Isis and Islam

[Comment 8]

I have heard a lot lately after the attacks on Paris about how Muslims support terrorist and how happy they were about the people that got killed. Also, how we should close the border for Syrian refugees. So, I decided to tell you the difference between Muslim and terrorist. You are welcome to give me your opinion. However, to give me a fair opinion you have to have good knowledge and a great amount of information. If your information came from the media, then sorry you do not know the truth. You only know what the media wants you to know.
Let me give you a piece of background about me. I grew up in Egypt, in a big city on a long street that starts with Muslim house then a Christian house then a Muslim house and then a Christian and so on. Just a single Jewish family lived on that street. So, I grew up calling Uncle" Magdy" and Uncle "Zaky" and so many were called uncle. Uncle Magdy was Christian, Uncle Zaky was Jewish and I was Muslim. We shared happiness and sadness together. We went to the church for weddings, holidays or funerals. They come with us to the Mosque for weddings or funerals. We shared everything. When I came to the United States, due to long distance I have not been to a mosque but two or three times. But more than that I went to the church with a friend who was the organist. I received others into my home. I am Muslim with Christian wife. We have been married for 7 years and I have not forced her to change anything. On the dresser in the bedroom there is a Bible and next to it is a Quran. So from true experience when I tell you ISIS is not Muslim it is a fair judgement.
If you want it by logic, look where there war is now. Syria, Iraq, Libya, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, and Egypt. These are all Arabic and Muslim countries where ISIS killed over 100,000 Muslims and continue to do so. If they were Muslim as people say they would not be burning mosques in greater number than churches. Don't come and say they are Muslim for a fact or represent Islam for a fact.
It is unfair to judge Islam and Muslim by what ISIS is doing. As it is unfair to judge Christianity and Christians for all the women that were burned at the stake. It is also unfair to judge all the Germans for what Hitler did. Or Italians for what Mussolini did and so on.
ISIS is there to make people think bad about Islam and Muslim; to make people hate Islam and Muslims. ISIS is there to give reason for other countries to send their army there. Is it to keep peace or for oil or other resources or to make new allies or to keep closer eye on an enemy, who knows!
Now to the point where some Muslim countries punish crimes by death. It is their law and the criminals were full aware of the consequences of their actions. I do not agree with a lot of it but I agree to obeying the law. If you are full aware of the law and you go against it, you are the one that brings the punishment you receive. I live in the United States and have to live by the US laws. I am in the US and I live as American. I speak english in my home and on the streets. I comply with the laws and support the constitution. If there are some laws that I do not like, I still obey it. It is obey or get out. Even now days, people are going bananas, just like the old days everyone was afraid their friends, neighbors, favorite actors, politians were communist. So history repeats itself but these days it is not communist but Muslims they are afraid of.
Now to Al-Qaeda. Are they Muslims? Sadly, yes, Radical ones. Are they criminal? Absolutely! Do they represent Islam? Absolutely not!! If it was army to army war, I understand and there is nothing bad in this. But murder, bombing, killing innocents has nothing to do with Islam. It has everything to do with terrorism. I swear to God if one day either of these groups came to the United States and we were allowed to carry weapons and fight them, I would be the first to bear arms and kill every single one I can as it is what they deserve. I would do this to protect my family, my friends and my religion. If any information came to me by any means I would report it immediately to the government without second thoughts. As you see, everything here is from experience not from the media. So, if you want to come to judge me or my religion, please do it from experience not from media or biased and illogical history books.
P.S. Most of the terrorist in the Paris attacks were French or Beligum. So why are we closing our doors to the Syrian refugees? I believe in giving them a chance and keeping a close eye on them. That is better than just ignoring helping another human being. Please let's not forget we are a country of immigrants except for the American Indian. This was peaceful opinion with due respect to all religion and nationality. If you are wanting to spread hatred and ill will, I am going to ignore your comments. Once again I am not accusing anyone of anything I am stating facts.
Thank you and good luck to all.

[GandD 5,966]

Welcome to the forum and thanks for sharing.

Please go easy on him folks.

[Comment 8]

Welcome to the forum and thanks for sharing.

Please go easy on him folks.

thanks to you

hmmm Asking them to go easy on me now that was funny , I didn't know I was going to war. should I bring my bullet proof vest or something

Again thank you and I can point someone to what I think is the right direction but I can't make the blind see the light.

