Here’s the TRUE Non-Politically Correct History of Islam’s Violence

[smilesammich 10,727]

People can believe what they want so long as they don't impose it on others or abuse others rights. Atheism isn't better than religion as a belief system but some people sure seem to think it is.

sorry had to sully this thread to respond to this..

i'm fully aware that people can believe whatever they want, and i am probably one of the more vocal supporters of that premise here on vj. i never push atheism on anyone. and honestly, this is one of the few times i've stated my personal beliefs regarding the religious because i've quite had enough of the religious hypocrisy on this site (and in the world, for that matter) which vj assisted very nicely in proving this point. threads bashing islam day in and day out, posters bashing islam left and right ... not a peep.

and as sousuke said above, atheism is not a religion.

Practically it is. Argue terminology if you want but it's missing the point.

You don't need to be religious to be a bigot but it helps.

You can be an atheist but but it doesn't mean you're not bigoted.

clarify your point then.

[DavenMaura 62]

Life is better when you live and let live. Accept people are religious and show some respect for that even if you don't believe what they do.

Not talking about extremists but people who find value in religion to live their lives. I'm not religious but I don't go around calling people cowards because they happen to worship and go to church.

You sound to me like you have something to prove. Not believing doesn't mean you're better.

[smilesammich 10,727]

Life is better when you live and let live. Accept people are religious and show some respect for that even if you don't believe what they do.

Not talking about extremists but people who find value in religion to live their lives. I'm not religious but I don't go around calling people cowards because they happen to worship and go to church.

You sound to me like you have something to prove. Not believing doesn't mean you're better.

awesome. got you pegged! carry on.

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

Life is better when you live and let live. Accept people are religious and show some respect for that even if you don't believe what they do.

Not talking about extremists but people who find value in religion to live their lives. I'm not religious but I don't go around calling people cowards because they happen to worship and go to church.

You sound to me like you have something to prove. Not believing doesn't mean you're better.

I believe in live and let live when it comes to religion, but not when someone else's beliefs impinge upon my liberties. I have no respect for belief systems that would impose any obligations or restrictions upon me as a non-believer.

Edited December 9, 2015 by Killary

[OnMyWayID 1,489]

sorry had to sully this thread to respond to this..

i'm fully aware that people can believe whatever they want, and i am probably one of the more vocal supporters of that premise here on vj. i never push atheism on anyone. and honestly, this is one of the few times i've stated my personal beliefs regarding the religious because i've quite had enough of the religious hypocrisy on this site (and in the world, for that matter) which vj assisted very nicely in proving this point. threads bashing islam day in and day out, posters bashing islam left and right ... not a peep.

and as sousuke said above, atheism is not a religion.

Atheist here.. It is not hypocrisy to look at a religion that can coexist in a secular society (even when it is the dominant religion) and compare it to another religion that generally can't and point that out - and to be concerned. When Islam is the dominant religion in a country it more often than not is bad for those living under the yoke ("bad" being defined as rights for women, gays, freedom of speech, technological advances, economic advances, freedom from religion, freedom to change religion, personal choice, etc).

[Dakine10 5,452]

Umm, should you or I be saying 3 Hail Marys?

Rather heavy handed modding on this thread IMO.

I suspect G's Sundays are full of Hail Mary's. I know mine are.

Edited December 9, 2015 by Dakine10

[smilesammich 10,727]

Atheist here.. It is not hypocrisy to look at a religion that can coexist in a secular society (even when it is the dominant religion) and compare it to another religion that generally can't and point that out - and to be concerned. When Islam is the dominant religion in a country it more often than not is bad for those living under the yoke ("bad" being defined as rights for women, gays, freedom of speech, technological advances, economic advances, freedom from religion, freedom to change religion, personal choice, etc).

well, i agree to a point. when i am defending followers of islam and their religious freedom - i'm focused on the us, because we have religious freedom. i do not agree that islam can't coexist in secular society, because it does here in the us. further, i don't believe any country can go into another country and remove a particular religious belief by force..

and as dave said above, i've got something to prove - basically that christians in the united states live in a bubble, think their ish don't stink (i.e their extremists 'aren't that bad'), but their christian fundamentalists are still backwards when it comes to rights for women, gays, science, tolerance, etc. case in point, one of their extremists recently shot up a planned parenthood, and christianity has a whole did not have to go out and adamantly deny christianity had anything to do with it, they didn't have to claim him as theirs at all.

of course no one can point that out, because immediately someone says "but islam is so much worse"

[Dakine10 5,452]

Atheist here.. It is not hypocrisy to look at a religion that can coexist in a secular society (even when it is the dominant religion) and compare it to another religion that generally can't and point that out - and to be concerned. When Islam is the dominant religion in a country it more often than not is bad for those living under the yoke ("bad" being defined as rights for women, gays, freedom of speech, technological advances, economic advances, freedom from religion, freedom to change religion, personal choice, etc).

