Mass shooting - San Bernardino

[smilesammich 10,727]

Some news photographer taped a few twigs to his cabin to call him a Christian .. Makes the story better right.

what? dude. christians don't like it when someone who claims christianity does something horrific. i'd like to find an example of such a phenomenon occuring in another religion..but i just can't think of anything.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

For those who do not understand why/where the reluctance to excuse a religion from playing a part in the destruction of mankind, I offer you this as a thing to consider.:

"We are told again and again by "experts" and "talking heads" that Islam is the religion of peace, and that the vast majority of Muslims just want to live in peace. Although this unquantified assertion may be true, it is entirely irrelevant. It is meaningless fluff, meant to make us feel better, and meant to somehow diminish the specter of fanatics rampaging across the globe in the name of Islam.

The fact is, that the fanatics rule Islam at this moment in history. It is the fanatics who march. It is the fanatics who wage any one of 50 shooting wars world wide. It is the fanatics who systematically slaughter Christian or tribal groups throughout Africa and are gradually taking over the entire continent in an Islamic wave. It is the fanatics who bomb, behead, murder, or honor kill. It is the fanatics who take over mosque after mosque. It is the fanatics who zealously spread the stoning and hanging of rape victims and homosexuals. The hard quantifiable fact is, that the "peaceful majority" is the "silent majority" and it is cowed and extraneous.

History lessons are often incredibly simple and blunt, yet for all our powers of reason we often miss the most basic and uncomplicated of points. Peace-loving Muslims have been made irrelevant by the fanatics. Peace-loving Muslims have been made irrelevant by their silence. Peace-loving Muslims will become our enemy if they dont speak up, because like my friend from Germany, they will awake one day and find that the fanatics own them, and the end of their world will have begun. Peace-loving Germans, Japanese, Chinese, Russians, Rwandans, Bosnians, Afghans, Iraqis, Palestinians, Somalis, Nigerians, Algerians, and many others, have died because the peaceful majority did not speak up until it was too late. As for us who watch it all unfold, we must pay attention to the only group that counts; the fanatics who threaten our way of life."

[Boiler 46,272]

When was there a time that fanatics did not run Islam?

Colorado appears to let all types in.

You can blame that on Hickenlooper, I have a feeling we will see a change.

[smilesammich 10,727]

ah well, i can see conservatives just can't help themselves in shooting off from the hip. 9/11 happened, we all went to kill iraq. islamic terrorism exists so yall want to end islam. good luck with that. keep praying!

[lostinblue 1,989]

When was there a time that fanatics did not run Islam?

You can blame that on Hickenlooper, I have a feeling we will see a change.

That is a good question . The Islamic slave trade has been going on for 1500 years

[-relo- 105]

ah well, i can see conservatives just can't help themselves in shooting off from the hip. 9/11 happened, we all went to kill iraq. islamic terrorism exists so yall want to end islam. good luck with that. keep praying!

why would you think that? the guns clearly took control of these peoples thought process & forced them to go kill people. it has nothing to do with the teachings of islam.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

No difference between this and other shootings. ... wow is all I am allowed to say without being banned from this forum. But then again that how liberals will spin it in the news media (MSNBC ) ect . .. no difference . They made IED'S and attacked a Christmas party . .... all relevant . By attacking a Christian tradition they attacked all Christianity . The only similar attempted attack was trying to assassinate Pam Geller in Texas last year.

Only one week ago on 60 minutes we were warned about soft targets.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/576851-counterterrorism-expert-dont-wait-for-uncle-sam-to-protect-you/

What wow? The Colorado Theater shooter was solo and got roughly similar kill and injury numbers.

I appreciate your desire to act like this was, not looks like it probably will turn out to be, Radical Islamic Terrorism. But the fact remains that we see this type of mass shooting so often in the US that no, it's not a whole lot different. Discusting. Yes. Stupid and senseless. Yes. People dead and injured by a holes armed with guns. Not sure what the effective difference between the common mass shooting incidents we see all the time and this one even if the motivation turns out to be Radical Islamic Terrorism.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

While I am by no means an expert on the qaran, isn't one of the basic tenets outlined therein that infidels should convert to islam or die? And that if a person does convert, if he/she ever changes their mind and wants to go back, that he/she should be stoned or killed or something to that effect? Call me crazy, but I would say this has more to do with the actions of the followers of islam than of what those guns go around putting into their minds.

why would you think that? the guns clearly took control of these peoples thought process & forced them to go kill people. it has nothing to do with the teachings of islam.

[smilesammich 10,727]

why would you think that? the guns clearly took control of these peoples thought process & forced them to go kill people. it has nothing to do with the teachings of islam.

i'm not really sure what you're getting at but let me reassure you that it's nowhere near my thought process. are you proposing that islam has special powers of mind control? or guns have special powers of mind control? WOW maybe allah is more powerful than jesus.

[smilesammich 10,727]

While I am by no means an expert on the qaran, isn't one of the basic tenets outlined therein that infidels should convert to islam or die? And that if a person does convert, if he/she ever changes their mind and wants to go back, that he/she should be stoned or killed or something to that effect? Call me crazy, but I would say this has more to do with the actions of the followers of islam than of what those guns go around putting into their minds.

that is obviously what extremists of the religion believe, what do you propose we do about it? shall we go to war with a religion? how does that go down, exactly? maybe we should look at the definition of religion and first try to determine how a super power military such as ours pursues the death of a BELIEF. i'm not being facetious, i want to know how you think the taking down of islam should be accomplished..

