Here’s the TRUE Non-Politically Correct History of Islam’s Violence

[OriZ 3,157]

As for your comment about Islam, do you want me to post the meme comparing Islam to Nazis? I remember you doing it because I was the one who said it was a shame that something so hateful was allowed in the forum.

even the Third Reich used Christianity, any of these ring a bell?

Nobody should be compared to Nazis. Not Muslims, neither Trump. I have made that point several days ago.

As far as them using christianity - Hitler hated Christianity...and religion in general.

Bullock wrote that, "once the war was over, [Hitler] promised himself, he would root out and destroy the influence of the Christian Churches". Phayer wrote that "By the latter part of the decade of the thirties church officials were well aware that the ultimate aim of Hitler and other Nazis was the total elimination of Catholicism and of the Christian religion. Since the overwhelming majority of Germans were either Catholic or Protestant this goal had to be a long-term rather than a short-term Nazi objective."According to Shirer, "under the leadership of Rosenberg, Bormann and Himmler—backed by Hitler—the Nazi regime intended to destroy Christianity in Germany, if it could, and substitute the old paganism of the early tribal Germanic gods and the new paganism of the Nazi extremists". Gill wrote that the Nazi plan was to "de-Christianise Germany after the final victory". Dill states, "It seems no exaggeration to insist that the greatest challenge the Nazis had to face was their effort to eradicate Christianity in Germany or at least to subjugate it to their general world outlook." According to Bendersky, it was Hitler's long range goal to eliminate the churches once he had consolidated control over his European empire"

In 1999 Julie Seltzer Mandel, while researching documents for the "Nuremberg Project", discovered 150 bound volumes collected by Gen. William Donovan as part of his work on documenting Nazi war crimes. Donovan was a senior member of the U.S. prosecution team and had compiled large amounts of evidence that Nazis persecuted Christian churches. In a 108-page outline titled "The Nazi Master Plan" Office of Strategic Services investigators argued that the Nazi regime had a plan to reduce the influence of Christian churches through a campaign of systematic persecutions. "Important leaders of the National Socialist party would have liked to meet this situation [of church influence] by complete extirpation of Christianity and the substitution of a purely racial religion," said the report. The most persuasive evidence came from "the systematic nature of the persecution itself."

In Hitler's scheme for the Germanization of Eastern Europe, there was to be no place for Christian churches. For the time being, he ordered slow progress on the 'Church Question'. 'But is clear', noted Goebells, himself among the most aggressive anti-church radicals, 'that after the war it has to be solved... There is, namely, an insoluble opposition between the Christian and a Germanic-heroic world-view". Bullock wrote that "once the war was over, [Hitler] promised himself, he would root out and destroy the influence of the Christian churches, but until then he would be circumspect": Writing for Yad Vashem, the historian Michael Phayer wrote that by the latter 1930s, church officials knew that the long term aim of Hitler was the "total elimination of Catholicism and of the Christian religion".

In his memoirs, Hitler's chief architect Albert Speer recalled that when drafting his plans for Hitler's "new Berlin", when he told Hitler's private secretary Martin Bormann that he had consulted with Protestant and Catholic authorities over the locations for churches: "Bormann curtly informed me that churches were not to receive building sites.

Edited December 12, 2015 by OriZ

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

Nobody should be compared to Nazis. Not Muslims, neither Trump. I have made that point several days ago.

As far as them using christianity - Hitler hated Christianity...and religion in general.

