Here’s the TRUE Non-Politically Correct History of Islam’s Violence

[Dakine10 5,452]

. . . You keep bringing up slavery in this country without recognizing islam was the main factor for the slaves being here ... in the first place. .

The main factor here - in America - was actually the slave buyers, who were by and large colonial American land owners. To ignore that is just asinine. If there were no American slave buyers there wouldn't be slaves here period. How the hell you can miss that fact is beyond me.

As far as traders/sellers, they came from a multitude of places, including indigenous tribes. Let's not forget the European traders that bought and captured slaves in Africa to sell in America. They were also sellers who profited in the trade of human beings. They were not bystanders.

[Jacque67 7,328]

The main factor here - in America - was actually the slave buyers, who were by and large colonial American land owners. To ignore that is just asinine. If there were no American slave buyers there wouldn't be slaves here period. How the hell you can miss that fact is beyond me.

As far as traders/sellers, they came from a multitude of places, including indigenous tribes. Let's not forget the European traders that bought and captured slaves in Africa to sell in America. They were also sellers who profited in the trade of human beings. They were not bystanders.

+1

[X Factor 1,112]

It often works that way when fundamentalism and politics is mixed. Many examples historically in Christianity as well. There was a reason the founding fathers went to great lengths to ensure separation of church and state. It wasn't because they didn't like God.

Take Azerbaijan as an example of a country with a constitutionally secular government and whose majority is Islamic. Minorities don't walk around in fear of persecution because of who they are. You can yell that the big guy sucks (whichever one you choose, even Allah) and you aren't going to disappear.

Several countries in my lifetime where the religious leaders became intertwined with the political leaders, and I'm hard pressed to think of any where life got better for people who didn't or couldn't conform to the party ideology.

Azerbaijan just has an image of tolerance. But it is persecuting folks (journalist, women and religious groups)

http://www.amnestyusa.org/our-work/countries/europe/azerbaijan

http://www.persecutionblog.com/2012/08/church-suffers-again-in-azerbaijan.html

http://www.jw.org/en/news/legal/by-region/azerbaijan/azerbaijan-arrest-detention-20150519/

Edited December 10, 2015 by X Factor

[Dakine10 5,452]

The current president managed to get term limits abolished and restrict freedom of the press prior to the 2010 election. Never a good sign. Hopefully they can turn it back around.

Like many FSU countries, they need to get rid of the old boy network.

Azerbaijan just has an image of tolerance. But it is persecuting folks (journalist, women and religious groups)

http://www.amnestyusa.org/our-work/countries/europe/azerbaijan

http://www.persecutionblog.com/2012/08/church-suffers-again-in-azerbaijan.html

http://www.jw.org/en/news/legal/by-region/azerbaijan/azerbaijan-arrest-detention-20150519/

[smilesammich 10,727]

You ask how can someone support Islam, considering how the KKK and every single hate extremist group in the country uses Christianity as it's mantra, how can you follow Christ?

it would be super awesome if you got a legit answer on this one. i don't expect it, but i have a feeling if you do, it will go along the lines of the kkk not being real christians..

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

it would be super awesome if you got a legit answer on this one. i don't expect it, but i have a feeling if you do, it will go along the lines of the kkk not being real christians..

But yet if a Muslim goes on a killing spree, he's a Muslim, through and through.

[Ban Hammer 13,714]

But yet if a Muslim goes on a killing spree, he's a Muslim, through and through.

nope, because real muslims don't do that.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

nope, because real muslims don't do that.

Yep.

[ExPatty 502]

Anybody who has researched this even a tiny bit, like spent 30 minutes on google, knows that there is something unique about islam and its expressions via violence that no other modern religion has. It is responsible for the bulk of terrorism across the world (statistical fact). Also, something we don't regularly hear but all know, is that much of this violence is due to passages directly taken from the koran; it is not a bastardization or perversion of the religion, but merely a different interpretation of it.

