Does any dv winner have second thoughts...

[BigDaddy28 228]

wow. How's that even possible...? That's an insane amount of money for such a short period of time. How many hours do you have to work for 100K if I may ask?

Dont get me wrong I have to work my rear off lol. I have to work between 40 to 60 hours as a driver. By department of transportation, we can't work more than 60 hours a week. But if you work get that much money, you can provide a nice life for you and your family.

[Alex Ve 5]

What is her reasoning for not compromising with you on this?

I lived in NYC 10 years,loved, just moved to Connecticut (1.20 min from NYC). I can't see myself living in any other place on earth.
I have great friends here. Every time I go to visit my family in Brazil I count the minutes to return to the USA.Why your gf doesn't want to move to the USA? I hope she has an amazing job in your Country,because love does not pay bills, specially after having kids. If you decide to move to NYC send me a message, I can introduce you a bunch of friends in NYC. Tomorrow for example we will have in one of my friend's house a pajama party and the girls from NYC are coming over, they are from Ukraine,Brazil and Phillipines,as you see we find time to enjoy life here too.

Thanks Sandranj. Yes, sure I'll drop you a message.

For those who ask why she doesn't want to move to another country it's because she loves Greece, her family provides for her financial needs and also because she is divorced with a child, she receives a large amount of money from her ex husband.

Realistically, we wouldn't have a future together like say getting married cause our families are not supportive of our age difference (she is 7 older than me) and our social status. Greek families are somewhat conservative thinking and have certain expectations for mariage.

It's just that we were having a great time and I wish I received the GC a couple years later instead of so soon.

There are people who 100% wants to come to live in the US because that's where the one they love is (my husband in the Philippines). They have their life planned in moving to the states but have to wait.

So if you're not 100% then don't come. Your partner wants to stay in Greece (?) and you love her. So don't let her be the one who gets away.

I wish you all the best and happiness.

Yeah, if your partner is waiting for you there or wants to come with you then it's easier to make the move. You got a motivation.

Do you have a trade? do you have a degree? What type of employment do you have now? You have regular employment in Greece, you have found love, why throw it all away just to live in a different country?

I have a degree in graphic design. I work as a graphic designer part time. Sadly, many jobs that I search in NYC require a bachelors degree in graphic design. And those few who don't, pay less money.

Imagine if you were on your deathbed... which would you regret more? Not moving to the US? Or losing this love in your life?

No matter what you decide you're going to be giving up something, you just have to decide which one you can cope more with losing.

Weigh the pros and cons. Decide which is better for you and your life and your emotional happiness as well as your stability. Life is a gamble no matter what you do, so just make sure you take the time to truly decide whether you're placing the right bets. No matter what you decide, try not to be so hard on yourself. Yes, a lot of people would love to be in your position with the DV lotttery but you are not them and you shouldn't let other people shame you because of your unforseen conflicting feelings. Not taking the GC opportunity doesn't make you ungrateful and taking it doesn't make you selfish, either. You have to do what's right for you, because at the end of the day, you're the one who your decisions truly effect.

Thanks. This is a great analysis the way you put it.

Edited November 7, 2015 by Alex Ve

[SusieQQQ 11,586]

For those who ask why she doesn't want to move to another country it's because she loves Greece, her family provides for her financial needs and also because she is divorced with a child, she receives a large amount of money from her ex husband.

...

Yeah, if your partner is waiting for you there or wants to come with you then it's easier to make the move. You got a motivation.

Whoa dude. So the main reason she doesn't want to leave is because everyone else pays for her if she's there? That puts quite a different spin on things, in my mind.

Good luck with your decision. Think hard about answering the questions about what you'll regret more years down the line.

[Boggy1974 124]

_{OP, you seem to have a good life and love in Greece. Please stay there!}

[EmilyW 1,434]

Just to play devil's advocate, she doesn't want to leave because she has everything handed to her on a plate? Parents who pay for her. An ex who pays for her. I'm glad she's thinking about her needs and how she can prolong her easy life, but has she bothered to think about yours?

You have a year after you activate to move. I would think carefully about your future. If it isn't realistic for you two to be together, then think carefully about sacrificing your future for a present that has an expiry date on it.

You seem like a kind person. Whatever you decide, don't lose that. :-)

Edited November 7, 2015 by EmilyW

[Alex Ve 5]

Whoa dude. So the main reason she doesn't want to leave is because everyone else pays for her if she's there? That puts quite a different spin on things, in my mind.

Good luck with your decision. Think hard about answering the questions about what you'll regret more years down the line.

Yep...you're right, it does put a different spin.

Just to play devil's advocate, she doesn't want to leave because she has everything handed to her on a plate? Parents who pay for her. An ex who pays for her. I'm glad she's thinking about her needs and how she can prolong her easy life, but has she bothered to think about yours?

