Orange County's Muslims denounce Paris attacks, fear backlash at home

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

In 2009, approximately 3,550 muslims were estimated to be serving in the military. There were approximately 1.175 million active duty folks, plus another 850,000 guard and reservists. Running those numbers means that somewhere around 0.18% of the military forces were muslims.

I don't think those numbers amount to much of a showing of muslims "speaking very loud and clear", from a numbers point of view.

Muslims in our military, fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, are speaking very loudly and clear, IMHO. The only thing civilians can do, is voice their opposition, as many Muslim leader around the world, and in the USA are doing.

I am sure this is untrue, probably a modified version of the truth of why he failed to join. Even George Washington had muslims fighting for him. Religion was never a discriminator for joining the military.

Muhammad Ali said his religion didn't allow him to enter the military.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

Muhammad Ali said his religion didn't allow him to enter the military.

In 2009, approximately 3,550 muslims were estimated to be serving in the military. There were approximately 1.175 million active duty folks, plus another 850,000 guard and reservists. Running those numbers means that somewhere around 0.18% of the military forces were muslims.

I don't think those numbers amount to much of a showing of muslims "speaking very loud and clear", from a numbers point of view.

I am sure this is untrue, probably a modified version of the truth of why he failed to join. Even George Washington had muslims fighting for him. Religion was never a discriminator for joining the military.

You're both right, sort of. He applied for conscience objection based on religious and personal views.

http://aavw.org/protest/homepage_ali.html

On August 23, 1966, Muhammad Ali embarked on the biggest "fight" of his life when he applied with the Selective Service for conscientious objector status on religious grounds (as a minister with the Nation of Islam). In what became an extensive legal, political, professional, and personal battle, Ali was convicted of draft evasion, stripped of his boxing title, and became a lightning rod — and a voice — for opinions on the Vietnam War. Muhammad Ali's willingness to speak out against racism in the United States, and the affect it had on domestic and foreign policy, earned him many supporters and detractors. In 1971, nearly five years after it began, Ali's legal battle finally culminated with a unanimous decision (8-0 with Thurgood Marshall abstaining) by the United States Supreme Court overturning his draft conviction. The following resources document his struggle, his views, and his influence.

[JohnR! 5,495]

Similar to those who refuse to serve, or bake cakes for gay couples? Who woulda thunk...

You're both right, sort of. He applied for conscience objection based on religious and personal views.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

Similar to those who refuse to serve, or bake cakes for gay couples? Who woulda thunk...

Honestly, I think it was more based on personal beliefs than religious.

Why should they ask me to put on a uniform and go ten thousand miles from home and drop bombs and bullets on brown people in Vietnam while so-called Negro people in Louisville are treated like dogs and denied simple human rights?

No, I am not going ten thousand miles from home to help murder and burn another poor nation simply to continue the domination of white slave masters of the darker people the world over. This is the day when such evils must come to an end. I have been warned that to take such a stand would put my prestige in jeopardy and could cause me to lose millions of dollars which should accrue to me as the champion. But I have said it once and I will say it again. The real enemy of my people is right here. I will not disgrace my religion, my people or myself by becoming a tool to enslave those who are fighting for their own justice, freedom and equality…

If I thought the war was going to bring freedom and equality to twenty-two million of my people they wouldn’t have to draft me, I’d join tomorrow. But I either have to obey the laws of the land or the laws of Allah. I have nothing to lose by standing up for my beliefs. So I’ll go to jail. We’ve been in jail for four hundred years.

- See more at: http://alphahistory.com/vietnam/muhammad-ali-refuses-to-fight-1967/#sthash.8pSNj3sw.dpuf

Why should they ask me to put on a uniform and go ten thousand miles from home and drop bombs and bullets on brown people in Vietnam while so-called Negro people in Louisville are treated like dogs and denied simple human rights?

Edited November 18, 2015 by Stay Woke

[GandD 5,966]

I am sure this is untrue, probably a modified version of the truth of why he failed to join. Even George Washington had muslims fighting for him. Religion was never a discriminator for joining the military.

Vietnam War and resistance to the draft

Ali registered for the draft on his eighteenth birthday and was listed as 1-A in 1962.^[93] In 1964, he was reclassified as 1-Y (fit for service only in times of national emergency) after two mental tests found his IQ was 78^[94] (16th percentile), well below the armed force's 30th-percentile threshold.^[93] (He was quoted as saying, "I said I was the greatest, not the smartest!")^[93][94] By early 1966, the army lowered its standards to permit soldiers above the 15th percentile and Ali was again classified as 1-A.^[93][94][19] This classification meant he was now eligible for the draft and induction into the United States Army during a time when the U.S. was involved in the Vietnam War.