Finally, something we also don't hear so much, is that all the experts on islam and counter-terrorism actually agree with this. So, while people like hillary clinton as a matter of policy refuse to say radical islam http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/06/politics/hillary-clinton-radical-islam/the fact is all the security agents know it is that exactly and they are not stupid. The people in bernadino have since, for example, had multiple local mosques looked at in relation to the event. The law enforcement community knows there is something unique about the violence that some proponents of islam condone and engage in.

A large problem is that most of us are stupid and want to see matters in black and white. This is why some people say all muslims are bad and others say that islam is equal to other religions. Both such views are wrong. As with much in life there is a gray reality that simple black and white viewpoints are insufficient in recognizing.

Edited December 10, 2015 by ExPatty

[Sousuke 1,214]

The main factor here - in America - was actually the slave buyers, who were by and large colonial American land owners. To ignore that is just asinine. If there were no American slave buyers there wouldn't be slaves here period. How the hell you can miss that fact is beyond me.

As far as traders/sellers, they came from a multitude of places, including indigenous tribes. Let's not forget the European traders that bought and captured slaves in Africa to sell in America. They were also sellers who profited in the trade of human beings. They were not bystanders.

Turning up the controversy of this thread a bit. I've seen claims that statistically, Jewish southerners bought and owned a higher percentage of slaves than any other group. I haven't investigated this claim yet, but I was surprised to hear it at all.

[smilesammich 10,727]

Anybody who has researched this even a tiny bit, like spent 30 minutes on google, knows that there is something unique about islam and its expressions via violence that no other modern religion has. It is responsible for the bulk of terrorism across the world (statistical fact). Also, something we don't regularly hear but all know, is that much of this violence is due to passages directly taken from the koran; it is not a bastardization or perversion of the religion, but merely a different interpretation of it.

Finally, something we also don't hear so much, is that all the experts on islam and counter-terrorism actually agree with this. So, while people like hillary clinton as a matter of policy refuse to say radical islam http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/06/politics/hillary-clinton-radical-islam/the fact is all the security agents know it is that exactly and they are not stupid. The people in bernadino have since, for example, had multiple local mosques looked at in relation to the event. The law enforcement community knows there is something unique about the violence that some proponents of islam condone and engage in.

A large problem is that most of us are stupid and want to see matters in black and white. This is why some people say all muslims are bad and others say that islam is equal to other religions. Both such views are wrong. As with much in life there is a gray reality that simple black and white viewpoints are insufficient in recognizing.

no. this is where you lose me. all religions in america are equal, in that no one can be persecuted for choosing a particular religion. so islam, in this country is equal to other religions. there's no grey area. the grey area comes up in personal interpretation, same as christianity, same as judaism, same as satanism, same as luciferism, same as whatever religion you hold up to the lens. religions are different things to different people. there's really no way to quantify it. same as there is no way to end a religion by force, or oppress a particular religious people into shedding their faith. that sort of approach will only have the opposite affect. in my mind it isn't that no one talks about the violence that comes out of the koran, it's just that nothing can be done about it. same as nothing can be done about the violence that comes out of any other 'holy book'.

i keep two framed bookplates in my living room, one is a picture of abraham following his son up the mountain with kindle, the other is the story of abraham dutifully readying to sacrifice his son as god had told him to do. it is one of my favorite bible stories because it shows how archaic and violent the old testament god is. that story scarred me as a kid, because i was afraid my parents might hear god tell them to kill me and they wouldn't question him. and think of all the parents who have heard voices and murdered their children. yet this story is taught in elementary age sunday school classes. nothing can be done with the story, it is what it is. what sort of violence it evokes going forward is solely dependent upon the reader's interpretation.

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

Turning up the controversy of this thread a bit. I've seen claims that statistically, Jewish southerners bought and owned a higher percentage of slaves than any other group. I haven't investigated this claim yet, but I was surprised to hear it at all.

Interesting article in The Atlantic on this topic. The accusations came from the Nation of Islam.

