Can husband re-enter U.S. on B visa after overstay?

[christine55 5]

Please don't refer to my husband and I as "cheats" we aren't criminals. We were given advice by an attorney, we took it and got married (before his visa expired) with every intention of adjusting status, and we couldn't afford to do it so we left. If I didn't have family and friends over there, we'd never go back. Trust me. Like I said, not everyone wants to live in the U.S.

[HFM181818 750]

advice from attorneys does not bestow some magical qualities to anyone foolish enough to take it.

As for my choice of terms of 'endearment' for those who fail to abide by the terms of a visa or visa-like privilege, well, a simple question: did your husband abide by the terms of the VWP?

[HFM181818 750]

If you read carefully, I used a term referring to some people I interviewed in the past.

[TBoneTX 45,580]

Two noncontributory posts (by the same poster) have been removed. Any further such will risk thread-bans or worse.

VJ Moderation

[newacct 688]

advice from attorneys does not bestow some magical qualities to anyone foolish enough to take it.

The attorney's advice was correct. It was not "foolish" to take it, as long as they follow it. However, they did not follow the attorney's advice (they left when the advice was to stay), whether for lack of money or other reasons. Yes, they are at fault, but not because of the attorney's advice.

[MacUK 983]

HFM181818, forgive me but I can't help thinking that you feel a great deal of bitterness when it comes to misuse of tourist visas and VWP.

I can understand that feeling when you've seen people very convincingly promise you of all those reasons to go home for those reasons to suddenly disappear shortly after.

I just wonder if this is a feeling common to COs which could cause them to deny many applicants that truly do not have any intention of staying in the States.

We have spoken via PM of my own attempts to get a B-2 after I stupidly lost my VWP privileges and you've given me good advice on the difficulties I face in regaining the trust I squandered.

I simply can not think of any way at all of absolutely proving without doubt what my intentions are. How can anyone prove what is happening in their head?

Personally, I have no desire to live in the US whatsoever. I'm perfectly happy living in what I think is the greatest country on Earth but that is something that cannot be shown on any bit of paper, or any job contract or house ownership.

So, would it be safe to say that if so many Consular Officers are predisposed to not trust applicants because they've been lied to in the past then for many people there's simply no point in bothering to apply as they are never likely to be approved?

[Boiler 45,730]

I am sure there is profiling based on your application and at least an unofficial scoring system.

But you can not prove a negative.

[christine55 5]

I am sure there is profiling based on your application and at least an unofficial scoring system.

But you can not prove a negative.

Speaking of profiling, this has actually crossed my mind several times. My husband is covered in tattoos and I wonder if that will have any effect on whether or not he gets approved. He's very well articulated and polite, but if he meets with a CO who believes he is just trying to worm his way back to the U.S. for an indefinite stay, I wonder if it will just sort of seal the deal for him. I would hope whoever meets with him will take into consideration the ties he has to Norway and so forth and not his appearance, but I guess you never know.

I should probably ask to have this thread closed now, but I was hoping to keep it open that way I could update you all with the decision.

[HFM181818 750]

First, immigration law already presumes that a B2 (amongst others) applicant is going to the US to remain permanently. Thus, the interview does not begin in a neutral position, so to speak.

Second, the virtual total lack of internal controls over visitors to the US is well known to COs with more than about a month of experience. Thus, the COs are in reality, the first line of defense of our borders.

Third, a fairly large percentage of the visa seeking public know (from word of mouth or their own experience) that bringing fake papers or lying rarely brings about any serious consequences.

Fourth - experience and knowledge drawn from COs who have 'gone before' draw a picture of striking similarity (in most developing countries)...that young, single, barely employed applicants represent the highest risk of overstays, illegal workers and USC spouse seekers on the planet....which strongly suggests (again, from knowledge easily accessible to a CO willing to pursue it) that this demographic group will say or do just about anything in order to gain admission to the US.

