I say Good On Them!

[GandD 5,966]

The problem with world leaders. They can't even come to a compromise on dinner.

It should never be a surprise when they cant accomplish anything on real issues.

[Expat1 971]

I wonder how that works with official state visits. Serving alcohol with Islamic guests present is problematic, to say the least. It's not just a matter of not consuming, but they are not even supposed to sit at a table where alcohol is served.

That's not actually true. There is a rule about consuming it, no rule about the presence of it.

[Dakine10 5,452]

That's not actually true. There is a rule about consuming it, no rule about the presence of it.

According to the Quran, it is Haram to eat at a table where alcohol is being consumed. As you have already noted, there are countries who use that as the book of law (to various degrees).

So there definitely are rules about being in the presence of it. As I said, I am not sure how widely they are observed.

[Póg mo 1,749]

I wonder how that works with official state visits. Serving alcohol with Islamic guests present is problematic, to say the least. It's not just a matter of not consuming, but they are not even supposed to sit at a table where alcohol is served.

You would think there would be existing protocol. I would disagree with the article saying Iran's president snubbed France. Seems to be the other way around. Why hold a dinner for someone who can't possibly attend?

The Saudi's have a law that allows Saudi royals to drink alcohol while attending foreign dinners. There was a Saudi prince allegedly busted with 25 boxes of amphetamines (worth around 190 million britit pounds) on his private jet, flying out of Beirut, but don't fret, I bet he won't see the inside of a prison, let alone have his head removed from his shoulders.

[Dakine10 5,452]

The Saudi's have a law that allows Saudi royals to drink alcohol while attending foreign dinners. There was a Saudi prince allegedly busted with 25 boxes of amphetamines (worth around 190 million britit pounds) on his private jet, flying out of Beirut, but don't fret, I bet he won't see the inside of a prison, let alone have his head removed from his shoulders.

I suppose the Saudi's leaders may not have an issue with wine being served then. That would be more relevant if they were attending the state visit.

Iran 's president is elected and has to answer to the supreme leader and adhere to the constitution of the Islamic Republic. Probably less likely to push his luck than a Saudi prince.

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

The Saudi's have a law that allows Saudi royals to drink alcohol while attending foreign dinners. There was a Saudi prince allegedly busted with 25 boxes of amphetamines (worth around 190 million britit pounds) on his private jet, flying out of Beirut, but don't fret, I bet he won't see the inside of a prison, let alone have his head removed from his shoulders.

What about strange customs in china. Why are you singling out Islamic countries.

[OriZ 3,157]

No, the customs of the country being visited are more important than the customs of the visitor. Any guest should know that. They don't have to drink it. Dig really hard and you'll prob find illegal alcohol in lots of places in Iran. Including state owned property.

This is why I don't get all bent out of shape when our president bows to another leader. It's a respect for the culture you're visiting. Part of leaving your home is accepting the world. Can't do it? Stay home.

Exactly.

We have some vegetarian friends. We make them a separate dish because we want them to have something good to eat. Then the rest of us eat whatever my wife decides to cook. Like I said, they don't have to drink the wine but they shouldn't make that choice for others.

I'm not 100% vegetarian and not out of ideology but eat very little meat. Normally as long as there IS stuff I do eat I have no problem in similar situations. Just because there's wine at the table, just because there's meat at the table, doesn't mean you have to consume it.

Generally there is a level of compromise i would think, and it depends on the countries. Do you think they would invite Netanyahu to the White House and serve pork? I think they would try to be accommodating and have some Kosher options, and I don't think being accommodating is considered bending over backwards.

That said, I think in the article in question, the compromise would be relatively simple. If they are both being stubborn just to make issue, what's the point having a state function anyway. Hollande can go one meal without wine, and Rouhani can request a separate table. Otherwise it starts out as more of a bad will visit for both sides.

