Looking for advice on RFE

[SunflowerSweet 1,321]

Yeesh. The number of people who think that it's okay to ignore a U.S. law because they have a different opinion about it is a little concerning.

The truth is, like others have mentioned, if you payed to use the service then it is considered a marriage broker service.

I really don't suggest lying to the government in the very first step of your visa journey by saying no to that.

Also be aware that admitting to meeting on a MB site does not by any means kill your chances of getting approved. People meet on OK Cupid and eHarmony and end up filing for K-1s all the time!

Honesty is the best policy. If you are worried about extra scrutiny then maybe ask yourself why..

Edited November 25, 2015 by MorganandMichael

[Yuri S 4]

Hi everyone,

Yesterday I received a RFE with this wording: "Submit information regarding the circumstances under which you and beneficiary met to establish the relationship. (How were you and beneficiary first introduced?)" It then goes on to talk about IMBs indicating I need the additional documentation if one was used. I've seen the many posts related to this in the IMBRA sub-forum so I don't really need more information there.

My actual problem is that I don't really have any direct evidence of how we were introduced. We used the website www.asiandating.com and quickly moved to Skype/WhatsApp for communication. We did have initial e-mails on the site, but the mailbox on the site automatically deletes all e-mails older than 2 months. Those e-mails were long gone before I even considered going down the K-1 Visa road.

I have some evidence that kind of shows we used the site, but I'm not sure how great it is. I have some Skype conversation history that shows us talking about it (with abbreviations) early on when we asked questions like, "Are you talking to anyone else on AD?" I can also show small things like how long ago she added me as a favorite on the site via the 'who favorited me' page.

I'm hoping to get some advice on what to send back in the RFE. Should I just write up a statement explaining that we met on asiandating.com and sign it, or should I also include any of the other items I mentioned above? I already have the terms of service and a response from the site explaining why they aren't an IMB, so I believe that part is taken care of.

Thanks for any help!

Hello Kartea,

My husband and I also met online. We went through the K1 process and are now living together in the USA with a green card. What you can do is submit very detailed information on how you met to establish the relationship. I have attached an example of the level of detail that got us through this process. We proved receipts, conversations, plane tickets, picture of everytime we met.

[baron555 934]

Yeesh. The number of people who think that it's okay to ignore a U.S. law because they have a different opinion about it is a little concerning.

The truth is, like others have mentioned, if you payed to use the service then it is considered a marriage broker service.

I really don't suggest lying to the government in the very first step of your visa journey by saying no to that.

Also be aware that admitting to meeting on a MB site does not by any means kill your chances of getting approved. People meet on OK Cupid and eHarmony and end up filing for K-1s all the time!

Honesty is the best policy. If you are worried about extra scrutiny then maybe ask yourself why..

I don't think that they are intentionally lying but that they are just not interpreting the definition correctly.

As you can see from another poster, they are hung up on the traditional thought of what an IMB would be and can't see that USCIS is defining IMB with a broader brush which includes online dating and social sites.

If you paid any kind of money to access the other person's information, then bingo it's an IMB, as defined by USCIS.

This is not a big deal.

To the OP, send them all the information that the 129f form requests if you had marked that box Yes for having met on an IMB. This is really no big deal.

[SunflowerSweet 1,321]

I don't think that they are intentionally lying but that they are just not interpreting the definition correctly.

As you can see from another poster, they are hung up on the traditional thought of what an IMB would be and can't see that USCIS is defining IMB with a broader brush which includes online dating and social sites.

If you paid any kind of money to access the other person's information, then bingo it's an IMB, as defined by USCIS.

This is not a big deal.

To the OP, send them all the information that the 129f form requests if you had marked that box Yes for having met on an IMB. This is really no big deal.

Exactly...?

[tyler007 26]

Big question! Ultimately uscis is approving petitions if you used Asaindating.com so regardless if they are considered an imb or not they are issuing NOA 2. Why the heck are they giving RFE's for this? In the end they aporove it if you used Asiandating.com. It is a big enough website that all the case workers should no this and stop issuing the RFE's.

[baron555 934]

Big question! Ultimately uscis is approving petitions if you used Asaindating.com so regardless if they are considered an imb or not they are issuing NOA 2. Why the heck are they giving RFE's for this? In the end they aporove it if you used Asiandating.com. It is a big enough website that all the case workers should no this and stop issuing the RFE's.

As stated, they used to not issue RFEs but lately they have been.

Thoroughly read through the following two documents. USCIS is just protecting the beneficiaries, as required under the IMBRA regulations.

Yes there will be cases that don't pull RFEs and some that do; each of these cases are not defining what the USCIS Adjucators have been instructed to do or how to use their judgement.

http://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/USCIS/Humanitarian/Battered%20Spouse,%20Children%20%26%20Parents/IMBRA%20Pamphlet%20Final%2001-07-2011%20for%20Web%20Posting.pdf

http://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/USCIS/Laws/Memoranda/Static_Files_Memoranda/Archives%201998-2008/2006/imbra072106.pdf

And to add, I answered Yes and provided the address and other info requested on the form. My wife was specifically asked about where we had first met, etc and she acknowledged the same. I don't remember if she was asked if the site had provided her with any background check info on me but she was given the pamphlet referenced in the first link as part of her Packet 3.

Edited November 25, 2015 by baron555

[Yuri S 4]

Just tell them you met on asiandating.com, and send them the terms of service and the email stating they are not an IMB.