Bullock wrote that, "once the war was over, [Hitler] promised himself, he would root out and destroy the influence of the Christian Churches". Phayer wrote that "By the latter part of the decade of the thirties church officials were well aware that the ultimate aim of Hitler and other Nazis was the total elimination of Catholicism and of the Christian religion. Since the overwhelming majority of Germans were either Catholic or Protestant this goal had to be a long-term rather than a short-term Nazi objective."According to Shirer, "under the leadership of Rosenberg, Bormann and Himmler—backed by Hitler—the Nazi regime intended to destroy Christianity in Germany, if it could, and substitute the old paganism of the early tribal Germanic gods and the new paganism of the Nazi extremists". Gill wrote that the Nazi plan was to "de-Christianise Germany after the final victory". Dill states, "It seems no exaggeration to insist that the greatest challenge the Nazis had to face was their effort to eradicate Christianity in Germany or at least to subjugate it to their general world outlook." According to Bendersky, it was Hitler's long range goal to eliminate the churches once he had consolidated control over his European empire"

In 1999 Julie Seltzer Mandel, while researching documents for the "Nuremberg Project", discovered 150 bound volumes collected by Gen. William Donovan as part of his work on documenting Nazi war crimes. Donovan was a senior member of the U.S. prosecution team and had compiled large amounts of evidence that Nazis persecuted Christian churches. In a 108-page outline titled "The Nazi Master Plan" Office of Strategic Services investigators argued that the Nazi regime had a plan to reduce the influence of Christian churches through a campaign of systematic persecutions. "Important leaders of the National Socialist party would have liked to meet this situation [of church influence] by complete extirpation of Christianity and the substitution of a purely racial religion," said the report. The most persuasive evidence came from "the systematic nature of the persecution itself."

In Hitler's scheme for the Germanization of Eastern Europe, there was to be no place for Christian churches. For the time being, he ordered slow progress on the 'Church Question'. 'But is clear', noted Goebells, himself among the most aggressive anti-church radicals, 'that after the war it has to be solved... There is, namely, an insoluble opposition between the Christian and a Germanic-heroic world-view". Bullock wrote that "once the war was over, [Hitler] promised himself, he would root out and destroy the influence of the Christian churches, but until then he would be circumspect": Writing for Yad Vashem, the historian Michael Phayer wrote that by the latter 1930s, church officials knew that the long term aim of Hitler was the "total elimination of Catholicism and of the Christian religion".

In his memoirs, Hitler's chief architect Albert Speer recalled that when drafting his plans for Hitler's "new Berlin", when he told Hitler's private secretary Martin Bormann that he had consulted with Protestant and Catholic authorities over the locations for churches: "Bormann curtly informed me that churches were not to receive building sites.

I was going off of this:

Richard Steigmann-Gall saw evidence of a "Christian element" in Hitler's early writings.^[42] Steigmann-Gall wrote that while use of the term "positive Christianity" in the Nazi Party Program of 1920 is commonly regarded as a tactical measure", he himself believes that it was "more than a political ploy for winning votes" and instead adhered to an "inner logic".^[66] Though anti-Christians later fought to "expunge Christian influence from Nazism" and the movement became "increasingly hostile to the churches", Steigmann-Gall wrote that even in the end, it was not "uniformly anti-Christian".^[44] Even after a rupture with institutional Christianity (which he dated to around 1937), Steigmann-Gall saw evidence that Hitler continued to hold Jesus in high esteem, considering him to have been an Aryan fighter who struggled against Jewry.^[43] In Hitler's view, Jesus' true Christian teachings had been corrupted by the apostle Paul, who had transformed them into a kind of Jewish Bolshevism, which Hitler believed preached "the equality of all men amongst themselves, and their obedience to an only god. This is what caused the death of the Roman Empire."^[67] Steigmann-Gall concluded that Hitler was religious at least in the 1920s and early 1930s, citing him as expressing a belief in God, divine providence, and Jesusas an Aryan opponent of the Jews.^[68] However, he admits that by holding this position he "argues against the consensus that Nazism as a whole was either unrelated to Christianity or actively opposed to it."^[69]

There was also a quote saying that their movement was based on Christian faith, but I think that was just propaganda.

