We Can't Fight Radical Islam By Being Politically Correct

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

Not surprising at all.

Perhaps YOU can give a definite answer. An actual contribution to the thread, instead of cheap pot shots at people you don't agree with, I mean. Or not, your choice.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

I know, and I was pointing out the figure he gave you was already adjusted. It was number of homicides, not number of total deaths. You did not need to apply ratios.

Well, then let's be a tad more accurate.

8.454 gun homicides in 2013.

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2009-2013.xls

Compared to the 2,596,553 deaths in the US in 2013, that's 3/10ths of one percent.

Suicides in 2013: 41,149 (21,175 by firearms alone)

Gun homicides: 8454

Gun suicides: 21,175

So no, it's not a 2:1 ratio. More like 2.5:1.

[ILoveMonica1 43]

It seems most here would agree that there are already too many firearm homicides in the US by people who have no respect for the laws of our great country. Now I must ask: Why would you want to bring thousands more into our country, who may not have any desire to convert their thoughts/beliefs to conform to "Western Infidel Ways", some of whom may actually be intent on jihad, when it would be SO EASY for said folks to get their hands on a gun and go on a killing spree? With as many crazies as already exist here in the US who are willing to take lives, does it make sense to import more?

And no, I am not saying all the refugees are bad apples. There are certain to be many that actually need help and would be appreciative of assistance. (At least until they arrive, settle in, and start complaining about how little they are getting, as they have already done in Europe) But I am sure that any time a company ships a trailer full of fruit to market, the grocery store ends up with a certain percentage of bad apples, amirite?

It seems odd to me that France just learned a hard lesson, but for some reason the U.S. refuses to look at the example and learn from it. I guess being politically correct is more important than saving lives. As many here know, there is no right to immigrate. It does suck that 10% of the people can ruin it for the other 90%, but those are the breaks. These people aren't US Citizens, permanent residents, or even visa holders. As such, they have no reason to come to the US. There's plenty of allegedly stable countries in the middle East. The Gulf states, Iran etc. Maybe Indonesia IDK. I'd say it's a safe bet that some of these "refugees" will end up blowing people up in other Muslim countries that welcome them. These people are out to kill those that don't agree with them. It's a pretty simple thing and there's ample evidence of it. Just look at the actions of the past 30 years. I'm not saying all of them., but definitely an unsafe ratio. Look back on 9/11. We gave those folks student visas to come here and learn how to fly planes. Looking back on it, I'd guess they wished they didn't make that mistake. .

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

But you are asking people to put away their ill-conceived notions that ISIS is Bush's fault. You are asking them to understand that ISIS has been around since 1999 (as a named group), and associated themselves with al queda in 2004. But as anyone who does any research knows, the ACTIONS of people who claim allegiance to ISIS has been around much, MUCH longer. Even before the US was a territory. They have been killing and terrorizing for centuries. Nothing the US can do will ever stop that. Keep them outside our borders, and they will do it. Let them in, and they will have more acreage to do it. Terrorists terrorize. And some of them are clever enough to "take a nap" as they settle in and wait for the "big event". But to some, it is worth the risks, hoping they will assimilate. I don't get that line of thinking.

It seems odd to me that France just learned a hard lesson, but for some reason the U.S. refuses to look at the example and learn from it. I guess being politically correct is more important than saving lives. As many here know, there is no right to immigrate. It does suck that 10% of the people can ruin it for the other 90%, but those are the breaks. These people aren't US Citizens, permanent residents, or even visa holders. As such, they have no reason to come to the US. There's plenty of allegedly stable countries in the middle East. The Gulf states, Iran etc. Maybe Indonesia IDK. I'd say it's a safe bet that some of these "refugees" will end up blowing people up in other Muslim countries that welcome them. These people are out to kill those that don't agree with them. It's a pretty simple thing and there's ample evidence of it. Just look at the actions of the past 30 years. I'm not saying all of them., but definitely an unsafe ratio. Look back on 9/11. We gave those folks student visas to come here and learn how to fly planes. Looking back on it, I'd guess they wished they didn't make that mistake. .

[ILoveMonica1 43]

But you are asking people to put away their ill-conceived notions that ISIS is Bush's fault. You are asking them to understand that ISIS has been around since 1999 (as a named group), and associated themselves with al queda in 2004. But as anyone who does any research knows, the ACTIONS of people who claim allegiance to ISIS has been around much, MUCH longer. Even before the US was a territory. They have been killing and terrorizing for centuries. Nothing the US can do will ever stop that. Keep them outside our borders, and they will do it. Let them in, and they will have more acreage to do it. Terrorists terrorize. And some of them are clever enough to "take a nap" as they settle in and wait for the "big event". But to some, it is worth the risks, hoping they will assimilate. I don't get that line of thinking.

My (other) wife is on Facebook going on about how Canada is going to start taking in 900 Syrian refugees a day. Somewhere there's an ISIS leader laughing his azz off and thanking Allah for his good fortune.

[Dakine10 5,452]

My (other) wife is on Facebook going on about how Canada is going to start taking in 900 Syrian refugees a day. Somewhere there's an ISIS leader laughing his azz off and thanking Allah for his good fortune.

Canada has resettled thousands of Muslim refugees since 1992. There have been 4 deaths attributed to terrorism in Canada during that time. Two of those deaths were the terrorists themselves. Damn statistics. Must be an anomaly.