[OriZ 3,157]

I am Muslim with Christian wife. We have been married for 7 years and I have not forced her to change anything. On the dresser in the bedroom there is a Bible and next to it is a Quran. So from true experience when I tell you ISIS is not Muslim it is a fair judgement.

If you want it by logic, look where there war is now. Syria, Iraq, Libya, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, and Egypt. These are all Arabic and Muslim countries where ISIS killed over 100,000 Muslims and continue to do so. If they were Muslim as people say they would not be burning mosques in greater number than churches. Don't come and say they are Muslim for a fact or represent Islam for a fact.

It is unfair to judge Islam and Muslim by what ISIS is doing. As it is unfair to judge Christianity and Christians for all the women that were burned at the stake. It is also unfair to judge all the Germans for what Hitler did. Or Italians for what Mussolini did and so on.

Now to the point where some Muslim countries punish crimes by death. It is their law and the criminals were full aware of the consequences of their actions. I do not agree with a lot of it but I agree to obeying the law. If you are full aware of the law and you go against it, you are the one that brings the punishment you receive. I live in the United States and have to live by the US laws. I am in the US and I live as American. I speak english in my home and on the streets. I comply with the laws and support the constitution. If there are some laws that I do not like, I still obey it. It is obey or get out. Even now days, people are going bananas, just like the old days everyone was afraid their friends, neighbors, favorite actors, politians were communist. So history repeats itself but these days it is not communist but Muslims they are afraid of.

You are obviously not a practicing(or a "partial" very selective practicing) Muslim. That is ok I'm the same way as a Jew. You do realize that if you were practicing according to the Quran that's on your dresser your wife would have had to convert.

Would you say that it is fair at least to say that Isis, as well as other Muslims that commit those crimes at least do it thinking that they are doing it for and in the name of Islam? Whether they are or aren't, that is THEIR perspective on it. Although the funny thing is - I just read today that the "Fugitive Paris jihadist loved gay bars, drugs and PlayStation"

http://nypost.com/2015/11/22/missing-paris-attacker-loved-gay-bars-and-playstation/

All very Islamic things as we all know lol. A hint of hypocricy in alot of them. So alot of them are not as Muslim as they may think they are this is true. Some of them pretend to be this is true.

As far as judging Christianity for what they did and as a student of history - I have long thought(even before Obama made mention of it) that this is all part of the "natural" cycle of history. Doesn't mean we should not do everything we can to stop them. Doesn't make what they do right or just. But it kind of just is, "their turn". Just like the crusades, and with Islam being a newer religion, we now have radical Islam. It is what it is and we have to fight it. Eventually, I have no doubt it will run its course as well, but that could take decades or even centuries.

I disagree with you about the law thing. If the US(which already has some of the most draconian piracy laws in the world) had a death penalty for downloads, and everybody knows it's illegal but still does it, it would have to execute a whole lot of people and for what? Just because a law exists doesn't mean it's right(I have no problem with people disobeying the law when it comes to smoking marijuana, either cause that's another ridiculous law). Some laws should be challenged. Slavery used to be protected by law, does that make it just? If somebody opposed it, did they deserve to die? And there are many other examples like that.

Edited November 23, 2015 by OriZ

[Comment 8]

You are obviously not a practicing(or a "partial" very selective practicing) Muslim. That is ok I'm the same way as a Jew. You do realize that if you were practicing according to the Quran that's on your dresser your wife would have had to convert.

Would you say that it is fair at least to say that Isis, as well as other Muslims that commit those crimes at least do it thinking that they are doing it for and in the name of Islam? Whether they are or aren't, that is THEIR perspective on it. Although the funny thing is - I just read today that the "Fugitive Paris jihadist loved gay bars, drugs and PlayStation"

http://nypost.com/2015/11/22/missing-paris-attacker-loved-gay-bars-and-playstation/

All very Islamic things as we all know lol. A hint of hypocricy in alot of them. So alot of them are not as Muslim as they may think they are this is true. Some of them pretend to be this is true.

As far as judging Christianity for what they did and as a student of history - I have long thought(even before Obama made mention of it) that this is all part of the "natural" cycle of history. Doesn't mean we should not do everything we can to stop them. Doesn't make what they do right or just. But it kind of just is, "their turn". Just like the crusades, and with Islam being a newer religion, we now have radical Islam. It is what it is and we have to fight it. Eventually, I have no doubt it will run its course as well, but that could take decades or even centuries.