Edited December 12, 2015 by Stay Woke

[GandD 5,966]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Adolf_Hitler

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

I think perhaps I have caused you to misunderstand my stance, and that is probably the fault of the meme(s) I have posted that perhaps were not very accurate. Sometimes, I post things that I don't necessarily agree with 100%, as I am sure many here do. They are sometimes posted out of frustration, other times to show what other people are thinking. So let me put things into my own words, in the hopes that you will not misjudge me for things I have not said.

First off, I have never hated a muslim. Nor do I think all are extremists. Only a complete idiot (well, a bigot, technically) would think that. I have only personally known a handful of followers of islam, and they were some of the nicest, most respectable people I have ever met. Never once did I "fear for my life", nor harbor a desire to get them out of my neighborhood. In fact, I am so NOT anti-islam that I applied for two different jobs in islamic-predominant foreign countries, knowing I would have to adapt some of their ways if I were to live in peace with them and was willing to do that; however, neither job transpired. Which is sad, not only because the jobs were interesting, but it would give me a chance to live in another culture and experience their ways.

I also don't think we should turn our backs on the Syrian refugees that require asylum based on their beliefs. If they can pass a thorough vetting process, then by all means, let them in. What DOES chap my cheeks, besides a brisk, cold wind, is when you see reports of a group of muslims moving into an area, then saying how everything around them offends them and their culture/religion. THAT is BS, IMHO. If you go somewhere other than where you were born, expect there to be challenges fitting in, and expect that YOU may have to change your ways to adapt, not the people who lived in the area (city/state/country, etc.) for decades.

I made the statement that you were not a true muslim, or dabbled, because you were not born into the religion, nor do you live in a place where it is the all-encompassing belief system. Whether you did it because of your wife, or because you wanted to see what it was all about, or because you wanted to strap bombs to your chest (I jest, I jest)... that is completely up to you, and thankfully in America, you have the freedom to do that. And because we live in America, you probably also have nothing to fear if you try it, don't like it, and want to move on. As far as I am concerned, I do not care if one calls him/herself a muslim, christian, catholic, buddhist, jew; whatever they want to claim as a spiritual reference point, as long as that person is what I call a person of good moral character. After all, that's the premise behind every religion (mostly), is to get people to live a good life and treat others well; in other words, to control the masses. I am not a religious person, per se, but I do believe that good morals are vital to our existence on this earth. Kind of separates us from the animals, eh? So to summarize, if I offended you by alluding to you not being a devout muslim because you did not have it ingrained into you from the moment of birth as many do, I apologize. If you take it seriously, and live a good life because of it, then good on you (though I must throw this in... if you ARE a good muslim, living a good life, and caring for others around you, it probably has very little to do with the quran, and more to do with the core YOU in the first place. But that's just my non-religious way of thinking.)

So now you have MY words, and if you want to use any of them against me, feel free, we can discuss at length.

The memes I re-post, the article I posted here, are not (in entirety) my words nor my thoughts. I may agree with some, or most, or very little, of the things I re-post. Rarely all. I do it to share what I have read, to allow others to learn what I am learning, so that they may form their own opinions. So please do not assume that by me posting an article that says muslims are responsible for millions of deaths over the years, I think all muslims are extremists. I do not claim to know it all, and in fact, I learn things on this forum that I would otherwise never have learned, because there is quite a diversity of backgrounds and thought processes, and some very intelligent people on here. It's nice not to always "hang with" people who feel the same way I do, because it encourages growth, understanding, and perhaps even a shift of beliefs. Anything is possible, if one only opens his/her mind.

As for your dedication to the religion, I don't judge like some bugs from the middle of summer do. If you want to eat a McRib sammich, go for it. I'd never ask you to give up a meal in favor of an archaic religious "norm".

My former wife was a devout Muslim like her family. Yet they didn't go around killing people. And I didn't dabble for "curiosity", I converted. I'm sorry that because I lived my life not killing infidels I'm not qualified in your eyes. I fasted, read the Quran, and lived by the faith just like if I was a Christian. But your comments and memes of Islam shows me where you stand so it doesn't really matter.