You have a year after you activate to move. I would think carefully about your future. If it isn't realistic for you two to be together, then think carefully about sacrificing your future for a present that has an expiry date on it.

You seem like a kind person. Whatever you decide, don't lose that. :-)

Yeah, I fully understand this. It's just that I hoped we got more time here together before getting the GC. But then again, maybe it would be even more difficult for us to separate if we got closer.

Thanks for your kind words Emily.

I see you re from Australia. Before I applied for the DV lottery, I paid 500 euros to a person I knew and he promised me that he has connections to find me a job in Australia and issue a work permission visa, but later I found out it was just a scam...I was so saddened by this. I wanted so much to live and work in Australia even if all of my family relatives are in NYC.

Edited November 7, 2015 by Alex Ve

[EmilyW 1,434]

Don't pay anyone any money for visas, mate. Message Aussies (plenty on this board) and we will help you out. For free.

[Alex Ve 5]

I'm really curious, I'd like to ask the posters that are from Sweden, Netherlands and Australia what made them want to leave their respective countries and move to the US?

I had the impression that those countries are very privileged and provide a great quality of life to their citizens. I mean, have those countries ever experienced any sort of crisis whatsoever?

Compared to the US they have good salaries, access to health care, low crime rates etc.

Edited November 7, 2015 by Alex Ve

[acgmph 42]

I'm really curious, I'd like to ask the posters that are from Sweden, Netherlands and Australia what made them want to leave their respective countries and move to the US?

I had the impression that those countries are very privileged and provide a great quality of life to their citizens. I mean, have those countries ever experienced any sort of crisis whatsoever?

Compared to the US they have good salaries, access to health care, low crime rates etc.

You say that The Netherlands has good salaries, access to healthcare and low crime rates. Let me break it down for you:

- Good salaries: that's relative. See below where I talk about tax rates and housing. You're left with nothing at the end of the month when all is paid for.

- Access to healthcare: you still have to pay for it, just like in the US. After Obamacare, access to healthcare is no longer an issue. Yes, it's 3 times as expensive in the US, but I don't mind, as I know the medical service quality is better in the US than in The Netherlands.

- low crime rates: sure, that's true. In the US it depends where you live. It is a BIG country. You know how big it is? Bigger than the whole of EU. One country. Bigger than the EU. Puts things in perspective, doesn't it? You hear about Philadelphia (aka Killadelphia) that has high crime rates. I have never felt unsafe here. Never! And my wife goes to school in Chester (no. 5 crime rate in the country) and works in North Philly (also high crime rates). People are generally genuine and nice. High crime because high unemployment and low education. But things are improving.

Here are my reasons to leave Europe in general, and Holland in particular:

- aside for meeting my wife (who's American) there and after we both decided that The Netherlands is not for us, we moved to the US.

- My expertise and experience earned me a decent salary in Holland (think between 70 and 90,000 Euros per year brutto)

- But I was paying A LOT of taxes - the highest tax bracket is 52%!!! which is insane!

- And what was I getting back for those taxes? Nothing... Because I still have to pay medical insurance by myself, rent and house prices are insane and not justifiable so you cannot get affordable housing, unless you have a partner that earns some money, otherwise you are forced to live in a very small and cramped one room type of place. Or even in a container or small boat house. Also food is expensive and has no taste at local supermarkets - if you want taste you have to pay insane prices for imported food, because Dutch food sucks (especially locally produced legumes)

- Small country - only 17m people and in one hour from Amsterdam I can be in another country, with a different language and culture. Yes, that's cool as a tourist, but not if you want to have a larger market place for your business. Everything is hyper-localized.

- Social tensions: there is a lot of racism in The Netherlands. I know... your opinion is different because you hear the Dutch are all so nice to foreigners and people of color, but it is not true. If you are not Dutch, then we hate you, because you come here and steal our jobs and we have to pay for your country because it sucks. Segregation is just as bad as in the US South. Black immigrants do lower paying jobs. Even if you're 2nd generation, you're still an alochton... Oh, and on top of that, we have a ton of Syrian immigrants coming our way, to put more pressure on the workforce and drive down salaries so that companies make even more money... insane...

- Not to mention the fiscal paradise that Holland is, with PO box companies that have no lucrative business in the country, but get tons of tax breaks. This screws up the regular folk who in turn pay more taxes for those companies to get benefits and tax breaks. Some of these companies pay 7% tax... while I was paying 52%... see the difference?

- work culture sucks, with employees busting the door open at 5:00 and no-one is left in the office past 5:01. Nobody takes any responsibility for their work and is a general laissez-fair when it comes to work. They do it because they have to, but there is no drive an motivation. I am the opposite of that, so I could not make it work for me

- entrepreneurship is frowned upon. Everyone and their sister tells you how many risks you are taking if you start working for yourself, or God forbid!, open a business

- did I mention the insane tax rates? Also, if you open a business you have to pay higher taxes than those PO box companies. Yes, it's fair... isn't it?