I disagree with you about the law thing. If the US(which already has some of the most draconian piracy laws in the world) had a death penalty for downloads, and everybody knows it's illegal but still does it, it would have to execute a whole lot of people and for what? Just because a law exists doesn't mean it's right(I have no problem with people disobeying the law when it comes to smoking marijuana, either cause that's another ridiculous law). Some laws should be challenged. Slavery used to be protected by law, does that make it just? If somebody opposed it, did they deserve to die? And there are many other examples like that.

Hello there, thanks for leaving a comment.

First, I memorize my Quran since I was a child and I do all my prayers. I always act according to it. You are wrong if you think according to the Quran my wife should convert. Simply because as a Muslim man I am allowed to marry a Christian or Jewish woman.

As for ISIS thinking or doing it for Islam I also disagree here. Because the animals that are bombing and killing innocent people, they are doing it because they love to do it. Just like some people steal for the love of stealing and not because they need it. Is it sickness? Could be but it is even worse than that. Is it for religion as there is no religion on this earth that is asking people to be terrorist bombing and killing innocents every single minute. So if they are doing it thinking they are doing it for God, their god must be the devil. It is a group of monsters out for fame and notoriety and thrills and money and sex. I agree with you some of them totally believe they are doing it for God.But their knowledge of God, they got from their leader not from the Quran, or the Bible or the Old Testament.

As for some country laws, I already said I don't agree to a lot of it but my point was if the persons knows the punishment is going to be severe, he should think a thousand times before committing the crime. And I agree with you that if the law is wrong we should change it. But can we change it by committing the crime?

Thank you for a very wise comment and by the way my best friend is Jewish called Arney. We have many long discussions on various topics but always with peace and love but unlike as the media says that we hate each other.

[OriZ 3,157]

Hello there, thanks for leaving a comment.

First, I memorize my Quran since I was a child and I do all my prayers. I always act according to it. You are wrong if you think according to the Quran my wife should convert. Simply because as a Muslim man I am allowed to marry a Christian or Jewish woman.

As for ISIS thinking or doing it for Islam I also disagree here. Because the animals that are bombing and killing innocent people, they are doing it because they love to do it. Just like some people steal for the love of stealing and not because they need it. Is it sickness? Could be but it is even worse than that. Is it for religion as there is no religion on this earth that is asking people to be terrorist bombing and killing innocents every single minute. So if they are doing it thinking they are doing it for God, their god must be the devil. It is a group of monsters out for fame and notoriety and thrills and money and sex. I agree with you some of them totally believe they are doing it for God.But their knowledge of God, they got from their leader not from the Quran, or the Bible or the Old Testament.

As for some country laws, I already said I don't agree to a lot of it but my point was if the persons knows the punishment is going to be severe, he should think a thousand times before committing the crime. And I agree with you that if the law is wrong we should change it. But can we change it by committing the crime?

Thank you for a very wise comment and by the way my best friend is Jewish called Arney. We have many long discussions on various topics but always with peace and love but unlike as the media says that we hate each other.

I guess that it all depends on your interpretation. The bible, all bible, and all religious books, like to contradict themselves. In certain parts of the old testament it will say one thing and in another a different thing. Same with the new testament. Same with the Quran.

At one point in time it did permit a Muslim man to marry up to 4 non Muslim women as long as they are either Jewish or Christian, yes. However according to many this practice is no longer valid. It is also disliked by Muslim scholars because the Caliph, Umar, banned interfaith marriages for Muslim men. And, Quran verse 4:25 tells Muslims to marry Muslims.

In addition, in many parts in the Quran it calls upon Muslims to fight non-believers. Kinda contradicts with allowing one to marry one.

(8:39, 9:29, 9:5, 9:11(weird coincidence), 9:56-57, 2:193, 3:83).

There's also places in the Hadith:

(1:33, 19:4294, 8:387, 53:392, 2:24, 60:80, 60:40, 59:643,

[OriZ 3,157]

In many places in the Hadith, Muhammad tells his followers that he has been ordered by Allah to fight unbelievers until they profess their faith in Islam (theShahada).

According to Muslim historians, when Abu Sufyan went to seek peace with Muhammad, he was instead forced to embrace Islam. The exact words spoken to him in Muhammad's presence were, "Submit and testify that there is no God but Allah and that Muhammad is the apostle of Allah before you lose your head" - (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 814). He did.

The entire city of Mecca followed suit, even though the residents and leaders detested Muhammad and resisted his preaching from the beginning. Most of them "converted" to Islam the day that he abruptly marched into their city with an army.

