Mass shooting - San Bernardino

[smilesammich 10,727]

It seems that once you mention any type of gun control whatsoever, you're automatically labeled an anti gun nazi. At least that's the trend here on VJ.

it's the trend elsewhere too.

[Boiler 46,277]

Here is something from the Guardian:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2015/dec/04/afraid-of-guns-buy-more-guns-the-circle-of-life-in-america

Is this what you want?

Edited December 4, 2015 by Boiler

[Ban Hammer 13,656]

It seems that once you mention any type of gun control whatsoever, you're automatically labeled an anti gun nazi. At least that's the trend here on VJ.

kinda like making any rational defense of owning guns makes one a "gun nut" ..............

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

Ok, so let's talk about what further gun control measures should be put into place.

Waiting times.

How long does one currently have to wait to buy a handgun? What's the federal law on that? What is the state law? (I'll help you here. There should be a federal mandate in place, and the waiting time could be extended to a month to allow for more thorough background checks. For the very same reason that you cannot fully vet a refugee in a few days; it takes TIME to conduct a thorough background check. And lots of money. My last clearance cost over $10,000 and wasn't complete for about 4 months).

How easy is it to buy a machine gun? (I mean, this has to be the ULTIMATE mass murder weapon, right?) Can any normal person buy one? If so, what date is critical to owning it? What is the process for purchasing one? (If you can find a way to make this MORE restrictive or controlled, you will win the internets for a week!)

And before you go too far in trying to further controls these WMD, consider that a fully auto machine gun goes for between $12,000 for an Uzi up to $15-25K for an AR-15 style. Kind of eliminates your average crackhead from the purchasing pool. I'd think.

So what methods do you think we can put into place to better control the flow of guns? And bear in mind, that anything we do today only controls the sale of new guns from now on. It does nothing for the millions of guns that are already out there. But wait, there's MORE!!

If I purchase a gun tomorrow, with all the controls anyone wishes to put into place, and I wait my 30/60/90 days for the Feds to decide I deserve to own a gun, because I AM a responsible person, and there is a 0.0000126% chance I will ever use said gun on someone to do them harm.... then you come along, break into my house, steal my gun (because you AREN'T able to buy one legally), and go kill your ex because he cheated on you. Or a bunch of school kids because you had your lunch money stolen when you were in school. Or a bunch of people at a Christmas party because you hate parties, or Xmas, or America. Whatever. Just how effective was all that gun control? Not only were you easily able to bypass all those controls, you were also able to forego the (now higher due to more stringent BG checks) cost of purchasing the gun. Win/win for you!!

I am ALL FOR a winning solution, and I suspect that 99% of RESPONSIBLE gun owners are as well. (people who think gun owners don't care if people are murdered, or that they want it to happen are their own special brand of idiot) Unfortunately, I just don't see anything working that has been offered up as a viable solution, particularly when you take into account all the guns that are already on the street, unregistered. Of course, we have to start sometime, and it will obviously take YEARS for the full benefits to be realized, probably won't see it in our lifetimes. But yes, it IS too easy for criminals or insane people to get a gun and wield death with it.

i'm learning real quick that there is zero tolerance of any talk of the sort, once you mention trying to make guns more difficult to obtain - all conversation shuts down. just insane that logic and reason do not apply to gun control in the country. not even discussion.

but does paris and london also have school shootings, work place shootings, drive by shootings, accidental toddler shootings, an absurd number of suicides by gun? or can we only talk about gun violence carried out by islamic extremists?

[Boiler 46,277]

Waiting times.

How long does one currently have to wait to buy a handgun? What's the federal law on that? What is the state law? (I'll help you here. There should be a federal mandate in place, and the waiting time could be extended to a month to allow for more thorough background checks. For the very same reason that you cannot fully vet a refugee in a few days; it takes TIME to conduct a thorough background check. And lots of money. My last clearance cost over $10,000 and wasn't complete for about 4 months).

What are you checking?

How easy is it to buy a machine gun? (I mean, this has to be the ULTIMATE mass murder weapon, right?) Can any normal person buy one? If so, what date is critical to owning it? What is the process for purchasing one? (If you can find a way to make this MORE restrictive or controlled, you will win the internets for a week!)

And before you go too far in trying to further controls these WMD, consider that a fully auto machine gun goes for between $12,000 for an Uzi up to $15-25K for an AR-15 style. Kind of eliminates your average crackhead from the purchasing pool. I'd think.

Theoretically possible and I know just one person who could but as you say horribly expensive and a lot of hassle and expense. As far as I know despite all the comments about Assault Rifles, one has never been used in such an incident.