[ILoveMonica1 43]

Canada has resettled thousands of Muslim refugees since 1992. There have been 4 deaths attributed to terrorism in Canada during that time. Two of those deaths were the terrorists themselves. Damn statistics. Must be an anomaly.

So it's Europeans and Americans they want to kill? Interesting. Canadians must know the secret anti-terrorist handshake.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

You, Sir, are good with numbers. I appreciate your ability to comprehend (and explain to the masses) the complicated algorithms I used to come up with my claim. Also, for the poster to whom you were replying, the 12,000 number I opted to use came from another poster's proclamation. I was just rolling with his numbers, rather than pointing out the fact that it fluctuates, and is actually in decline.

You should consider a career working with numbers. Oh wait...

Ok so the real number, for the real year 2013, was 11,000. Let's make sure and use your own 10,000 figure just to eliminate the gun deaths attributed to homicides that were really just badly categorized. But take it down even more to 8,000 since we just got a new figure for 2013.

8,000 gun homicides a real year 2013.

Vs 41, and I gave you the bonus of all Americans killed world wide since 911 and made the figure a more than generous 300.

OriZ apparently took the time to point out that there was no comparison and it was silly to try, between gun homicides in the single year (2013 here) and terrorist attack deaths here and abroad for Americans over a 14 year span. Unfortunately for him his post was deleted so we'll never know how he was able to explain what is obvious on its face, there is no comparison and the fretting, stewing and buying into ISIS propaganda is plain to see. As is the Muslim prejudice in such posts.

2,596,553 people died in the US in 2013 so obviously there are many ways to die but Islamic Terrorist attacks have to be at the proverbial low end of the stats that the risk is virtually incalculably small.

Edited November 21, 2015 by ready4ONE

[ILoveMonica1 43]

Seems pretty darn irresponsible to say that just since we haven't been victimized yet, that we shouldn't worry about it. Probably what the guy at the Portland, ME airport said when those guys went though security with box cutters. " Ahh, no one has ever done anything wrong with box cutters, no worries fellas. Go on through. You're good."

[ready4ONE 5,400]

Seems pretty darn irresponsible to say that just since we haven't been victimized yet, that we shouldn't worry about it. Probably what the guy at the Portland, ME airport said when those guys went though security with box cutters. " Ahh, no one has ever done anything wrong with box cutters, no worries fellas. Go on through. You're good."

But we have been victimized, to the tune of 300 deaths to terrorist attacks in 14 years. ISIS as the chicken little brain trust has opined has been in operation as ISIS since 1999 and under other names for a long time before that.

[ILoveMonica1 43]

Anyone that has followed the LEGAL immigration process knows that DOS discriminates based on the sex and origin of the petitioner. Compare men from Nigeria vs. women from Canada. I suspect the women from Canada have nearly a 100% success rate in getting a visa where the men from Nigeria probably have less than 50% Also, I'm fairly certain that the interview process is much more rigorous for the NIgerian than it is for the Canadian. So the govt. does set different standards for who is allowed and not allowed in to this country.

Edited November 21, 2015 by ILoveMonica1

[ILoveMonica1 43]

But we have been victimized, to the tune of 300 deaths to terrorist attacks in 14 years. ISIS as the chicken little brain trust has opined has been in operation as ISIS since 1999 and under other names for a long time before that.

So we should just ignore what's going on in Europe and in other countries simply because it hasn't happened on our soil in awhile? Seems a bit like sticking your head in the sand and ignoring what's going on in the world. We've had multiple attempts that's for sure. The Boston marathon thing comes to mind. I'm sure there's been many others. Again it seems really stupid to wait around until there's a enough bodies piled up in THIS country before taking some sort of preventive measures.

Edited November 21, 2015 by ILoveMonica1

[GandD 5,966]

Anyone that has followed the LEGAL immigration process knows that DOS discriminates based on the sex and origin of the petitioner. Compare men from Nigeria vs. women from Canada. I suspect the women from Canada have nearly a 100% success rate in getting a visa where the men from Nigeria probably have less than 50% Also, I'm fairly certain that the interview process is much more rigorous for the NIgerian than it is for the Canadian. So the govt. does set different standards for who is allowed and not allowed in to this country.

We didn't even have to go to an inverview for AOS. A guy I work with married a woman from Ethiopia. They def did. He said it was more of an interrogation. Put them in separate rooms hit them with lots of questions to see if there were any holes in their story.

[ILoveMonica1 43]

We didn't even have to go to an inverview for AOS. A guy I work with married a woman from Ethiopia. They def did. He said it was more of an interrogation. Put them in separate rooms hit them with lots of questions to see if there were any holes in their story.

Exactly. There's a reason for that. I suspect Ethiopia has fairly high rate of visa/immigration fraud as opposed to other countries. They don't just flip a coin and say "let's start screwing with people from Ethiopia this month"

Bottom line as that you can't help everyone. Security of the people already in the U.S. needs to be the number 1 priority. While commendable that people want to help these folks, we shouldn't sacrifice our lives, way of life, and security to do so.

[Dakine10 5,452]

So it's Europeans and Americans they want to kill? Interesting. Canadians must know the secret anti-terrorist handshake.

Canadians spend more per capita on education. The populace has seen some benefits from that investment. Perhaps they understand statistical analysis and risk management a little better than we do.