Meccans who would not change their religion were forcibly expelled from the city following that last Haj (Quran 9:5). The Christians and Jews living in Arabia at the time suffered the same fate, courtesy of a deathbed directive from Muhammad. They were given the choice of either accepting Islam or being forced off their land (Sahih Muslim 19:4366).

The Jews at Khaybar were not at war with Muhammad when he ordered his Jihadis to attack them. Even his faithful son-in-law, Ali, whom he chose to head the mission, was somewhat perplexed as to the pretext on which they were to assault this peaceful farming community so far away from Medina:

The Jews were caught entirely be surprise, of course. Their wealth was stolen and their women and children taken and distributed as slaves by the prophet of Islam to his men. Muhammad even took a woman for himself - after have her husband put to death.

Muhammad said: 'Proceed on and do not look about until Allah grants you victory', and Ali went a bit and then halted and did not look about and then said in a loud voice: 'Allah's Messenger, on what issue should I fight with the people?' Thereupon he (the Prophet) said: 'Fight with them until they bear testimony to the fact that there is no god but Allah and Muhammad is his Messenger' (Sahih Muslim 31:5917)

Before he died, Muhammad sent his warriors against pagan Arab tribes, such as the al-Harith, demanding that they either convert to Islam or be wiped out (naturally, they opted for Islam). He cursed Christians and Jews to the very end (Bukhari 8:427).

According to al-Shafi in "The Ordinances of the Quran", Muhammad "defeated the people until they entered Islam by hook or by crook." Muslims are taught to follow in the way of their prophet. A devotee under the reign of Umar put it this way "Our Prophet, the Messenger of our Lord, has ordered us to fight you till you worship Allah Alone or give Jizya (i.e. tribute)" (Bukhari 53:386).

Likewise, Abu Bakr, Muhammad's closest companion and immediate successor, pressed Jihad aggressively into foreign territory against people who did not want war and were of no threat. In a letter sent to the Persians, the caliph bluntly stated, "You should convert to Islam, and then you will be safe, for if you don't, you should know that I have come to you with an army of men that love death, as you love life."

Through the centuries, Muslims have forced Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Zoroastrians, pagans and others to accept Islam, either by bluntly offering them death as an alternative, or by making their lives so miserable (ie. taxes, denial of rights...) that the conquered eventually convert to Islam under the strain.

Forced conversions persist among extremists. Recently in Egypt, a Christian girl was kidnapped and told that she would be raped if she did not convert. In 2010, an 11-year-old Christian boy in Pakistan was kept enslaved in chains (1, 2) by his Muslim landlord, who proudly told the world that he would liberate the lad if he embraced Islam.

Neither of these examples of attempted forced conversion was condemned by Islamic organizations, even in the West. From the Muslim perspective, the victim in each case technically retains the "choice" to convert, even if the only alternative is death. In fact, some even lauded the Pakistani slave-owner for being magnanimous in offering freedom and debt relief to his subject for embracing Islam.

After the high-profile kidnapping and forced conversion of hundreds of Christian girls by Boko Haram in 2014, a Muslim woman in the UK famously proclaimed that they had actually been "liberated" from the "shackles of slavery."

It is also important to note the critical role that jizya plays in Islamic conversion. According to the Quran, paying a "tax" to Muslims is the only avenue of escape for those who don't want to leave their religion. This source of income explains why Muhammad and his successor did not force everyone to convert to Islam following a military conquest.

As Muhammad realized with the Jews of Khaybar - who were allowed to keep their farming community provided they directed the profits of their labor to him - it was often more lucrative to leave local economies in place rather than killing every male who wouldn't convert. This became the loose rule for the Muslim armies that swept across Christian, Jewish, Persian, Hindu and Buddhist lands in the decades that followed. Part of the money collected was used to finance further Islamic military expansion, producing more income and more "converts".

As Muhammad put it: "My sustenance is under the shade of my spear, and he who disobeys my orders will be humiliated by paying Jizya" (another translation: "My provision has been placed under the shadow of my spear, and abasement and humility have been placed on the one who disobeys my command.") This hadith has been quoted by al-Qaeda and is found in the original version of Bukhari and Ahmad (5114 or 4869, depending on the translation).

In fairness, Muslims have generally tended to follow verse 2:256 of the Quran, which states, "Let there be no compulsion in religion." and have not felt it right to force others into embracing Islam. However, this does not change the religion itself. Verse 2:256 was clearly abrogated by later verses, particularly in Sura 9 - otherwise the practice of killing apostates if they do not recant their chose faith would not have become an acceptable part of Islamic law.