Fifth - a CO who caves to sympathy will be granting visas to a large proportion of people who have no intention of abiding by the terms of that visa - again, one can look up approvals, AOS info and other data bases to satisfy for themselves that there is an almost unlimited supply of applicants who will try to game the system.

Now, as an aside, the vast majority of our population has no idea of what kind of baloney is being fed our COs worldwide; a larger quantity of which is being dispensed in those same developing countries, but not exclusively from them.

I have seen applicants who have offered false death certificates of some relative, attempted to pass off other people's children as their own or who have purposely injured their children (breaking limbs or burning them) in order to generate sympathy from a CO and hopefully get a free pass to the US....

When a conscientious CO spends some time to review past decisions and other useful material upon arrival at a new assignment, it can prevent that person from making similar mistakes.

No doubt, some of you might respond, 'gee, so what....who cares who comes here and stays, etc...?'...except for a few things....first, those who work without permission are taking jobs from Americans and/or depressing wages in many blue collar (and some white collar) jobs...they are not here just cleaning toilets or picking fruit...those who arrive with family place their kids in public school, at the expense of the American taxpayer! Many receive free medical benefits, usually following a car wreck they likely caused! Who pays? Yep, you and I. Our school classrooms are overflowing in many states....not due to Americans having more kids, but by the influx of illegal children from who knows where...

The H1B program is rife with fraud, mostly enriching immigration attorneys and helping companies save money by 'in-sourcing' jobs to unqualified employees who are paid about 1/3 of the going rate of an American doing the same job.

The L1B program has similar problems, which some Congressmen and senators are attempting to rectify, albeit slowly.

All of this affects every one of us, sooner or later.

Adjudicating B2 applications requires a blend of psychological skills, analytical skills, knowledge of immigration law and thinking quickly on one's feet. One must (should) dial out input from other sources regarding the bona fides of any applicant, otherwise, one would NOT be doing that job properly ( COs are the only folks trained and commissioned to take on that task)...

Sorting out the good from the bad is no mean feat - and for all of you who think you could do better, well, you'll quickly discover that even getting into the foreign service is nowhere near as easy as some may believe.

Could a CO become more than skeptical? Sure. But a good one tries to shake that off....but each new case can bring it back quickly.

After gaining some experience (in a variety of things consular at an embassy), it becomes easier to identify the bona fide from the mala fide with a high degree of accuracy.

But what can cause a CO to take a new look at things is when they find out that someone violated the trust given to them....and then seeing that person again at your window, with their hand out for a new chance, with stories and other things to try and generate sympathy....sympathy and adjudications of tourist (and some other types) visas do not mix. Empathy, perhaps.

COs are besieged on a daily basis by unhappy relatives or friends of those whose applications were denied; congressional inquires in some posts can be so numerous that fax machines go into melt down...phone calls, people pounding on windows, whining to whoever might listen....a good CO can tune all of this out with ease, making that person appear to be 'heartless' or 'hard nosed' or you pick a term....the pressures upon COs can be great in some countries...to borrow a baseball analogy, it's like having bean balls thrown at you during your entire at-bat, and getting up and back into the batter's box, ready to hit a home run each and every time.

When a citizen of a country that participates in the VWP decides to abuse that privilege, and when caught, tries all sorts of creative ways to regain their ability to travel to the US, well, from my own former perspective, I had little (actually, none) sympathy and even less willingness to listen to their rationalizations as to why they thought the laws did not apply to them (and sometimes they would be presenting a letter from some immigration attorney telling me the same fairy tales!)....

Gaining the trust of a CO is no mean feat - violating it is considered the worst....especially when they try to regain it with unbelievable stories or, in some cases, via outright fraud or subterfuge.

If our largely do-nothing Congress actually had the courage to legislate, then enforce (or provide funding to enforce) some changes in the current immigration laws that would close loopholes and end waivers, then it is possible that more folks might get the chance to visit the US...but until that day arrives (not likely before the next appearance of Haley's Comet!), COs are the ones sorting out the wheat from the chaff.

