CNN admits gun control in Europe does not work

[Dakine10 5,452]

I already showed you right above your post. Can you read?

What you posted has nothing to do with what I asked.

If you don't want to answer, fair enough.

[OriZ 3,157]

Anyway, the point of the graph was to show the relative numbers of deaths caused by terrorism vs guns. Using just murders would have been more appropriate, I guess, since all terrorism related deaths would be murders. The article was posted in another thread and perhaps I should have re-linked. The point being how much we spend and how much of our rights we have given up in the war on terror vs how many deaths are causes annually, compared to the same thing with firearms.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/oct/05/viral-image/fact-checking-comparison-gun-deaths-and-terrorism-/

So a few hundred deaths a year from terrorism is worth fighting WWIII, but 10000 deaths is just collateral damage?

I get that. But you could also make the argument that that is a temporary situation, and that while terrorism has not arrived into the US yet as it has to some other countries, it potentially could in the future. If you compared gun violence or homicides to terrorism in certain countries you would get completely different results. One could also argue that guns in the US have been a deterrent. Not saying that is necessarily a valid argument but nontheless it is one and there will probably never be a way to know exactly how valid it is(unless we implemented gun control of course and saw what happens)

The third point I'd want to make again is that while I would not call it collateral damage there certainly is a price for freedom. Would you support having armed guards and wands at the entrance to every public place such as a mall, restaurant, etc so that everybody gets checked before they enter(like they do in Israel for example). Trust me I've lived with it for long enough yes it keeps you safer and a suicide bomber couldn't get 30-40 people inside a mall that way but I'll take my freedom and my chances.

And the last point I want to make again is that incidents that happened in gun free zone or places with gun control had alot to do with the numbers. For instance more than 500 murders in Chicago alone. With NYC and LA it's over 1200. Just those 3 places alone.

What you posted has nothing to do with what I asked.

If you don't want to answer, fair enough.

That was not for you, as I was quoting Stay Woke.

Edited November 17, 2015 by OriZ

[Rob L 3,811]

It was also Friday 13th, world kindness day, and the feast of St. Homobonus, among other things.

I'm not sure if any of that matter's to terrorists. Obviously the timing was about looking for mass casualties. I doubt all the events going on in Paris that day had anything to do with what lunar month it was.

Did I miss Steak and B you know what Day again?

[Dakine10 5,452]

That was not for you, as I was quoting Stay Woke.

My bad. It was past my bed time.

I get that. But you could also make the argument that that is a temporary situation, and that while terrorism has not arrived into the US yet as it has to some other countries, it potentially could in the future. If you compared gun violence or homicides to terrorism in certain countries you would get completely different results. One could also argue that guns in the US have been a deterrent. Not saying that is necessarily a valid argument but nontheless it is one and there will probably never be a way to know exactly how valid it is(unless we implemented gun control of course and saw what happens)

The third point I'd want to make again is that while I would not call it collateral damage there certainly is a price for freedom. Would you support having armed guards and wands at the entrance to every public place such as a mall, restaurant, etc so that everybody gets checked before they enter(like they do in Israel for example). Trust me I've lived with it for long enough yes it keeps you safer and a suicide bomber couldn't get 30-40 people inside a mall that way but I'll take my freedom and my chances.

And the last point I want to make again is that incidents that happened in gun free zone or places with gun control had alot to do with the numbers. For instance more than 500 murders in Chicago alone. With NYC and LA it's over 1200. Just those 3 places alone.

Fair enough on your personal experience. A perspective that statistics can't provide.

I disagree on the gun free zone effect That would make the assumption that murders would drop significantly in those cities if the designation changed. I'm not sure it would change at all.

[OriZ 3,157]

Again that's a perspective that we would probably never know for sure which one is true. I actually happen to think that if people knew that, say, teachers had guns in a school, they might not choose that school to shoot people in.

But, we're all entitled to our opinions.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

I already showed you right above your post. Can you read?

Since you're a numbers guy, do you think most of those numbers are due to gun accidents or suicides? If we removed them from the equation, how many people would be left?

I get that. But you could also make the argument that that is a temporary situation, and that while terrorism has not arrived into the US yet as it has to some other countries, it potentially could in the future. If you compared gun violence or homicides to terrorism in certain countries you would get completely different results. One could also argue that guns in the US have been a deterrent. Not saying that is necessarily a valid argument but nontheless it is one and there will probably never be a way to know exactly how valid it is(unless we implemented gun control of course and saw what happens)

The third point I'd want to make again is that while I would not call it collateral damage there certainly is a price for freedom. Would you support having armed guards and wands at the entrance to every public place such as a mall, restaurant, etc so that everybody gets checked before they enter(like they do in Israel for example). Trust me I've lived with it for long enough yes it keeps you safer and a suicide bomber couldn't get 30-40 people inside a mall that way but I'll take my freedom and my chances.