Another point to keep in mind is that in Islam, practice is more important than belief. Muslims are commanded to fight unbelievers until they say they believe in Allah (or pay the Jizya), but there seems to be a tacit understanding that belief itself can't be forced (what is may be what is really meant by "there is no compulsion in religion"). Nevertheless, once a subjugated individual outwardly converts to Islam under the strain of taxes and discrimination, they are not allowed to recant upon penalty of death. Their children must also be raised Muslim. And, if they aren't, it is a sign of apostasy - subject to death. This is how Islam managed to spread so successfully within conquered populations to ratios in the high 90th percentiles over the native religion.

It is ironic that the Muslim community is most sensitive to a non-Muslim presence in "Muslim lands" when those lands were not originally Muslim until they were conquered by force. The blatant double standard is rhetorically dismissed by declaring that Islam was the original religion practiced by Jews (such as Moses) and Christians (such as Jesus and his followers). Thus the conquered populations are said to be "reverts."

One last point of interest is that Muhammad's practice of ordering people to profess their belief in him proved disastrous both for his own family and the legacy of his religion. By the time of his death, his empire included a great many people and tribes who had accepted his rule merely to avoid war and slavery. Many of them wanted out after he died, and several wars were immediately fought, resulting in thousands of deaths.

Even Muhammad's sworn enemy of Abu Sufyan may have gotten the last laugh. So ambitious was the prophet of Islam, that he accepted his former foe's outward profession of allegiance (at the point of a sword) in order to expand his empire. Yet, it was Abu Sufyan's own children who ultimately benefited - at the expense of Muhammad's family.

Abu Sufyan's son, Muawiyah, inherited the empire after defeating Muhammad's adopted son, Ali. He also poisoned Hasan, one of the prophet's two favorite grandsons. Abu Sufyan's grandson, Yazid, became the next caliph and promptly had the head of Muhammad's other favorite grandson, Hussein, brought to him on a platter.

So from this, you could see why I believe that the terrorists at least think what they are doing is in the name of Islam. They are not killing just for the sake of killing. For instance in Iraq they offered the option to convert, or pay the tax, or die, same as what's written above.

Like I said, there's nothing to be ashamed of, all religions practiced this. But it's crucial to be aware of WHY those people think what they are doing is in the name of god and not try to sweep it under the rug. You mentioned your best friend is Jewish, I myself have some good muslim friends. I also have a half Muslim half Jewish former Chechen friend(immigrant to Israel from the former Soviet union). It's kinda funny cause in Islam he's considered a muslim with a muslim father but in Judaism he is Jewish cause his mom's Jewish. I also have an ex who is half Muslim. Before I met my now American wife, on one of my trips to England I met her, her mom is Persian and moved to England shortly after the revolution, the father is a Christian Brit. lol it's an interesting world we live in. I don't think that all Muslims are bad, but I do think that some are doing themselves a disservice by trying to sweep things under the rug instead of fighting extremism head on.

Edited November 23, 2015 by OriZ

[Comment 8]

I guess that it all depends on your interpretation. The bible, all bible, and all religious books, like to contradict themselves. In certain parts of the old testament it will say one thing and in another a different thing. Same with the new testament. Same with the Quran.

At one point in time it did permit a Muslim man to marry up to 4 non Muslim women as long as they are either Jewish or Christian, yes. However according to many this practice is no longer valid. It is also disliked by Muslim scholars because the Caliph, Umar, banned interfaith marriages for Muslim men. And, Quran verse 4:25 tells Muslims to marry Muslims.

In addition, in many parts in the Quran it calls upon Muslims to fight non-believers. Kinda contradicts with allowing one to marry one.

(8:39, 9:29, 9:5, 9:11(weird coincidence), 9:56-57, 2:193, 3:83).

There's also places in the Hadith:

(1:33, 19:4294, 8:387, 53:392, 2:24, 60:80, 60:40, 59:643,

Hello again! I am really glad we are having this discussion.

First I assure you there is a single version of the Quran that has not changed during history. Feel free to compare 1000 yr old copy to the new copy and you will not find a change. About the marriage it does not ask Muslim to marry Muslim. It says a believer is to marry a believer. Believer here includes Christian and Jew. The Muslim woman is not allowed to marry any but a Muslim. A Muslim man can marry Christian or Jew.

