Snoopes.com verifies interesting pictures on Muslim protests in UK

[JayJayH 546]

So, a bunch of numptys hold up some signs.

Just have a search on Google images for Westboro Baptist Church and you'll see all sorts of signs being held up by so-called Christians. Do they represent all Christians? Nope.

Same as these idiots don't represent all Muslims

I agree to an extent. The Quran has some pretty nasty stuff in it, but no worse really than the Old Testament.

Burn prostitutes alive - Leviticus 21:1

Stone non-virgins to death on their fathers' doorsteps - Deuteronomy 22:13

Stone rebellious children - Deuteronomy 21:18

The difference is that not a single significant Christian leader or congregation in any somewhat developed country uses passages from the Old Testament to justify murder. Even the most staunch Christian radicals like the Westboro Baptist Church engage in anything more than peaceful protest. You'll have your crazy cult and lone wolf now and then, but there is no religious radicalization problem in Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist etc. communities in any developed nation (except small groups of Jewish extremists in Israel).

I truly wish that the same could be said for Islam.

American Muslims are generally well knit into American society, and hopefully, Donald Trump's latest rants won't change that. In the US, we haven't had this problem on the scale that Europe has, but let's not pretend that there are no problems within Islam that need to be dealt with seriously. The Quran needs to be cherry picked the way the Old Testament is.

Also, keep in mind that while the vast majority of Muslims renounce and deplore ISIS, ISIS is not the only Islamist group around. Al Qaida, the Taliban, Hezbollah, Hamas all renounce ISIS and enjoy varying degrees of support, but are not much less fanatical in their views. Saudi Arabia is fighting Islamist groups left and right, but really, the way they interpret 6th century Islamic law is not much different from ISIS.

Edited December 16, 2015 by JayJayH

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

I agree to an extent. The Quran has some pretty nasty stuff in it, but no worse really than the Old Testament.

Burn prostitutes alive - Leviticus 21:1

Stone non-virgins to death on their fathers' doorsteps - Deuteronomy 22:13

Stone rebellious children - Deuteronomy 21:18

The difference is that not a single significant Christian leader or congregation in any somewhat developed country uses passages from the Old Testament to justify murder. Even the most staunch Christian radicals like the Westboro Baptist Church engage in anything more than peaceful protest. You'll have your crazy cult and lone wolf now and then, but there is no religious radicalization problem in Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist etc. communities in any developed nation (except small groups of Jewish extremists in Israel).

I truly wish that the same could be said for Islam.

American Muslims are generally well knit into American society, and hopefully, Donald Trump's latest rants won't change that. In the US, we haven't had this problem on the scale that Europe has, but let's not pretend that there are no problems within Islam that need to be dealt with seriously. The Quran needs to be cherry picked the way the Old Testament is.

Also, keep in mind that while the vast majority of Muslims renounce and deplore ISIS, ISIS is not the only Islamist group around. Al Qaida, the Taliban, Hezbollah, Hamas all renounce ISIS and enjoy varying degrees of support, but are not much less fanatical in their views. Saudi Arabia is fighting Islamist groups left and right, but really, the way they interpret 6th century Islamic law is not much different from ISIS.

You knocked it out of the park

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

I agree to an extent. The Quran has some pretty nasty stuff in it, but no worse really than the Old Testament.

Burn prostitutes alive - Leviticus 21:1

Stone non-virgins to death on their fathers' doorsteps - Deuteronomy 22:13

Stone rebellious children - Deuteronomy 21:18

The difference is that not a single significant Christian leader or congregation in any somewhat developed country uses passages from the Old Testament to justify murder. Even the most staunch Christian radicals like the Westboro Baptist Church engage in anything more than peaceful protest. You'll have your crazy cult and lone wolf now and then, but there is no religious radicalization problem in Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist etc. communities in any developed nation (except small groups of Jewish extremists in Israel).

I truly wish that the same could be said for Islam.

American Muslims are generally well knit into American society, and hopefully, Donald Trump's latest rants won't change that. In the US, we haven't had this problem on the scale that Europe has, but let's not pretend that there are no problems within Islam that need to be dealt with seriously. The Quran needs to be cherry picked the way the Old Testament is.