[Torete 121]

according to this 'logic', there must be good reasons to rob banks, steal cars, etc....rationalization is the term you are looking for....when people decide to disobey rules and regulations, they often try to find something that was more important than being a responsible adult....and if everyone did that whenever they felt like it, what would our cultures, economies, etc, look like in very short order?

And when someone consciously decides to ignore the laws, but then wants their privileges restored, on what basis should that happen? If your child goes to a party, drinks, then wrecks the car, would you be rushing out to buy him or her a new one? When your child lies to you, how quickly do you start believing them again?

Your 'soft line' of rewarding lawbreakers no matter what appears to reflect how little you think of our laws....

Border controls/visas, etc, are in place to protect the American culture and economy....visas, like tourist visas, are an object of trust....(like the VWP)...I've interviewed countless thousands of visa cheats who, after being shown the door in various ways, thought they could just show up the next day, waving some weepily worded letter of apology (often written by their American SO), promising never to violate the terms of a visa again (statistics do not support this claim) and then expect that their 'good reasons' will be given a front row seat during the adjudication process and a new visa given to someone who has yet to demonstrate that they merit one....such promises, being self serving and totally non-enforceable, had no positive impact on my decision making ....I watched colleagues fall prey to such nonsense and pay the price....

I just don't have a soft spot in my make up that turns a blind eye to those who have thumbed their noses at our laws...

Curious, what price did they pay? What form or fashion?

[HFM181818 750]

getting tenured as a new officer is paramount to one's future career....poor decision making in the visa world can and did cause tenure to be delayed (along with promotions) or, in some cases, not given at all, which would then force the new officer out of the service after 5 years....

if already tenured, a promotion could be missed, a choice assignment given to someone else, etc. A CO might be taken off the line and relegated to other make-work.

Opportunities for more serious projects given to others....the point is, poor decision making leads to other issues, so a CO who is interested in their own growth/advancement, should take their consular assignment seriously and not fall prey to sob stories, etc.....when visa holders overstay or rush to an AOS, they leave a track record.

No one I've ever known as a CO ever had problems by saying 'no.'.....it's an unwise 'yes' that can cause problems.

[TBoneTX 45,580]

Three more noncontributory posts have been removed.

---

[Moderator hat off]

We've received a priceless education here:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/577040-can-husband-re-enter-us-on-b-visa-after-overstay/?p=7914749

[Teddy B 17,252]

First, immigration law already presumes that a B2 (amongst others) applicant is going to the US to remain permanently. Thus, the interview does not begin in a neutral position, so to speak.

Second, the virtual total lack of internal controls over visitors to the US is well known to COs with more than about a month of experience. Thus, the COs are in reality, the first line of defense of our borders.

Third, a fairly large percentage of the visa seeking public know (from word of mouth or their own experience) that bringing fake papers or lying rarely brings about any serious consequences.

Fourth - experience and knowledge drawn from COs who have 'gone before' draw a picture of striking similarity (in most developing countries)...that young, single, barely employed applicants represent the highest risk of overstays, illegal workers and USC spouse seekers on the planet....which strongly suggests (again, from knowledge easily accessible to a CO willing to pursue it) that this demographic group will say or do just about anything in order to gain admission to the US.

Fifth - a CO who caves to sympathy will be granting visas to a large proportion of people who have no intention of abiding by the terms of that visa - again, one can look up approvals, AOS info and other data bases to satisfy for themselves that there is an almost unlimited supply of applicants who will try to game the system.

Now, as an aside, the vast majority of our population has no idea of what kind of baloney is being fed our COs worldwide; a larger quantity of which is being dispensed in those same developing countries, but not exclusively from them.

I have seen applicants who have offered false death certificates of some relative, attempted to pass off other people's children as their own or who have purposely injured their children (breaking limbs or burning them) in order to generate sympathy from a CO and hopefully get a free pass to the US....