It often works that way when fundamentalism and politics is mixed. Many examples historically in Christianity as well. There was a reason the founding fathers went to great lengths to ensure separation of church and state. It wasn't because they didn't like God.

Take Azerbaijan as an example of a country with a constitutionally secular government and whose majority is Islamic. Minorities don't walk around in fear of persecution because of who they are. You can yell that the big guy sucks (whichever one you choose, even Allah) and you aren't going to disappear.

Several countries in my lifetime where the religious leaders became intertwined with the political leaders, and I'm hard pressed to think of any where life got better for people who didn't or couldn't conform to the party ideology.

[smilesammich 10,727]

It often works that way when fundamentalism and politics is mixed. Many examples historically in Christianity as well. There was a reason the founding fathers went to great lengths to ensure separation of church and state. It wasn't because they didn't like God.

it was that they had their own ideas concerning the concept of god, a very popular take at the time was deism. basically the founding fathers were hippies who felt the presence of 'god' in nature. god is evident in the reality of the earth that we live on..

bunch of heathens those founding fathers.

[Dakine10 5,452]

it was that they had their own ideas concerning the concept of god, a very popular take at the time was deism. basically the founding fathers were hippies who felt the presence of 'god' in nature. god is evident in the reality of the earth that we live on..

bunch of heathens those founding fathers.

True, many were deist's. Many of them also had seen or had first hand knowledge of persecution by governments with absolute power. That's why many of the colonists were in America in the first place.

[Dakine10 5,452]

Atheism, technically, is not a belief system.

I think there are people with a dogmatic approach to it that I would consider it a belief system. Lord Infamous come's to mind. Although technically, I suppose he was an anti-theist.

[crazyworld 54]

Religion - Wow, What a hot subject besides politics here!

My take on religion:

i think it was started a long time ago to keep the small unknowing population calm and under control when mother nature did something that could not be explained like earthquakes, volcanoes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters. As it grew, it evolved with rituals and sacrifices and leaders started to use it for their own benefits because people felt safer having someone explaining to them what was going around them that caused death and destruction. As it spread to different tribes, it would be interpreted a little differently as needed by the ruler of that tribe. Some tribes did not have a lot of contact with other tribes so again over time what started out as the same religion was now quit different from tribe to a far away tribe. Now add a couple of million people as the world populated and a couple of thousand years and now you have many religions. Leaders were now using it now as a means to keep power over their people and spread their empires. Now a days we many versions of religion, and each of the versions of religions now have many off spring, some good and some bad. The bible for instance, look how many versions there are.

That being said, I do think we need religion because as said before, some people would be lost without it but hopefully they pick a good safe religion to follow that doesn't infringe on the lives or rights of others. I believe something had to start the spark of life for evolution to start and I will call him god, others might have a different name for him but same thing and until science proves differently, I'll stick to this story.

I have not gone to church for over 40 years except for weddings and now I am going every Saturday night with my mum for the last 2 and 1/2 months since my fiance left back for England. I look around at the couple of dozen people there and they are mostly elderly, they look lonely, and it is probably the high lite of their week so it can't be a bad thing. The reason I go is so when my fiance gets here, we will hopefully be permitted to married in my mums church, this is one of the best presents I can ever give her in her eyes so I'm happy to do it. After were married probably not be going as often, who knows.

This is my take on religion, I not meant to offend anybody, just my 2 cents worth!

[smilesammich 10,727]

That being said, I do think we need religion because as said before, some people would be lost without it but hopefully they pick a good safe religion to follow that doesn't infringe on the lives or rights of others.

and this is actually where my brainwashing comment stems from, people do not usually 'pick' a religion. a religion picks them via birth. for the most part they follow the religion they were raised in and carry those religious traditions onward.

and then there are the immense number of people who claim a religion for certain traditional benefits - for example, i do not believe in god or jesus but i put up a christmas tree every year and did the santa bit with my son. i would never allow my son to go to religious christian ceremony (when he was young and impressionable) but we did the easter bunny deal. i used what i wanted of christianity because it was convenient for me and it is what is the norm in this country..

[Teddy B 17,252]

There haven't been many good cults as of late. I think I'll start one.

[smilesammich 10,727]

There haven't been many good cults as of late. I think I'll start one.

i'll bring toddlers and kool aide.