Also, keep in mind that while the vast majority of Muslims renounce and deplore ISIS, ISIS is not the only Islamist group around. Al Qaida, the Taliban, Hezbollah, Hamas all renounce ISIS and enjoy varying degrees of support, but are not much less fanatical in their views. Saudi Arabia is fighting Islamist groups left and right, but really, the way they interpret 6th century Islamic law is not much different from ISIS.

There are problems within the government when it comes to Islamic government. Not Islam itself.

[JayJayH 546]

There are problems within the government when it comes to Islamic government. Not Islam itself.

I can agree with that too to an extent. Dr. Reza Aslan has argued that view extensively, and he does a great job at it. I'm not arguing that all Muslims prescribe to dogmatic, literal interpretations of the Quran.

Here's the problem, and I'll use apostasy as an example (though I could just as easily use homosexuality, sex outside marriage or adultery). Every Muslim majority country has laws against apostasy. Not a single non-Muslim majority country has any such laws.

The exceptions to the above are the notoriously secular Turkey and Albania, maybe Tunisia will follow if their secular revolution holds.

"...The Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' " - Bukhari (52:260)

"Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'" - Bukhari (84:57)

"A man who embraces Islam, then reverts to Judaism is to be killed according to "the verdict of Allah and his apostle." - Bukhari (89:271)

"The Messenger of Allah said, "If someone changes his religion - then strike off his head." - al-Muwatta of Imam Malik (36.18.15)

"When a person who has reached puberty and is sane voluntarily apostatizes from Islam, he deserves to be killed." - Reliance of the Traveller (Islamic Law) o8.1

To claim that every Muslim supports these laws is crazy talk. I know plenty of Muslims who cherry pick passages of the Quran and ignore the passages that calls for killing apostates and unbelievers, just like I know plenty of Jews and Christians who cherry pick the parts of the Old Testament they like and ignore Leviticus and Deuteronomy. There were tons of Christians questioning and rebelling against the church back during the 1500s as well. Again, not a single Christian majority country employs Old Testament Biblical law. Not a single Muslim majority country except Turkey and Albania (and perhaps Bosnia) is without some sort of medieval Quranic law. Denying statistics like that isn't really productive, and you really don't have to be a Donald Trump supporter to have a debate about this.

Islam as a whole has never gone through a reformation like Christianity did, and I'm looking forward to the day it does.

Edited December 17, 2015 by JayJayH

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

I can agree with that too to an extent. Dr. Reza Aslan has argued that view extensively, and he does a great job at it. I'm not arguing that all Muslims prescribe to dogmatic, literal interpretations of the Quran.

Here's the problem, and I'll use apostasy as an example (though I could just as easily use homosexuality, sex outside marriage or adultery). Every Muslim majority country has laws against apostasy. Not a single non-Muslim majority country has any such laws.

The exceptions to the above are the notoriously secular Turkey and Albania, maybe Tunisia will follow if their secular revolution holds.

"...The Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' " - Bukhari (52:260)

"Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'" - Bukhari (84:57)

"A man who embraces Islam, then reverts to Judaism is to be killed according to "the verdict of Allah and his apostle." - Bukhari (89:271)

"The Messenger of Allah said, "If someone changes his religion - then strike off his head." - al-Muwatta of Imam Malik (36.18.15)

"When a person who has reached puberty and is sane voluntarily apostatizes from Islam, he deserves to be killed." - Reliance of the Traveller (Islamic Law) o8.1

To claim that every Muslim supports these laws is crazy talk. I know plenty of Muslims who cherry pick passages of the Quran and ignore the passages that calls for killing apostates and unbelievers, just like I know plenty of Jews and Christians who cherry pick the parts of the Old Testament they like and ignore Leviticus and Deuteronomy. There were tons of Christians questioning and rebelling against the church back during the 1500s as well. Again, not a single Christian majority country employs Old Testament Biblical law. Not a single Muslim majority country except Turkey and Albania (and perhaps Bosnia) is without some sort of medieval Quranic law. Denying statistics like that isn't really productive, and you really don't have to be a Donald Trump supporter to have a debate about this.

Islam as a whole has never gone through a reformation like Christianity did, and I'm looking forward to the day it does.

Now that I can agree with you with. Thank you for clarification.