When notified of this status, Ali declared that he would refuse to serve in the Army and publicly considered himself a conscientious objector.^[19] Ali stated: "War is against the teachings of the Holy Qur'an. I'm not trying to dodge the draft. We are not supposed to take part in no wars unless declared by Allah or The Messenger. We don't take part in Christian wars or wars of any unbelievers." More succinctly and famously he said, "I ain't got no quarrel with them Viet Cong—no Viet Cong ever called me (Had to remove due to VJ TOS)." The statement articulated, for many people, a reason to oppose the war.^[95]

Appearing for his scheduled induction into the U.S. Armed Forces on April 28, 1967 in Houston, Ali refused three times to step forward at the call of his name. An officer warned him he was committing a felony punishable by five years in prison and a fine of $10,000. Once more, Ali refused to budge when his name was called. As a result, he was arrested. On the same day the New York State Athletic Commission suspended his boxing license and stripped him of his title. Other boxing commissions followed suit. Ali would not be able to obtain a license to box in any state for over three years.^[96]

At the trial on June 20, 1967, after only 21 minutes of deliberation, the jury found Ali guilty.^[19] After a Court of Appeals upheld the conviction, the case went to the U.S. Supreme Court.

In the years between the appellate court decision and the Supreme Court verdict, Ali remained free. As public opinion began turning against the war and the Civil Rights movement continued to gather momentum, Ali became a popular speaker at colleges and universities across the country, rare if not unprecedented for a boxer. At Howard University, for example, he gave his popular "Black Is Best" speech to 4,000 cheering students and community intellectuals, after he was invited to speak by sociology professor Nathan Hare on behalf of the Black Power Committee, a student protest group.^[97][98]

On June 28, 1971, the Supreme Court in Clay v. United States overturned Ali's conviction by a unanimous 8-0 decision (Justice Thurgood Marshall did not participate).^[99] The decision was not based on, nor did it address, the merits of Ali's claims per se; rather, the Court held that since the Appeal Board gave no reason for the denial of a conscientious objector exemption to Ali, and that it was therefore impossible to determine which of the three basic tests for conscientious objector status offered in the Justice Department's brief that the Appeals Board relied on, Ali's conviction must be reversed.^[100]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Ali#Vietnam_War_and_resistance_to_the_draft

Right or wrong, that's what he used as his reasoning. Clearly lots of other Muslims have served in wars throughout the world.

Edited November 18, 2015 by GandD

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

Dodging a draft, regardless of the reason, is simply chicken poo. Regardless of his religion, he is a US citizen, and subject to the following:

"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."

[GandD 5,966]

I agree. However, I will say this. My dad served in Vietnam and eventually retired from the military back in the early 2000's. He says one of the best things that ever happened to our Military was the discontinuation of the draft. He said the quality of the people became much much much better in an all volunteer service. Was the draft necessary in WW2? I think so and so did most of America. In Vietnam? No way.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

I agree with that. Voluntary service would tend to provide those who want to be there.

That being said, countries that have mandatory service, such as S. Korea, are always guaranteed a certain number of soldiers from year to year. If they ever bring back the draft, they should include women in the registration process.

[JohnR! 5,495]

I agree. The Vietnam war was worlds away from previous conflicts, and unjustified to the end. Having said that, our military is a voluntary force, and the draft should not have existed.

Back on topic however, my point was to elucidate further on another poster's unfounded argument, that Muslims are not rising against the notion terrorism and Islam should go together.

Honestly, I think it was more based on personal beliefs than religious.

Why should they ask me to put on a uniform and go ten thousand miles from home and drop bombs and bullets on brown people in Vietnam while so-called Negro people in Louisville are treated like dogs and denied simple human rights?

No, I am not going ten thousand miles from home to help murder and burn another poor nation simply to continue the domination of white slave masters of the darker people the world over. This is the day when such evils must come to an end. I have been warned that to take such a stand would put my prestige in jeopardy and could cause me to lose millions of dollars which should accrue to me as the champion. But I have said it once and I will say it again. The real enemy of my people is right here. I will not disgrace my religion, my people or myself by becoming a tool to enslave those who are fighting for their own justice, freedom and equality…

If I thought the war was going to bring freedom and equality to twenty-two million of my people they wouldn’t have to draft me, I’d join tomorrow. But I either have to obey the laws of the land or the laws of Allah. I have nothing to lose by standing up for my beliefs. So I’ll go to jail. We’ve been in jail for four hundred years.

- See more at: http://alphahistory.com/vietnam/muhammad-ali-refuses-to-fight-1967/#sthash.8pSNj3sw.dpuf

Why should they ask me to put on a uniform and go ten thousand miles from home and drop bombs and bullets on brown people in Vietnam while so-called Negro people in Louisville are treated like dogs and denied simple human rights?

