Revoke US Citizenship from Americans Who Join ISIS

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

Would you support revoking citizenship from Americans and green cards from Permanent residents who join ISIS?

Note the operative word underlined, I did not ask if you can or can't revoke citizenship.

Ironic that joining ISIS is one of the legal reasons to revoke, naturalized or born here

[Dakine10 5,452]

Would you support revoking citizenship from Americans and green cards from Permanent residents who join ISIS?

Note the operative word underlined, I did not ask if you can or can't revoke citizenship.

I know. I would support revoking green cards from LPR. I would not support revoking citizenship. I do not believe it's possible under current law and I do not think the law needs to be changed.

Yes it can . Join the military of an enemy is one

Current law does not allow natural born citizens to have thier citizenship revoked.

[eieio 1,594]

Why worry about their citizenship status? Just execute them and be done with it.

[Rob L 3,811]

Ditto to Dakine...

What is the point of the this poll? We have criminal charges for NB citizens and criminal charges plus loss of residency (if you ever got out of an orange jump suit)

I guess to dot the legal tees and Iyes you may want to revoke the citizenship prior to an assassination or drone attack...but that has to be a corner case. I doubt it would stop us from taking out anyone who was deemed by the President to be a eminent threat to the US or it's interests.

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

I know. I would support revoking green cards from LPR. I would not support revoking citizenship. I do not believe it's possible under current law and I do not think the law needs to be changed.

Current law does not allow natural born citizens to have thier citizenship revoked.

:no:

INA 349

One of many offenses.

(7) conviction for treason or attempting by force to overthrow the U.S. government, including conspiracy convictions.

(3) serving in the military of a foreign country as a commissioned or noncommissioned officer or when the foreign state is engaged in hostilities against the United States; (4) serving in a foreign government position that requires an oath of allegiance to or the nationality of that foreign country, provided the person is at least 18 years old;

[Dakine10 5,452]

:no:

INA 349

One of many offenses.

(7) conviction for treason or attempting by force to overthrow the U.S. government, including conspiracy convictions.

(3) serving in the military of a foreign country as a commissioned or noncommissioned officer or when the foreign state is engaged in hostilities against the United States; (4) serving in a foreign government position that requires an oath of allegiance to or the nationality of that foreign country, provided the person is at least 18 years old;

If you read INA 349 in it's entirety, it's about citizenship and naturalization. Naturalized citizenship can be revoked. It can't if you were born here.

I'll go further and say we couldn't change our law without violating international law. We are a party to all of the UN conventions on statelessness.

[Dakine10 5,452]

Ditto to Dakine...

What is the point of the this poll? We have criminal charges for NB citizens and criminal charges plus loss of residency (if you ever got out of an orange jump suit)

I guess to dot the legal tees and Iyes you may want to revoke the citizenship prior to an assassination or drone attack...but that has to be a corner case. I doubt it would stop us from taking out anyone who was deemed by the President to be a eminent threat to the US or it's interests.

There could even be a detrimental effect to revoking LPR and citizenship status. Many other countries would no longer extradite, or there would be conditions imposed.

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

If you read INA 349 in it's entirety, it's about citizenship and naturalization. Naturalized citizenship can be revoked. It can't if you were born here.

I'll go further and say we couldn't change our law without violating international law. We are a party to all of the UN conventions on statelessness.

349 pertains to naturalized and citizens by birth.

[Dakine10 5,452]

349 pertains to naturalized and citizens by birth.

And for the part you posted said any of the actions must be performed with the intention of relinquishing US nationality.

I'm not disputing that US citizen can give up their citizenship. I'm saying it can't be revoked against their will.

Edited November 16, 2015 by Dakine10

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

And for the part you posted said any of the actions must be performed with the intention of relinquishing US nationality.

I'm not disputing that US citizen can give up their citizenship. I'm saying it can't be revoked against their will.

Catch 22. If they commit those acts , they can take their citizenship and say it was done voluntary. The state does not have to prove you did with the intention of giving it up.

I will agree we are splitting hairs.

[newacct 688]

If the person was born or naturalized in the United States, it is unconstitutional to take away their US citizenship under any circumstances without their intent to relinquish US citizenship. Period. And yes, the state does have to prove that they did whatever action with the intent of relinquishing US citizenship.

[Dakine10 5,452]

If the person was born or naturalized in the United States, it is unconstitutional to take away their US citizenship under any circumstances without their intent to relinquish US citizenship. Period. And yes, the state does have to prove that they did whatever action with the intent of relinquishing US citizenship.

There are grounds for revoking naturalized citizenship. Membership with a totalitarian or terrorist organization within 5 years of naturalization is one of them. They got rid of a lot of former Nazi's that way.

Here's the link in case anyone's curious:

http://www.uscis.gov/policymanual/HTML/PolicyManual-Volume12-PartL-Chapter2.html

Edited November 16, 2015 by Dakine10

[newacct 688]

There are grounds for revoking naturalized citizenship. Membership with a totalitarian or terrorist organization within 5 years of naturalization is one of them. They got rid of a lot of former Nazi's that way.

Here's the link in case anyone's curious:

http://www.uscis.gov/policymanual/HTML/PolicyManual-Volume12-PartL-Chapter2.html

That's actually just a case of fraudulent naturalization. Membership with a totalitarian or terrorist organization within 5 years of naturalization is presumed to prove lack of attachment to the Constitution at the time of naturalization and thus fraud in naturalization. Since the naturalization was fraudulent, they are considered to have never had citizenship, and thus their citizenship wasn't taken away.

[Dakine10 5,452]

That's actually just a case of fraudulent naturalization. Membership with a totalitarian or terrorist organization within 5 years of naturalization is presumed to prove lack of attachment to the Constitution at the time of naturalization and thus fraud in naturalization. Since the naturalization was fraudulent, they are considered to have never had citizenship, and thus their citizenship wasn't taken away.

Yes, as it says, it becomes prima facie evidence of willful misrepresentation. However the person was a considered a citizen during that time until the fraud was discovered.

I agree with what you are saying though. These instances all apply to fraud, illegal activities or otherwise that would have made the person ineligible in the first place. If the naturalization is legitimate, the rights and legal process is the same as for natural born citizenship.