So what methods do you think we can put into place to better control the flow of guns? And bear in mind, that anything we do today only controls the sale of new guns from now on. It does nothing for the millions of guns that are already out there. But wait, there's MORE!!

If I purchase a gun tomorrow, with all the controls anyone wishes to put into place, and I wait my 30/60/90 days for the Feds to decide I deserve to own a gun, because I AM a responsible person, and there is a 0.0000126% chance I will ever use said gun on someone to do them harm.... then you come along, break into my house, steal my gun (because you AREN'T able to buy one legally), and go kill your ex because he cheated on you. Or a bunch of school kids because you had your lunch money stolen when you were in school. Or a bunch of people at a Christmas party because you hate parties, or Xmas, or America. Whatever. Just how effective was all that gun control? Not only were you easily able to bypass all those controls, you were also able to forego the (now higher due to more stringent BG checks) cost of purchasing the gun. Win/win for you!!

Or buy it from your local Mexican crack dealer?

I am ALL FOR a winning solution, and I suspect that 99% of RESPONSIBLE gun owners are as well. (people who think gun owners don't care if people are murdered, or that they want it to happen are their own special brand of idiot) Unfortunately, I just don't see anything working that has been offered up as a viable solution, particularly when you take into account all the guns that are already on the street, unregistered. Of course, we have to start sometime, and it will obviously take YEARS for the full benefits to be realized, probably won't see it in our lifetimes. But yes, it IS too easy for criminals or insane people to get a gun and wield death with it.

Start what? Nobody on here is anti gun.

[Teddy B 17,252]

kinda like making any rational defense of owning guns makes one a "gun nut" ..............

Not so, at least not with me. I consider a gun nut to be someone that has to have a gun with them at all times or someone that thinks a gun is the end all be all of everything life has to throw at them. We live in a civilized society, not the wild west.

Here is something from the Guardian:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2015/dec/04/afraid-of-guns-buy-more-guns-the-circle-of-life-in-america

Is this what you want?

Cartoons? No not especially.

[smilesammich 10,727]

Here is something from the Guardian:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2015/dec/04/afraid-of-guns-buy-more-guns-the-circle-of-life-in-america

Is this what you want?

isn't that what's already happening?

Ok, so let's talk about what further gun control measures should be put into place.

Waiting times.

How long does one currently have to wait to buy a handgun? What's the federal law on that? What is the state law? (I'll help you here. There should be a federal mandate in place, and the waiting time could be extended to a month to allow for more thorough background checks. For the very same reason that you cannot fully vet a refugee in a few days; it takes TIME to conduct a thorough background check. And lots of money. My last clearance cost over $10,000 and wasn't complete for about 4 months).

How easy is it to buy a machine gun? (I mean, this has to be the ULTIMATE mass murder weapon, right?) Can any normal person buy one? If so, what date is critical to owning it? What is the process for purchasing one? (If you can find a way to make this MORE restrictive or controlled, you will win the internets for a week!)

And before you go too far in trying to further controls these WMD, consider that a fully auto machine gun goes for between $12,000 for an Uzi up to $15-25K for an AR-15 style. Kind of eliminates your average crackhead from the purchasing pool. I'd think.

So what methods do you think we can put into place to better control the flow of guns? And bear in mind, that anything we do today only controls the sale of new guns from now on. It does nothing for the millions of guns that are already out there. But wait, there's MORE!!

If I purchase a gun tomorrow, with all the controls anyone wishes to put into place, and I wait my 30/60/90 days for the Feds to decide I deserve to own a gun, because I AM a responsible person, and there is a 0.0000126% chance I will ever use said gun on someone to do them harm.... then you come along, break into my house, steal my gun (because you AREN'T able to buy one legally), and go kill your ex because he cheated on you. Or a bunch of school kids because you had your lunch money stolen when you were in school. Or a bunch of people at a Christmas party because you hate parties, or Xmas, or America. Whatever. Just how effective was all that gun control? Not only were you easily able to bypass all those controls, you were also able to forego the (now higher due to more stringent BG checks) cost of purchasing the gun. Win/win for you!!