[GandD 5,966]

Yeah no joke. In South Korea and Israel, the threat is more real so I'm sure there is more support for the draft. I can certainly understand why vietnam left a bad taste in people's mouths. We were never in any danger ya know?

I also don't think it would be a terrible thing if all American's had to go through a year of military training/living. Does a lot to teach respect and physical fitness.

[JohnR! 5,495]

We don't need no stinkin military training. We have guns.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

Thumbs up on the denouncement.

But I fear the 'front-lash' that has come (and will continue) from Muslim Terrorists.

[OriZ 3,157]

I also don't think it would be a terrible thing if all American's had to go through a year of military training/living. Does a lot to teach respect and physical fitness.

It does alot to prepare you much better for life. Normally people that go through at least some military training even be it in the US or Europe

It does alot to better prepare you for life too. You'd find that alot of times people that have had at least some kind of military training be it even in the US or Europe were alot more mature and alot sooner than those who have not. then again not so sure that's always a good thing either.

Thumbs up on the denouncement.

But I fear the 'front-lash' that has come (and will continue) from Muslim Terrorists.

What I don't understand is why we need to keep seeing post after post about how Muslims are fearing this or threatened by that when it's not like that's only a Muslim issue. Jews get threats, god knows Israelis get threats, black people get threats, native americans, etc...but hey lets shove this muslim thing down everyone's throat.

Don't get me wrong I don't condone it in any way shape or form but honestly at this point it's just like boo hoo. Grow a friggin backbone and get over it. Seriously. Jews and Israelis are ALWAYS afraid to walk around in Europe and sometimes even in the US. I mean just yesterday I was reading about a guy being attacked in NY because he was speaking Hebrew. I don't see me posting it all over this place...

[Sousuke 1,214]

Yeah no joke. In South Korea and Israel, the threat is more real so I'm sure there is more support for the draft. I can certainly understand why vietnam left a bad taste in people's mouths. We were never in any danger ya know?

I also don't think it would be a terrible thing if all American's had to go through a year of military training/living. Does a lot to teach respect and physical fitness.

I think our current selective service system is fine. If something really bad happened they could grab all the under 35s pretty quickly. I think it would be cool to have some abbreviated basic training for all at the age of 18 with yearly training periods until you hit 35.

It would cost a fortune though.

[OriZ 3,157]

Here ya go, fresh from the oven:

Jewish teacher stabbed in anti-semitic attack

Published: 18 Nov 2015 21:26 GMT+01:00

Police are hunting for three attackers who stabbed a Jewish school teacher in Marseille in what investigators say was an anti-Semitic attack. The assailants shouted support for Isis (Daesh) after the attack, reports say.

A teacher at a Jewish school in the southern French city of Marseille was stabbed Wednesday evening by three people shouting anti-Semitic obscenities and expressing support for the Islamic State group, local authorities said.

The attack on the teacher took place around 8:00 pm (1900 GMT) in the city's 13th district, police prefect Laurent Nunez said.

The 57-year-old victim, who was wearing a kippa, was attacked outside his home, a short distance from the school and synagogue complex, a source close to the investigation said.

The attackers who were travelling by scooter demanded he look at smartphone pictures of Toulouse jihadist Mohamed Merah, who shot dead three Jewish schoolchildren, a teacher and three soldiers in southwestern France in 2012, Marseille public prosecutor Brice Robin told AFP.

They also "showed him a t-shirt with the logo of Daesh (an acronym for Islamic State)" before lunging at him with a knife, injuring him in the arms, legs and stomach, Robin added.

The teacher, who escaped serious injury, was taken to hospital as officers fanned out across the district to search of the attackers, who fled when a police patrol arrived in the area.

"I'm very shocked. because this is the second incident of its kind in a very short time," Michele Teboul, the regional president of the Jewish representative group CRIF told AFP, adding she was "worried" about the threat of further attacks.

Last month, a man rounded on three Jews, stabbing one of them, near the same school and synagogue.

He too uttered anti-Semitic slurs.

Wednesday's stabbing comes as France is on high alert following the Islamist attacks that killed 129 people in Paris on Friday.

The terror attacks, which were claimed by the Islamic State jihadist group, were the worst in French history.

http://www.thelocal.fr/20151118/jewish-school-teacher-stabbed-in-anti-semitic-attack-france-marseille

Happens allllllllllllllllllll the time.

So honestly, I don't give a rat's ###.

EDIT: Man, you can't even use that body part in here?

Edited November 19, 2015 by OriZ