[JohnR! 5,495]

However well articulate, the plagiarized text you cite was lifted from a book entitled "Islam: A Threat to Civilization," authored by W. F. Russel - no pun intended.The author has reserved the copyright. Hardly an original idea, with flimsy unsubstantiated claims.

For those who do not understand why/where the reluctance to excuse a religion from playing a part in the destruction of mankind, I offer you this as a thing to consider.:

"We are told again and again by "experts" and "talking heads" that Islam is the religion of peace, and that the vast majority of Muslims just want to live in peace. Although this unquantified assertion may be true, it is entirely irrelevant. It is meaningless fluff, meant to make us feel better, and meant to somehow diminish the specter of fanatics rampaging across the globe in the name of Islam.

The fact is, that the fanatics rule Islam at this moment in history. It is the fanatics who march. It is the fanatics who wage any one of 50 shooting wars world wide. It is the fanatics who systematically slaughter Christian or tribal groups throughout Africa and are gradually taking over the entire continent in an Islamic wave. It is the fanatics who bomb, behead, murder, or honor kill. It is the fanatics who take over mosque after mosque. It is the fanatics who zealously spread the stoning and hanging of rape victims and homosexuals. The hard quantifiable fact is, that the "peaceful majority" is the "silent majority" and it is cowed and extraneous.

History lessons are often incredibly simple and blunt, yet for all our powers of reason we often miss the most basic and uncomplicated of points. Peace-loving Muslims have been made irrelevant by the fanatics. Peace-loving Muslims have been made irrelevant by their silence. Peace-loving Muslims will become our enemy if they dont speak up, because like my friend from Germany, they will awake one day and find that the fanatics own them, and the end of their world will have begun. Peace-loving Germans, Japanese, Chinese, Russians, Rwandans, Bosnians, Afghans, Iraqis, Palestinians, Somalis, Nigerians, Algerians, and many others, have died because the peaceful majority did not speak up until it was too late. As for us who watch it all unfold, we must pay attention to the only group that counts; the fanatics who threaten our way of life."

Yes, they copied that from the chrisitians, apparently.

While I am by no means an expert on the qaran, isn't one of the basic tenets outlined therein that infidels should convert to islam or die? And that if a person does convert, if he/she ever changes their mind and wants to go back, that he/she should be stoned or killed or something to that effect? Call me crazy, but I would say this has more to do with the actions of the followers of islam than of what those guns go around putting into their minds.

[smilesammich 10,727]

Not sure what the effective difference between the common mass shooting incidents we see all the time and this one even if the motivation turns out to be Radical Islamic Terrorism.

the difference is aurora, the planned parenthood shooting last week, those shootings don't fit the agenda. i wouldn't be at all surprised if some here thought those shootings were false flags to further obama's gun grab agenda. pretty common belief in conservative circles. see how quickly lib jumped in to question the planned parenthood shooter's christianity.

[cdneh 3,112]

I cannot recall an incident of 'workplace violence' where more than a single shooter was involved. Anybody? Usually it seems one person with a grudge against the boss, or other employees, blows a gasket and goes postal. Seemed odd to me that two were involved, if that is the label they are pinning on this.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

where did he say he was a devout Christian ?

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2015/12/01/3727084/yes-the-planned-parenthood-shooter-was-a-christian-terrorist/

One person who spoke with [Dear] extensively about his religious views said Mr. Dear, who is 57, had praised people who attacked abortion providers, saying they were doing “God’s work.” In 2009, said the person, who spoke on the condition of anonymity out of concerns for the privacy of the family, Mr. Dear described as “heroes” members of the Army of God, a loosely organized group of anti-abortion extremists that has claimed responsibility for a number of killings and bombings.

The Times reporter also interviewed a close relative of Dear’s Colorado girlfriend Stephanie Bragg, who said the couple were “very religious, read the Bible often and are always talking about scripture.” The two reportedly lived in a trailer marked with a small cross, and that Bragg couldn’t believe Dear was “capable of such things.”

Another report from the Charleston Post and Courier claimed that Dear was obsessed with an interpretation of the Christian apocalypse, and used dark, bizarre theology to justify disturbing acts of domestic violence against his ex wife.

Mr. Dear described as “heroes” members of the Army of God, a loosely organized group of anti-abortion extremists.

“He claims to be a Christian and is extremely evangelistic, but does not follow the Bible in his actions,” Mescher, Dear’s ex-wife, reportedly stated in an affidavit when she filed for divorce. “He says that as long as he believes he will be saved, he can do whatever he pleases. He is obsessed with the world coming to an end.”

[-relo- 105]

i'm not really sure what you're getting at but let me reassure you that it's nowhere near my thought process. are you proposing that islam has special powers of mind control? or guns have special powers of mind control? WOW maybe allah is more powerful than jesus.

I'm trying to channel my inner liberal for answers to why this happened. My inner liberal might be wrong. What do you think caused the murders of innocent people in san bernadino yesterday? Edited December 3, 2015 by -relo-