I am ALL FOR a winning solution, and I suspect that 99% of RESPONSIBLE gun owners are as well. (people who think gun owners don't care if people are murdered, or that they want it to happen are their own special brand of idiot) Unfortunately, I just don't see anything working that has been offered up as a viable solution, particularly when you take into account all the guns that are already on the street, unregistered. Of course, we have to start sometime, and it will obviously take YEARS for the full benefits to be realized, probably won't see it in our lifetimes. But yes, it IS too easy for criminals or insane people to get a gun and wield death with it.

seriously don't think america has a problem with crackhead uzi uprisings. anyway no one needs to own an uzi or machine gun or ar15, it's that people want to own these types of guns. but whatever, the american public needs to have access to guns that can quickly spray a ton of shots in seconds. ITS A NECESSITY. right?

and while there is not a single proposal that will completely obliterate the possibility of someone who wants to kill getting a hold of a gun, that's sort of the risk you take when you own a gun. i don't know much about guns, don't own any, never shot one. but i do know that if someone is going to shoot me with a gun - it won't be my own. people that own a gun are more likely to be harmed by it. that's a pretty basic fact.

i'm not going to respond to all your questions, i honestly don't feel like you're being genuine. more like you're making excuses as to why nothing can be done (not in our lifetime, all the guns already here, yadayada).

Or buy it from your local Mexican crack dealer?

lol. trump has embedded himself in your brain. what an asinine thing to say.

[Boiler 46,277]

seriously don't think america has a problem with crackhead uzi uprisings. anyway no one needs to own an uzi or machine gun or ar15, it's that people want to own these types of guns. but whatever, the american public needs to have access to guns that can quickly spray a ton of shots in seconds. ITS A NECESSITY. right?

As most people I know have a gun and nobody I know has such a gun and as such guns are not used in such incidents you have just proven my point.

[smilesammich 10,727]

As most people I know have a gun and nobody I know has such a gun and as such guns are not used in such incidents you have just proven my point.

weak point, considering i didn't bring up those types of guns.

[Boiler 46,277]

weak point, considering i didn't bring up those types of guns.

Err

I quoted you!

So as usual we come back to we are not anti gun, we do not want to take your guns, BUT

(SECRET we really do)

[Teddy B 17,252]

Here's my list of what I think would be feasible and still allow every law abiding citizen to maintain their gun ownership.

I think that first and foremost we need a nationwide system of gun laws, not state to state.

Mandatory waiting periods, criminal and mental health background checks.

I would like to see smart guns become mandatory.

Put a limit on how many guns a single person or a household can own unless someone is a dealer or collector with special licensing.

Ideally (but I know it will never happen) I would like to see some sort of restrictions or bans put on semi-autos.

Edited December 4, 2015 by Teddy B

[ready4ONE 5,400]

Nothing like tossing a baby shower for someone you think is a terrorist, lets blame the victims.

The baby shower was likely not held by the Muslims are all terrorists and anyone who fails to poop and shower without a gun is just asking for it types.

The poison rhetoric that all Muslims are suspect and in cahoots with the relative few who clearly believe in Radical Jihad just might have been a factor. I don't know obviously what the exact motives of the deceased were but the constant drum beat of certain elements tainting all Muslims seems to be at least a possibility in why this Muslim American may have been radicalized.

[smilesammich 10,727]

Err

I quoted you!

So as usual we come back to we are not anti gun, we do not want to take your guns, BUT

(SECRET we really do)

i'm not anti gun, i don't want to secretly take away the right for people to own guns. do i think there is an extremely high level of responsibility on the part of gun owners? YES. i don't think i could consider a gun owner who chooses to own something like an uzi as responsible.

again, i support the right to bear arms. i believe people have the right to protect themselves - reasonably. it's well past time to make amendments and get with the reality of the times. anyone who thinks 'our forefathers' would be sitting back championing the nra and all of their dirty money lobbying is delusional.

[Boiler 46,277]

Here's my list of what I think would be feasible and still allow every law abiding citizen to maintain their gun ownership.

I think that first and foremost we need a nationwide system of gun laws, not state to state.

I think that is a constitutional issue but I live in a fairly highly regulated state, so I assume that would mean that the rules would be less restrictive.

Mandatory waiting periods, criminal and mental health background checks.

Well I have to go through Criminal now so that leaves Mental. I just do not understand how that would work. Could you explain?

I would like to see smart guns become mandatory.

Not something I would be interested in, would see a major increase in second hand values.

Put a limit on how many guns a single person or a household can own unless someone is a dealer or collector with special licensing.

Why? You can outside of the films only fire one at a time.

Ideally (but I know it will never happen) I would like to see some sort of restrictions or bans put on semi-autos.

That contradicts your opening sentence. I am pretty quick with a bolt action and Revolvers are still OK, so what are you looking to achieve?

[Boiler 46,277]

i'm not anti gun, i don't want to secretly take away the right for people to own guns. do i think there is an extremely high level of responsibility on the part of gun owners? YES. i don't think i could consider a gun owner who chooses to own something like an uzi as responsible.

You could buy a nice car for the same money and there are hardly any out there. Plus all the federal restrictions in buying one.

Perhaps you need to educate yourself on the subject?