Needed Domestic Disarment, Not 'Gun control '

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

How does Ireland even have a million firearms? Oh wait it doesn't. Singapore? You got to be kidding me?

You do understand the concept of a baseline, don't you? They could have made it per 100,000 firearms, or per 1,000.

There are approximately 200,000 legally owned firearms in Ireland last I checked.

Edited December 8, 2015 by ROYGBP

[Boiler 46,246]

The graph is labeled gun homicides per million firearms. What am I missing?

Ohh dear. Another child left behind.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

How many guns can your average gun nut fire at one time? Perhaps more sane people give them wider berth?

First off, there is no such thing as "average gun nut". Average gun owners and "gun nuts" are two distinctly different terms that are not well understood by the uninformed.

As to how many guns can be fired at one time, well, that all depends on your level of training.

[Póg mo 1,749]

You do understand the concept of a baseline, don't you? They could have made it per 100,000 firearms, or per 1,000.

There are approximately 200,000 legally owned firearms in Ireland last I checked.

I understand the concept, yes. I just don't think it makes sense to extrapolate Irish gun homicides from such a small number, and use this number to suggest that the United States is somehow safer. There are 270,000,000+ guns in the united States, or 0.84 guns per person, Ireland on the other hand has 200,000 guns or about 0.04 guns per person. Now, given that most gun owners in Ireland own maybe three guns at most, or more likely one, it seems reasonable that Irish gun owners probably don't have the same level experience handling firearms, and are as a result more likely to be injured. Perhaps this is why gun Irish homicide rates can be made to appear worse than those in the United States.

[Boiler 46,246]

[Póg mo 1,749]

First off, there is no such thing as "average gun nut". Average gun owners and "gun nuts" are two distinctly different terms that are not well understood by the uninformed.

As to how many guns can be fired at one time, well, that all depends on your level of training.

Where did I say there wasn't a distinction? If I had meant to say gun owner, I would have. I don't have a problem with gun owners. My beef is with guns nuts, who think their rights are more important than everyone elses.

[DavenMaura 62]

Fact remains, that as gun ownership has risen, homicides have actually gone down.

Can you argue with numbers? They don't argue back, they just sit there all pretty staring at you.

You can argue with numbers. Unless you want to assume that crime stats have always been gathered and categorised the same way. You could argue that murders have gone down because some incidents marked down as firearm related homicide are no longer categorised as murder.

That's what happens all the time with employment statistics. The politicians claim to have lowered unemployment when all they have done is change the criteria for what counts as 'unemployed'

Edited December 8, 2015 by DavenMaura

[Boiler 46,246]

Where did I say there wasn't a distinction? If I had meant to say gun owner, I would have. I don't have a problem with gun owners. My beef is with guns nuts, who think their rights are more important than everyone elses.

I also have a beef with people who want their Constitutional rights, how dare they.

[Póg mo 1,749]

You can argue with numbers. Unless you want to assume that crime stats have always been gathered and categorised the same way. You could argue that murders have gone down because some incidents marked down as firearm related homicide are no longer categorised as murder.

That's what happens all the time with employment statistics. The politicians claim to have lowered unemployment when all they have done is change the criteria for what counts as 'unemployed'

Of course, as mark Twain once quoted former British Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli as saying: There are lies, damn lies, and statistics.

[Póg mo 1,749]

I also have a beef with people who want their Constitutional rights, how dare they.

What about the right not to get shot at work or in a school?

[Janelle2002 3,865]

Fewer people own guns, yet there are more guns owned today. That means that the number of owners has decreased, but the number of guns per person has gone up. While gun homicides have gone down. Which can be interpreted to mean that with more guns in the hands of RESPONSIBLE gun owners, there is less to fear.

As in, one person with 5000 guns? Lol

[Janelle2002 3,865]

Of course, as mark Twain once quoted former British Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli as saying: There are lies, damn lies, and statistics.

That used to be in my signature. Great quote. Statistics are manipulative data used to support a biased view.

[OriZ 3,157]

You can argue with numbers. Unless you want to assume that crime stats have always been gathered and categorised the same way. You could argue that murders have gone down because some incidents marked down as firearm related homicide are no longer categorised as murder.

That's what happens all the time with employment statistics. The politicians claim to have lowered unemployment when all they have done is change the criteria for what counts as 'unemployed'

Ahhh now you're going into my field. Look I'd be happy to tell you unemployment has not dropped at all sinec 2009 but the fact is it has. You just need to know where to look. Yes, the U-3 employment numbers do not include those who gave up looking for a job, or those who work part time. But even if you look at the U6 unemployment rate you can see that it's dropped. It's just higher than the U3 figure. Simple as that.

http://www.macrotrends.net/1377/u6-unemployment-rate

Edited December 8, 2015 by OriZ

[DavenMaura 62]

Ahhh now you're going into my field. Look I'd be happy to tell you unemployment has not dropped at all sinec 2009 but the fact is it has. You just need to know where to look. Yes, the U-3 employment numbers do not include those who gave up looking for a job, or those who work part time. But even if you look at the U6 unemployment rate you can see that it's dropped. It's just higher than the U3 figure. Simple as that.

http://www.macrotrends.net/1377/u6-unemployment-rate

But proving that unemployment has fallen (or not fallen) won't prove that murder rates have fallen with rising gun ownership.

Numbers shouldn't be taken at face value. People who lost money in Enron would have learned that the hard way.

[Dakine10 5,452]

You do understand the concept of a baseline, don't you? They could have made it per 100,000 firearms, or per 1,000.

There are approximately 200,000 legally owned firearms in Ireland last I checked.

Murder rate per fire arm is a dubious statistical quantifier. There is an inherent bias toward countries where it's common for individuals to own multiple firearms.