There are several interrelated problems with this study. It sets out to reshape the prevailing historical record concerning the treatment of Africans and African-Americans during the period of the slave trade and slavery. Far from asking any question at all, this book begins with an answer--that Jews were especially important in exploiting Africans. It is able to demonstrate, at least ostensibly, that they were. This is the central difficulty: the book sets out to prove a thesis and pays little attention to evidence that might modify or contradict it. If one were to inquire more neutrally into what role Jews played in the Atlantic slave trade, one would find that it was a considerable one during the formative years of the trade, in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries, and a very small one when the trade reached much greater volume, in the eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries. This change in the role of Jews relative to the roles of other Europeans had to do with shifts in power and culture that occurred among various Atlantic-European nations over a period of some 500 years.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1995/09/slavery-and-the-jews/376462/

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

Anybody who has researched this even a tiny bit, like spent 30 minutes on google, knows that there is something unique about islam and its expressions via violence that no other modern religion has. It is responsible for the bulk of terrorism across the world (statistical fact). Also, something we don't regularly hear but all know, is that much of this violence is due to passages directly taken from the koran; it is not a bastardization or perversion of the religion, but merely a different interpretation of it.

Finally, something we also don't hear so much, is that all the experts on islam and counter-terrorism actually agree with this. So, while people like hillary clinton as a matter of policy refuse to say radical islam http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/06/politics/hillary-clinton-radical-islam/the fact is all the security agents know it is that exactly and they are not stupid. The people in bernadino have since, for example, had multiple local mosques looked at in relation to the event. The law enforcement community knows there is something unique about the violence that some proponents of islam condone and engage in.

A large problem is that most of us are stupid and want to see matters in black and white. This is why some people say all muslims are bad and others say that islam is equal to other religions. Both such views are wrong. As with much in life there is a gray reality that simple black and white viewpoints are insufficient in recognizing.

Speaking as someone who spent a few years reading the Quran and interacting with Muslims, I can tell you that's flat out rubbish. Muslims in general are no more violent than any other person of faith.

[X Factor 1,112]

Finally, something we also don't hear so much, is that all the experts on islam and counter-terrorism actually agree with this. So, while people like hillary clinton as a matter of policy refuse to say radical islam http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/06/politics/hillary-clinton-radical-islam/the fact is all the security agents know it is that exactly and they are not stupid. The people in bernadino have since, for example, had multiple local mosques looked at in relation to the event. The law enforcement community knows there is something unique about the violence that some proponents of islam condone and engage in.

A large problem is that most of us are stupid and want to see matters in black and white. This is why some people say all muslims are bad and others say that islam is equal to other religions. Both such views are wrong. As with much in life there is a gray reality that simple black and white viewpoints are insufficient in recognizing.

No matter what we argue about in this forum; the fact is the above highlighted activity is taking place after such a horrible attack. It's the responsible thing to do.

If a Hindu or Christian or other nut job is involved in an incident the responsible thing is to investigate the places where he got the ideas.

[ExPatty 502]

no. this is where you lose me. all religions in america are equal, in that no one can be persecuted for choosing a particular religion. so islam, in this country is equal to other religions.

This is a super silly viewpoint. Legally equal does not mean equal. It's like saying I'm equal to michael phelps at swimming because the law protects our ability to access water equally. I've seen a lot of mental gymnastics but none quite so desperate as yours with that sentence. it doesn't even make any sense. Extending your logic the koran is the same as the bible is the same as a spaghetti monster textbook; a mosque is the same as a church or a synagogue.

there's really no way to quantify it.

On the contrary here it is quantifed for you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_States#Pew_Research_Center_data

in my mind it isn't that no one talks about the violence that comes out of the koran, it's just that nothing can be done about it.

So because you start with the belief that nothing can be done about radical islam you pretend it doesn't exist or at the least don't want to talk about it.

Your story about the old testament is good but it also illustrates the point that virtually no jews happen to go along with the violence encouraged in the old testatment, in stark contrast to the many muslims who do go along with the violence encouraged in the koran. That's really the point I'm trying to make to begin with.

Speaking as someone who spent a few years reading the Quran and interacting with Muslims, I can tell you that's flat out rubbish. Muslims in general are no more violent than any other person of faith.

Which point specifically is "rubbish", the statistical fact that islam is behind most of the world's terrorism? Are you questioning that?

Edited December 10, 2015 by ExPatty