Back in my day, we didn't have to send those things to the USCIS, but lately they want them. I wonder when they will finally figure out that the site is not an IMB.

I agree. This is what we did. We explained that we met online and then went into crazy detail about meeting in person. This relates to i129f Proof of meeting Part 2 Question 34.a:

Here are the details we provided:

[Tahoma 2,292]

According to the USCIS, the difference between IMB's and sites like asiandating and filipinacupid is that IMB's release personal contact information and background information on their clients. The clients sign waivers with the IMB's allowing the release. This has been explained by the USCIS by way of their RFE's. Some of these enlightening RFE's have been posted right here on VJ.

[Tahoma 2,292]

As stated, they used to not issue RFEs but lately they have been.

Thoroughly read through the following two documents. USCIS is just protecting the beneficiaries, as required under the IMBRA regulations.

Yes there will be cases that don't pull RFEs and some that do; each of these cases are not defining what the USCIS Adjucators have been instructed to do or how to use their judgement.

http://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/USCIS/Humanitarian/Battered%20Spouse,%20Children%20%26%20Parents/IMBRA%20Pamphlet%20Final%2001-07-2011%20for%20Web%20Posting.pdf

http://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/USCIS/Laws/Memoranda/Static_Files_Memoranda/Archives%201998-2008/2006/imbra072106.pdf

And to add, I answered Yes and provided the address and other info requested on the form. My wife was specifically asked about where we had first met, etc and she acknowledged the same. I don't remember if she was asked if the site had provided her with any background check info on me but she was given the pamphlet referenced in the first link as part of her Packet 3.

The following quote is from the link you posted. It illustrates why sites like asiandating are not IMB's:

"How does the U.S. government regulate International Marriage Brokers?

If an agency qualifies as an international marriage broker, it is required to give you background information on the U.S. client who wants to contact you, including information contained in Federal and State sex offender public registries, and get your written permission before giving the U.S. client your contact information. The agency is required to give you a copy of this pamphlet. It is prohibited from doing business with you if you are under 18 years of age."

[Tahoma 2,292]

Here is an example of an RFE which was posted by a fellow VJer:

"International Marriage Broker(IMB)

The evidence submitted indicates that you may have [met] the beneficiary through the services of an international marriage broker (IMB). You stated you met the beneficiary through a dating website, although the answer to question 35 on the fiancee petition indicates that you did not meet the beneficiary through the services of an international marriage broker, you did not specify that the website is not an international marriage broker as defined by regulations. An International Marriage Broker is considered a business that charges fees for dating, matrimonial, matchmaking services or social referrals between United state citizens and foreign nationals. As such you must submit a copy of the signed written consent form that the International Marriage Broker obtained from the beneficiary authorizing the release of his personal contact information to you, or documentation to establish that the website is not an international marriage broker."

Edited November 25, 2015 by Tahoma

[BS1982 13]

Too many people are overthinking this. I met my wife on eharmony and we sailed through the K1 process. We checked NOT an IMB. EHarmomy, asiadating.com, match.com and other online dating sites are not IMBs. We had screen shots of our initial meeting on EH, but for the OP I would simply explain how you met, explain why you don't have documentation and provide info showing that it is an online dating site. Simple as that.

[tyler007 26]

Again if uscis knows these specific sites are not imb then why the heck do they keep sending out RFE's? Very frustrating. They need to reword or clarify on i-129f exactly what they want because one thing is for sure it is not clear as is evident by the diversity of opinion and uncertainty on this board.

[jal8485 4]

I asked asiandating if they are an imb in an email and they said they are not. I included that reply along with specifics of how we met in my rfe and uscis accepted it and approved me 2 weeks later

[Kartea 1]

Thanks for all the replies everyone.

My original question was not related to IMBs, but since there has been a lot of discussion on that topic I can share a bit more text from the RFE I received.

--

The term 'international marriage broker' does not include:

a. Traditional matchmaking organizations of a cultural or religious nature that operate on a non-profit basis and in compliance with the laws of the countries in which they operate, including the laws of the United States; or

b. Entities that provide dating services if their principal business is not to provide international dating services between United States citizens or United States residents and foreign nationals, and that charges comparable rates and offers comparable services to all individuals served regardless of their gender or country of citizenship.

--

I think Asian Dating falls into section 'b' above. The response I got from Asian Dating about their status also references this. They explain that they have more non-USA men than USA men using the site. They also charge the same price regardless of gender. I'm far from an expert but I feel comfortable sending information explaining they are not an IMB. There's also the fact that they require a signed written consent form from the IMB (if one was used) and Asian Dating never had anything like that for me or my beneficiary.

Back to my original question though, it seems a lot of advice is suggesting I simply say we met on the site since I don't have anything but indirect evidence to support it. For those who already did something similar for an RFE, how did you present that? Did you just say 'we met on asiandating.com' and sign the page? I'm a bit worried that's kind of 'light'. Is there any downside to including the indirect evidence?

Thanks again!

[tyler007 26]

Hi Kartea, Someone mentioned providing a bill or proof of payment to the website . When i get home i will try to dig mine up if i happen to get an RFE. I already obtained the email from asiandating providing their terms of service . In addition to this I copied and pasted to word document every conversation we had on that site. All of 2 pages. Because after initial contact we went straight to communicating on a free texting application .Hopefully Others can provide more insight .

Edited November 26, 2015 by tyler747