs I watched and name characters plots not so much the actors and actresses but some of them. I can bring proof of having enough money to visit in the US. I also have bank records showing money transferred from my savings to my bank account and being drawn out in the US at regular intervals to cover my living expenses. While I was in US this time I did visit with friends as well as travel to dallas to meet friends, as my friend is a trainer I was able to go with him to "work" and watch him train as well as go and watch games being played. No disrespect but as a UK citizen that receives free healthcare and benefits as well as easy transportation and has a place to live why would I want to LIVE in america??

As I am staying with my "friend" rent free and he drives me places I want to go how much money would you say is a reasonable amount to have available to me?

Yes my posts may look suspiscous but the fact that I know I am being honest and not wanting to work/earn money in the states nor do I want to over stay my 90days a trip allowance makes me feel a little better about it. It has made me aware however that I will have to be careful and instead of booking 10 weeks i may have to settle for less ad that I will need to be prepared for hassle at the airport. I would hope that the fact that I am genuine would show through. There would be nothing in my luggage or phone to suggest I was coming to work!

Your feeling of being honest doesn't mean much to a CBP nor does your hope of feeling genuine ya know? It's what can you prove and are you abusing the system that counts (let alone the UK system which is another fine kettle of fish).

[concernedesta 2]

OK Yes my motivation to go back is to see my friend! We have not officially said that we are in a relationship but yes we are for all intents and purposes. I would have thought visiting a boyfriend would have given more red flags that I would want to stay in america or that we would get married on the VWP. Surely they would look at me harder taking that into consideration.

[SunflowerSweet 1,321]

OK Yes my motivation to go back is to see my friend! We have not officially said that we are in a relationship but yes we are for all intents and purposes. I would have thought visiting a boyfriend would have given more red flags that I would want to stay in america or that we would get married on the VWP. Surely they would look at me harder taking that into consideration.

Nope. Lying is the biggest red flag.

Stop. Lying.

My boyfriend visited me on the VWP and he was fine. Granted, he only used it once for a little less than a month.

You are going to throw up a red flag anyway as literally everyone has told you. Lying and hiding your true intentions will just make things worse.

[DJ6372 111]

OK Yes my motivation to go back is to see my friend! We have not officially said that we are in a relationship but yes we are for all intents and purposes. I would have thought visiting a boyfriend would have given more red flags that I would want to stay in america or that we would get married on the VWP. Surely they would look at me harder taking that into consideration.

Slowly the truth emerges................maybe i'm not such a cynic after all

[HFM181818 750]

First, I am not a CPB officer, but a retired CO. I have certainly had numerous interactions with CPB over the years and have stood side by side of several while they processed arriving aliens...heard a lot of stories, watched a lot of amusing nonsense when people were quizzed, lied, then had their luggage, cell phones and date books opened up, and inside was evidence of a far different motivation for that arriving alien other than tourism.

While the OP claims not to want to live in the US, the inconsistency in that statement is your urgency to return and desire to remain as long as possible as often as possible....which doesn't sound like you have an overwhelming desire to actually live in the UK, other than long enough to make sure that your dole remains intact.

As far as money, you would need $5000+ to be the tourist you claim you have been or will be for each and every trip and 89 day stay in the US...but it is admittedly cheaper to lounge around the house of your 'friend' (who we now know is more than that) and watch TV but why someone from the UK would prefer the mindless dreck that passes for TV in the US compared to Brit TV is a mystery to me.

[Pennycat 880]

OK Yes my motivation to go back is to see my friend! We have not officially said that we are in a relationship but yes we are for all intents and purposes. I would have thought visiting a boyfriend would have given more red flags that I would want to stay in america or that we would get married on the VWP. Surely they would look at me harder taking that into consideration.

See the issue here now is, as you can see, MANY people from VWP countries have visited girlfriends/boyfriends with no problem AND here, no one is suspicious. However, the combination of your quick return (after maxing out the VWP the first time) and repeated lying (lying by omission even in the face of people questioning it) combined with your looking for ways around the system would and could look to an outside observer that you would do exactly that. Quick returns and obvious attempts at hiding the truth is what loses credibility (I'm talking CBP here but it applies to this site too).

[yuna628 9,713]

Slowly the truth emerges................maybe i'm not such a cynic after all

Or is it the truth...?

We can only hope the CBP figures out what that is next time.

[concernedesta 2]

Yes this is the truth! I met him in the UK 10 years ago we lost contact but reconnected a few years ago in the UK. He returned to US just over a year ago due to his mothers death. I came over to visit america but while I was here pretty much from day 1 we entered a sexual relationship. After spending 10 weeks together pretty much 24/7 we both grew extremely attached to each other (obviously). We have not had a conversation to say yes we are a couple but well do you really have to when we shared a bed every night etc. So now I have returned to the Uk and we were both under the impression that I could return whenever I wanted to stay again. We had planned for me to stay in the UK for a few months (2) and return again to stay for the max. As I dont work and have savings I have the ability to do that without working. I didnt think my relationship with him would have an impact on entry or not and kind of assumed if we were just friends it would be easier but now seeing everything thats bee posted I guess if I dont explain that being with him is why I want to return they may feel I am there for work which once again I am not! I know I keep saying that and people may think i protest too much to that but its the truth. I have never worked in my life that is hardly going to change because I am in the US.