Let's get to the meat of the problem. You believe that Muslims are all extremists and kill for any random reason, hence the reason why I'm not considered a TRUE Muslim. This is your premise.

As for your comment about Islam, do you want me to post the meme comparing Islam to Nazis? I remember you doing it because I was the one who said it was a shame that something so hateful was allowed in the forum.

Um, duh. MLK, who was basically Black Jesus, was a registered Republican. Before the Southern strategy, the GOP was for minorities and civil rights. Now, look where the KKK and hate groups throw their support. It ain't the Democrats.

Um, the Crusades, the Witch Hunts of Salem, the Grand Inquisitions, even the Third Reich used Christianity, any of these ring a bell?

And you say small, the entire country was built on the contributions of slavery. No one is blaming you about that, I don't know why you think the song is about you.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

I think perhaps I have caused you to misunderstand my stance, and that is probably the fault of the meme(s) I have posted that perhaps were not very accurate. Sometimes, I post things that I don't necessarily agree with 100%, as I am sure many here do. They are sometimes posted out of frustration, other times to show what other people are thinking. So let me put things into my own words, in the hopes that you will not misjudge me for things I have not said.

First off, I have never hated a muslim. Nor do I think all are extremists. Only a complete idiot (well, a bigot, technically) would think that. I have only personally known a handful of followers of islam, and they were some of the nicest, most respectable people I have ever met. Never once did I "fear for my life", nor harbor a desire to get them out of my neighborhood. In fact, I am so NOT anti-islam that I applied for two different jobs in islamic-predominant foreign countries, knowing I would have to adapt some of their ways if I were to live in peace with them and was willing to do that; however, neither job transpired. Which is sad, not only because the jobs were interesting, but it would give me a chance to live in another culture and experience their ways.

I also don't think we should turn our backs on the Syrian refugees that require asylum based on their beliefs. If they can pass a thorough vetting process, then by all means, let them in. What DOES chap my cheeks, besides a brisk, cold wind, is when you see reports of a group of muslims moving into an area, then saying how everything around them offends them and their culture/religion. THAT is BS, IMHO. If you go somewhere other than where you were born, expect there to be challenges fitting in, and expect that YOU may have to change your ways to adapt, not the people who lived in the area (city/state/country, etc.) for decades.

I made the statement that you were not a true muslim, or dabbled, because you were not born into the religion, nor do you live in a place where it is the all-encompassing belief system. Whether you did it because of your wife, or because you wanted to see what it was all about, or because you wanted to strap bombs to your chest (I jest, I jest)... that is completely up to you, and thankfully in America, you have the freedom to do that. And because we live in America, you probably also have nothing to fear if you try it, don't like it, and want to move on. As far as I am concerned, I do not care if one calls him/herself a muslim, christian, catholic, buddhist, jew; whatever they want to claim as a spiritual reference point, as long as that person is what I call a person of good moral character. After all, that's the premise behind every religion (mostly), is to get people to live a good life and treat others well; in other words, to control the masses. I am not a religious person, per se, but I do believe that good morals are vital to our existence on this earth. Kind of separates us from the animals, eh? So to summarize, if I offended you by alluding to you not being a devout muslim because you did not have it ingrained into you from the moment of birth as many do, I apologize. If you take it seriously, and live a good life because of it, then good on you (though I must throw this in... if you ARE a good muslim, living a good life, and caring for others around you, it probably has very little to do with the quran, and more to do with the core YOU in the first place. But that's just my non-religious way of thinking.)

So now you have MY words, and if you want to use any of them against me, feel free, we can discuss at length.

The memes I re-post, the article I posted here, are not (in entirety) my words nor my thoughts. I may agree with some, or most, or very little, of the things I re-post. Rarely all. I do it to share what I have read, to allow others to learn what I am learning, so that they may form their own opinions. So please do not assume that by me posting an article that says muslims are responsible for millions of deaths over the years, I think all muslims are extremists. I do not claim to know it all, and in fact, I learn things on this forum that I would otherwise never have learned, because there is quite a diversity of backgrounds and thought processes, and some very intelligent people on here. It's nice not to always "hang with" people who feel the same way I do, because it encourages growth, understanding, and perhaps even a shift of beliefs. Anything is possible, if one only opens his/her mind.