And the last point I want to make again is that incidents that happened in gun free zone or places with gun control had alot to do with the numbers. For instance more than 500 murders in Chicago alone. With NYC and LA it's over 1200. Just those 3 places alone.

That was not for you, as I was quoting Stay Woke.

That's not gun control in action. That's what happens when you have crime, poverty, and restrict people from protecting themselves.

[OriZ 3,157]

That's not gun control in action. That's what happens when you have crime, poverty, and restrict people from protecting themselves.

My gosh. You'll find an excuse for everything.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

My gosh. You'll find an excuse for everything.

Well, considering I've lived for 20 years in one of the most dangerous cities in the nation(STL), and 4 years right outside of another one(ESL), I might just have some experience when it comes to the subject.

If you want to dispel my statement, bring up some facts. Since you like numbers so much, find me a city that is considered poor but has very little crime.

[OriZ 3,157]

Well, considering I've lived for 20 years in one of the most dangerous cities in the nation(STL), and 4 years right outside of another one(ESL), I might just have some experience when it comes to the subject.

If you want to dispel my statement, bring up some facts. Since you like numbers so much, find me a city that is considered poor but has very little crime.

I'd rather debate this with my cat. She makes alot more sense than you do.

Seriously, so offended by generalizing, but then says that places that have gun control and high crime are that way because there's "crime(? duh?), poverty, and restrict people from protecting themselves(?!?!?! isn't that what gun control is all about?), then goes on to basically say a poor city will have high crime. Talk about generalizing.

NYC is poor? LA is poor? What the hell are you talking about?

Why do I even keep wasting my time on someone who speaks so incoherently - but then if I go debate this with my cat instead cause I'm tired of it - claims they "won"(what is this, kindergarten?)

OMG you lived in such dangerous cities! My wife is from Milwaukee so save it.

Let me tell you something. Facts and numbers and stats, they have no agenda. You obviously do.

Edited November 18, 2015 by OriZ

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

I'd rather debate this with my cat. She makes alot more sense than you do.

Seriously, so offended by generalizing, but then says that places that have gun control and high crime are that way because there's "crime(? duh?), poverty, and restrict people from protecting themselves(?!?!?! isn't that what gun control is all about?), then goes on to basically say a poor city will have high crime. Talk about generalizing.

NYC is poor? LA is poor? What the hell are you talking about?

Why do I even keep wasting my time on someone who speaks so incoherently - but then if I go debate this with my cat instead cause I'm tired of it - claims they "won"(what is this, kindergarten?)

OMG you lived in such dangerous cities! My wife is from Milwaukee so save it.

Let me tell you something. Facts and numbers and stats, they have no agenda. You obviously do.

Then put them up Ortiz. You do a whole lot of talking, with very little substance to back it up. Show me a city that is poor, but has no gun crime and strict gun laws. Then you can argue that gun control is killing people.

Milwaukee is rated 10 on the top ten list of dangerous. My city is ranked number one. So I will not save it.

http://www.parenting.com/family-time/home/top-10-most-dangerous-cities-america-2014?page=1

Look at the places in NYC andLA that get hit. Oakland's poor minority neighborhoods are getting hit (it's also on the list) and NYC is talking about the 5 boroughs, not Times Square.

While progress has been made in reducing the city's historically high property crime rate, violent crime has remained a persistent problem in Oakland, primarily concentrated in certain poor minority neighborhoods.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_New_York_City#In_certain_locations

Your move or you can have a seat and leave the rough stuff to me.

[TBoneTX 46,367]

Some unbecoming posts have been removed. C'mon, guys.

[Darnell 8,479]

Obama is not the King of Europe. Well, at least, not yet.

This topic is about guns and Europe. To use the 'O' word just cheapens and sullies the topic.

Maybe Obama should tell them to quit clinging to thier guns and religion

[Darnell 8,479]

Seems topical though, if'n a terrorist group is trying to repeat a historical event.

It was also Friday 13th, world kindness day, and the feast of St. Homobonus, among other things.

I'm not sure if any of that matter's to terrorists. Obviously the timing was about looking for mass casualties. I doubt all the events going on in Paris that day had anything to do with what lunar month it was.

[Dakine10 5,452]

Seems topical though, if'n a terrorist group is trying to repeat a historical event.

They're are terrorists, not theologians. Their goal is to kill as many people they can as brutally as possible and draw us much attention to themselves as they can.

The symbolism of Lunar month - I doubt it's high up on their to do list.

[Dakine10 5,452]

Some unbecoming posts have been removed. C'mon, guys.

My pie chart was very becoming.