I don't know what's on the menu when Netanyahu is there although would be interesting to find out. That being said, if they DID serve pork I would see no problem with that either, as long as they served other things he COULD eat. And if it was me in his place I definitely would not throw a fit. Just like when I go to my wife's family's functions and they serve non kosher food or alot of meat I have no issue. Mind you I don't practice so kosher doesn't matter to me anyway(I actually love my wife's pork chops) but that's besides the point.

[Expat1 971]

According to the Quran, it is Haram to eat at a table where alcohol is being consumed. As you have already noted, there are countries who use that as the book of law (to various degrees).

So there definitely are rules about being in the presence of it. As I said, I am not sure how widely they are observed.

Is it.

Since it's there, you should have no problem copying and pasting the Surah for us.

Only a a couple references to alcohol:

Surat Al-Ma'idah [5:90] says: "O you who have believed, indeed, intoxicants, gambling, [sacrificing on] stone alters [to other than Allah ], and divining arrows are but defilement from the work of Satan, so avoid it that you may be successful."

I don't see anything about tables do you?

There is a Surah forbidding prayer while intoxicated, that doesn't say anything about tables either.

Methinks you are making stuff up. In Islam, that's called "Bidah", making up doctrines.

Lots of teachings on that.

Ali ibn Abu Talib, of the Rashidun (rightly guided Caliphs), said; "He who innovates or gives protection to an innovator, there is a curse of Allah and that of His angels and that of the whole humanity upon him." `Abd Allah ibn `Umar said: "Every innovation is misguidance, even if the people see it as something good."

Making stuff up like that here gets you lashes. Next.

Edited November 11, 2015 by Expat1

[Expat1 971]

The Saudi's have a law that allows Saudi royals to drink alcohol while attending foreign dinners. There was a Saudi prince allegedly busted with 25 boxes of amphetamines (worth around 190 million britit pounds) on his private jet, flying out of Beirut, but don't fret, I bet he won't see the inside of a prison, let alone have his head removed from his shoulders.

Lebanon doesn't impose the death penalty for trafficking.

He's going away though. I think the Royal Family hung him out for embarrassing the KSA

[Póg mo 1,749]

What about strange customs in china. Why are you singling out Islamic countries.

No, what Saudi practices is a kind of cult, created in the nineteenth century, and should not be confused with Islam IMO.

[Expat1 971]

According to the Quran, it is Haram to eat at a table where alcohol is being consumed. As you have already noted, there are countries who use that as the book of law (to various degrees).

So there definitely are rules about being in the presence of it. As I said, I am not sure how widely they are observed.

Here ya go I'll help you. Which one?

1. They ask thee concerning wine and gambling. Say: "In them is great sin, and some profit, for men; but the sin is greater than the profit." (Al-Baqara; 2:219)

2. And from the fruit of the date palm and the vine, ye get out wholesome drink and food: behold, in this also is a sign for those who are wise. (An-Nahl; 16:67)

3. O ye who believe! Approach not prayers with a mind befogged, until ye can understand all that ye say…. (An-Nisa; 4:43)

4. O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination, Of Satan’s handiwork: Eschew such (abomination) that ye may prosper. (Al Maeda; 5:90)

5. Satan’s plan is (but) to excite enmity and hatred between you, with intoxicants and gambling, and hinder you from the remembrance of God, and from prayer: Will ye not then refrain? (Al-Maeda; 5:91)

[GandD 5,966]

FTR, I know Christians that will not eat at restaurants that serve alcohol.

[Teddy B 17,252]

FTR, I know Christians that will not eat at restaurants that serve alcohol.

Nothin better than bible belt lunacy.

[JohnR! 5,495]

Which really doesn't make any sense at all, since the JC himself, allegedly, was a fan of wine, to the extent of making some out of plain water.

Can you get any more ##### up than that?

FTR, I know Christians that will not eat at restaurants that serve alcohol.

[Expat1 971]

FTR, I know Christians that will not eat at restaurants that serve alcohol.

Bible doesn't prohibit alcohol either. Im sure Jesus wouldn't have turned water into wine if it did.