When a conscientious CO spends some time to review past decisions and other useful material upon arrival at a new assignment, it can prevent that person from making similar mistakes.

No doubt, some of you might respond, 'gee, so what....who cares who comes here and stays, etc...?'...except for a few things....first, those who work without permission are taking jobs from Americans and/or depressing wages in many blue collar (and some white collar) jobs...they are not here just cleaning toilets or picking fruit...those who arrive with family place their kids in public school, at the expense of the American taxpayer! Many receive free medical benefits, usually following a car wreck they likely caused! Who pays? Yep, you and I. Our school classrooms are overflowing in many states....not due to Americans having more kids, but by the influx of illegal children from who knows where...

The H1B program is rife with fraud, mostly enriching immigration attorneys and helping companies save money by 'in-sourcing' jobs to unqualified employees who are paid about 1/3 of the going rate of an American doing the same job.

The L1B program has similar problems, which some Congressmen and senators are attempting to rectify, albeit slowly.

All of this affects every one of us, sooner or later.

Adjudicating B2 applications requires a blend of psychological skills, analytical skills, knowledge of immigration law and thinking quickly on one's feet. One must (should) dial out input from other sources regarding the bona fides of any applicant, otherwise, one would NOT be doing that job properly ( COs are the only folks trained and commissioned to take on that task)...

Sorting out the good from the bad is no mean feat - and for all of you who think you could do better, well, you'll quickly discover that even getting into the foreign service is nowhere near as easy as some may believe.

Could a CO become more than skeptical? Sure. But a good one tries to shake that off....but each new case can bring it back quickly.

After gaining some experience (in a variety of things consular at an embassy), it becomes easier to identify the bona fide from the mala fide with a high degree of accuracy.

But what can cause a CO to take a new look at things is when they find out that someone violated the trust given to them....and then seeing that person again at your window, with their hand out for a new chance, with stories and other things to try and generate sympathy....sympathy and adjudications of tourist (and some other types) visas do not mix. Empathy, perhaps.

COs are besieged on a daily basis by unhappy relatives or friends of those whose applications were denied; congressional inquires in some posts can be so numerous that fax machines go into melt down...phone calls, people pounding on windows, whining to whoever might listen....a good CO can tune all of this out with ease, making that person appear to be 'heartless' or 'hard nosed' or you pick a term....the pressures upon COs can be great in some countries...to borrow a baseball analogy, it's like having bean balls thrown at you during your entire at-bat, and getting up and back into the batter's box, ready to hit a home run each and every time.

When a citizen of a country that participates in the VWP decides to abuse that privilege, and when caught, tries all sorts of creative ways to regain their ability to travel to the US, well, from my own former perspective, I had little (actually, none) sympathy and even less willingness to listen to their rationalizations as to why they thought the laws did not apply to them (and sometimes they would be presenting a letter from some immigration attorney telling me the same fairy tales!)....

Gaining the trust of a CO is no mean feat - violating it is considered the worst....especially when they try to regain it with unbelievable stories or, in some cases, via outright fraud or subterfuge.

If our largely do-nothing Congress actually had the courage to legislate, then enforce (or provide funding to enforce) some changes in the current immigration laws that would close loopholes and end waivers, then it is possible that more folks might get the chance to visit the US...but until that day arrives (not likely before the next appearance of Haley's Comet!), COs are the ones sorting out the wheat from the chaff.

That's all well and fine, except it does not apply to the op's situation. The op isn't making excuses or looking for sympathy. She has owned up to their mistake and is simply asking how and when her husband may be able to apply for and receive a tourist visa. The constant brow beating of the op by you in this thread is uncalled for and against the board TOS. It should be dealt with by moderators.

[Ontarkie 14,304]

~~This thread is now locked to further discussion. The OP has been given plenty of good advice and can start a new thread to update the board later.~~