Its not that I am trying to fiddle the VWP or lie to them about my reasons. Its the truth that when I come back I want to be able to do the tourist things, visit attractions and travel in the US as this trip due to circumstances that came up while I was there that wasnt possible.

[concernedesta 2]

And by the way! 2 months does not feel like a quick turn around to me right now it feels like an absolute lifetime!

[Mike-eeh and Odie 193]

Its not that I am trying to fiddle the VWP or lie to them about my reasons. Its the truth that when I come back I want to be able to do the tourist things, visit attractions and travel in the US as this trip due to circumstances that came up while I was there that wasnt possible.

Like I said, both CO's and CBP Officers are not concerned why you want to visit the USA, but more so with why you will return to your country. To almost guarantee yourself no issues when you arrive at POE you have to ask yourself this question:

Why would a young, single woman, with no job or home ownership, with an intimate US boyfriend go back to the UK instead of marrying and adjusting status in the USA?

If you can answer that question to the satisfaction of the CBP officer, you may just earn your additional stay on such a short interval between visits.

Edited December 15, 2015 by Mike-eeh and Odie

[NickandAngi 8]

As an aside, why did you get signed off work 10 years ago at the age of 16 anyway? I think that would help most of us 'cynics' here understand and perhaps remove you from the 'dole-sponge' bucket. So many people in the UK abuse the privilege - I'm sure you've seen the BBC show Saints and Scroungers - it's enough to make any UK taxpayers blood boil.

Separately, if your boyfriend is a coach, is he self-employed? Perhaps he could come out to the UK to visit you for a few weeks in the interim? That would help you in the long-run too if your relationship becomes more serious and you consider going down the whole K1 visa route...

Food for thought anyway.

[Darnell 8,479]

OK Yes my motivation to go back is to see my friend! We have not officially said that we are in a relationship but yes we are for all intents and purposes. I would have thought visiting a boyfriend would have given more red flags that I would want to stay in america or that we would get married on the VWP. Surely they would look at me harder taking that into consideration.

well, hey - let us know if it doesn't work out - there's probably other fellas that would meet your demographic if'n yer truly seeking to live here.....

And by the way! 2 months does not feel like a quick turn around to me right now it feels like an absolute lifetime!

I know, right?

The sidereal motion runs at a different rate, when yer young and in love....

[Darnell 8,479]

Yes this is the truth! I met him in the UK 10 years ago we lost contact but reconnected a few years ago in the UK. He returned to US just over a year ago due to his mothers death. I came over to visit america but while I was here pretty much from day 1 we entered a sexual relationship. After spending 10 weeks together pretty much 24/7 we both grew extremely attached to each other (obviously). We have not had a conversation to say yes we are a couple but well do you really have to when we shared a bed every night etc. So now I have returned to the Uk and we were both under the impression that I could return whenever I wanted to stay again. We had planned for me to stay in the UK for a few months (2) and return again to stay for the max. As I dont work and have savings I have the ability to do that without working. I didnt think my relationship with him would have an impact on entry or not and kind of assumed if we were just friends it would be easier but now seeing everything thats bee posted I guess if I dont explain that being with him is why I want to return they may feel I am there for work which once again I am not! I know I keep saying that and people may think i protest too much to that but its the truth. I have never worked in my life that is hardly going to change because I am in the US.

Its not that I am trying to fiddle the VWP or lie to them about my reasons. Its the truth that when I come back I want to be able to do the tourist things, visit attractions and travel in the US as this trip due to circumstances that came up while I was there that wasnt possible.

CBP officers are usually trained to 'find you' at the immigration point. Even with that said, many VWP folk are let in without much questions.

anyway - sounds like a great re-connection - I remember those 'day 1 sexual relationship' moments, ages past, so whilst I'm smiling at the recollections, I hope you try to further understand what our CBP staffers can really do to you at the POE.

[concernedesta 2]

I was signed off for medical reasons. I dont really want to go into detail about that as its personal but just for the cynics its not easy to get benefits but I do and have done since leaving school so yes it is a genuine case.

As for him visiting trust me I am working on that but at the moment he really needs to be in the US. I will be trying to convince him to come back for a couple of months but its more likely he will return after the summer.

What I am worried about is my proof that I will return back to the UK.... I dont work, live with my mother.... so they are the main ties they look for. The fact that my mother has health problems and I live with her and help her would that be a reason? My grandfather who lives nearby is 95 and is also in bad health. Plus I have to return for medication and to continue to receive benefits. What other things could prove a tie to the UK? Other than the obivous return ticket and money for my stay?

As for finding someone else if it doesnt work out that would be a hell no! As I said I dont want to live in the US. Would much rather he came back to the UK! but at the moment that is not an option for him.

[Darnell 8,479]

did he maintain his dual citizenship stuff? if yes, suggest he seek a gig at the biggest leisure centre in town - they employ coaches and trainers year-round...