As for your dedication to the religion, I don't judge like some bugs from the middle of summer do. If you want to eat a McRib sammich, go for it. I'd never ask you to give up a meal in favor of an archaic religious "norm".

Well to be fair, you posted this article with the following commentary:

"Something to think about before you go about your day defending islam. I had no idea the number of murders committed with the backing of this religion. Particularly against blacks. One would think that with islam doing so much to eradicate blacks from the face of the earth, there would be more said about it, and less acceptance."

This kind of flies in the face of acceptance when you're talking about a religion this way. You've also made comments that at least folks are crazy in Christianity when it comes to shootings, basically saying that Muslims that kill are of sound mind. So you can see why I think you have a problem with Islam.

I've met devout Muslims that act just like a devout Christian. There isn't a difference. If you look at the OT in the bible, you should be put to death for following any other god, or even wearing two different type of cloth, or working on Saturday. It's the same thing, but folks want to focus on the Quran because it's different...

At the end of the day, Muslims want to follow their faith and live in peace just like the rest of us. There are some nut bags out there, and we have them too. Judge people by their own actions, not by the actions of others.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

When I talked about "crazy" christians murdering people, I was referring to the fact that most of them are mentally ill to some degree or other. Why else would they go out and kill a bunch (or even one) of people? Muslim extremists are not mentally ill to the same degree as a person who kills on their own. They get together, decide on a target, plan the event, and undertake. Sometimes alone, but often in groups. That is different from a lone, crazy killer such as the Sandy Hook nut job. They have their jihad, their ideals; they are not killing because they are mentally unstable (well, perhaps they are, but not clinically so, I would wager).

Of course, I am operating under the premise that people like the SH shooter professed to be christian. Kind of hard to actually identify as a religious person while committing mass murder. Kind of hard to identify with being a good human being while killing people, as well.

There seem to have been a lot of extremists over the past several hundred years murdering in the name of islam. Kind of gives a bad name to the ones who lead normal, respectable lives. The trouble here is that said extremists never claim to be extreme; they do their deeds in the name of allah or islam or jihad or whatever. They purposely associate their deeds with the religion. So I think it is only natural for there to be a general feeling of bad will towards islam, even if it is unfair to the good muslims. If a group of people suddenly started committing acts of terror in the name of Joseph Smith, the mormons would suffer in general, wouldn't they?

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

When I talked about "crazy" christians murdering people, I was referring to the fact that most of them are mentally ill to some degree or other. Why else would they go out and kill a bunch (or even one) of people? Muslim extremists are not mentally ill to the same degree as a person who kills on their own. They get together, decide on a target, plan the event, and undertake. Sometimes alone, but often in groups. That is different from a lone, crazy killer such as the Sandy Hook nut job. They have their jihad, their ideals; they are not killing because they are mentally unstable (well, perhaps they are, but not clinically so, I would wager).

Of course, I am operating under the premise that people like the SH shooter professed to be christian. Kind of hard to actually identify as a religious person while committing mass murder. Kind of hard to identify with being a good human being while killing people, as well.

There seem to have been a lot of extremists over the past several hundred years murdering in the name of islam. Kind of gives a bad name to the ones who lead normal, respectable lives. The trouble here is that said extremists never claim to be extreme; they do their deeds in the name of allah or islam or jihad or whatever. They purposely associate their deeds with the religion. So I think it is only natural for there to be a general feeling of bad will towards islam, even if it is unfair to the good muslims. If a group of people suddenly started committing acts of terror in the name of Joseph Smith, the mormons would suffer in general, wouldn't they?

What makes you think a person who murders people for an ideology not crazy?