About the part that Muslims are to fight non-believers it was during war times. War declared from both sides and this part is no longer in effect as it was converted by part number 256 surah number 2 which says " There is no compulsion in religion; the right way is henceforth distinct from the wrong" The call for fight is only in effect in wars to defend your country as it is still in effect in all the world. Caliph Omar does not dare to change something the prophet did and the prophet had a Christian wife Maria. She was also the mother of his son. Caliph Omar can only say his opinion or give advice but he can not change.

About hadiths: it is divided into three portions the first is correct, the second is weak and the third has no proof that the prophet said it. I can't go deep into this as it is unrelated to the topic and people will get frustrated with us. So to follow hadiths you have to be 100% sure what the proof of it is and follow the teller to the first person that said it.

Thank you

[OriZ 3,157]

Hello again! I am really glad we are having this discussion.

First I assure you there is a single version of the Quran that has not changed during history. Feel free to compare 1000 yr old copy to the new copy and you will not find a change. About the marriage it does not ask Muslim to marry Muslim. It says a believer is to marry a believer. Believer here includes Christian and Jew. The Muslim woman is not allowed to marry any but a Muslim. A Muslim man can marry Christian or Jew.

About the part that Muslims are to fight non-believers it was during war times. War declared from both sides and this part is no longer in effect as it was converted by part number 256 surah number 2 which says " There is no compulsion in religion; the right way is henceforth distinct from the wrong" The call for fight is only in effect in wars to defend your country as it is still in effect in all the world. Caliph Omar does not dare to change something the prophet did and the prophet had a Christian wife Maria. She was also the mother of his son. Caliph Omar can only say his opinion or give advice but he can not change.

About hadiths: it is divided into three portions the first is correct, the second is weak and the third has no proof that the prophet said it. I can't go deep into this as it is unrelated to the topic and people will get frustrated with us. So to follow hadiths you have to be 100% sure what the proof of it is and follow the teller to the first person that said it.

Thank you

I didn't say there are other versions, just that all religious books tend to contradict themselves in different parts of the book.

Yes in my other post I did mention(in bold) 2:256 which is widely followed nowadays. However, what does one consider wartime? If you ask the terrorists war was declared on them by the west and they are declaring war on the west as well. So you can say it was declared by both sides and so they should fight all non believers. That is what I believe is happening. But like I said in Christian history there's plenty of examples of not being too different. Islam is a newer religion and history tends to repeat itself.

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

thanks to you

hmmm Asking them to go easy on me now that was funny , I didn't know I was going to war. should I bring my bullet proof vest or something

Again thank you and I can point someone to what I think is the right direction but I can't make the blind see the light.

Cause sometimes here we get a little heated, but I think when the dust settles we all consider each other part of our dysfunctional family.

I am known around here as the very middle of the road guy and somewhat of a grammar snob.

Welcome aboard.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

Good thread, thank you for posting Comment.

[Comment 8]

I didn't say there are other versions, just that all religious books tend to contradict themselves in different parts of the book.

Yes in my other post I did mention(in bold) 2:256 which is widely followed nowadays. However, what does one consider wartime? If you ask the terrorists war was declared on them by the west and they are declaring war on the west as well. So you can say it was declared by both sides and so they should fight all non believers. That is what I believe is happening. But like I said in Christian history there's plenty of examples of not being too different. Islam is a newer religion and history tends to repeat itsel

hahah I agree with you about what the terrorists are saying but they also they didn't declare war on west alone but They declared war on - east - north - south as well. They declared war on anyone and everyone that does not follow them ( Aliens) included. lets hope all the world unite to get rid of these monsters without hurting the innocent

Thank you

[Comment 8]

Cause sometimes here we get a little heated, but I think when the dust settles we all consider each other part of our dysfunctional family.

I am known around here as the very middle of the road guy and somewhat of a grammar snob.

Welcome aboard.

I am glad to be aboard thank you. and I will make sure to hide once the heat is out of control or at least bring very dark sun glasses

Thank you

Good thread, thank you for posting Comment.

Thank you ready4ONE

[eieio 1,594]

It says a believer is to marry a believer.

In most religions a believer is only someone who believes in that specific religion. If it doesn't matter what religion they believe in…why not just merge the whole mess.

[Comment 8]

In most religions a believer is only someone who believes in that specific religion. If it doesn't matter what religion they believe inwhy not just merge the whole mess.

Hello there

In the Quran believer means someone who believes in God which are Jewish and Christian and Muslim. Where the rest were worshiping some forms of the devil.

P.S. As you can tell from the words the followers of Islam are called Muslim.

Thank you