- society wants you to be average. Because otherwise they might have to get up and do more. And no-one wants to do more. No-one wants to do anything in that country...

If you have a minimum income type-job and you like a government that is smothering you and makes sure you don't have to do anything special to live (like working), and you have no desire to make something for yourself, if you want to be just average, then Holland is for you. If you want to succeed and be more than just average, then look somewhere else. Societies like The Netherlands will fail if they don't change.

Don't get me wrong, there are a tons of good things about Holland: like scientific research and such, Duchies are very good with building anything on and around water, architecture, etc. But those things alone do not make me want to live there.

There are so many more reasons that I could go on forever about. The bottom line is, it didn't suit me nor my wife. I know the US isn't perfect, but god-dammit, if you do work hard, and have a little bit of luck, you're going to make it. I know the general consensus is that is no longer the case, but I do believe in it! So now my wife is doing her PhD and I am waiting for my EAD so I can start working! While writing this I received all my AOS NOA1s in the mail

As per your situation... even though I should be PC and not say this, I hate being PC so I will say it regardless: If I were you I would move to the US. Your girlfriends sounds just like those people that I was talking about - wants to be taken care of and not want to be too much outside of her comfort zone. I would rather do a minimum wage job in a rich country where there is a strong work culture and you can progress and earn more and more as you go up the ladder, than a minimum wage country in a bankrupt country with political instability that changes it's government like I change my socks. Also, greeks are known for not being very hard working and also not very fond of paying taxes either. If that's you, then better stay in Greece, you will not make it in the US.

[Alex Ve 5]

You say that The Netherlands has good salaries, access to healthcare and low crime rates. Let me break it down for you:

- Good salaries: that's relative. See below where I talk about tax rates and housing. You're left with nothing at the end of the month when all is paid for.

- Access to healthcare: you still have to pay for it, just like in the US. After Obamacare, access to healthcare is no longer an issue. Yes, it's 3 times as expensive in the US, but I don't mind, as I know the medical service quality is better in the US than in The Netherlands.

- low crime rates: sure, that's true. In the US it depends where you live. It is a BIG country. You know how big it is? Bigger than the whole of EU. One country. Bigger than the EU. Puts things in perspective, doesn't it? You hear about Philadelphia (aka Killadelphia) that has high crime rates. I have never felt unsafe here. Never! And my wife goes to school in Chester (no. 5 crime rate in the country) and works in North Philly (also high crime rates). People are generally genuine and nice. High crime because high unemployment and low education. But things are improving.

Here are my reasons to leave Europe in general, and Holland in particular:

- aside for meeting my wife (who's American) there and after we both decided that The Netherlands is not for us, we moved to the US.

- My expertise and experience earned me a decent salary in Holland (think between 70 and 90,000 Euros per year brutto)

- But I was paying A LOT of taxes - the highest tax bracket is 52%!!! which is insane!

- And what was I getting back for those taxes? Nothing... Because I still have to pay medical insurance by myself, rent and house prices are insane and not justifiable so you cannot get affordable housing, unless you have a partner that earns some money, otherwise you are forced to live in a very small and cramped one room type of place. Or even in a container or small boat house. Also food is expensive and has no taste at local supermarkets - if you want taste you have to pay insane prices for imported food, because Dutch food sucks (especially locally produced legumes)

- Small country - only 17m people and in one hour from Amsterdam I can be in another country, with a different language and culture. Yes, that's cool as a tourist, but not if you want to have a larger market place for your business. Everything is hyper-localized.

- Social tensions: there is a lot of racism in The Netherlands. I know... your opinion is different because you hear the Dutch are all so nice to foreigners and people of color, but it is not true. If you are not Dutch, then we hate you, because you come here and steal our jobs and we have to pay for your country because it sucks. Segregation is just as bad as in the US South. Black immigrants do lower paying jobs. Even if you're 2nd generation, you're still an alochton... Oh, and on top of that, we have a ton of Syrian immigrants coming our way, to put more pressure on the workforce and drive down salaries so that companies make even more money... insane...

- Not to mention the fiscal paradise that Holland is, with PO box companies that have no lucrative business in the country, but get tons of tax breaks. This screws up the regular folk who in turn pay more taxes for those companies to get benefits and tax breaks. Some of these companies pay 7% tax... while I was paying 52%... see the difference?

- work culture sucks, with employees busting the door open at 5:00 and no-one is left in the office past 5:01. Nobody takes any responsibility for their work and is a general laissez-fair when it comes to work. They do it because they have to, but there is no drive an motivation. I am the opposite of that, so I could not make it work for me

- entrepreneurship is frowned upon. Everyone and their sister tells you how many risks you are taking if you start working for yourself, or God forbid!, open a business

- did I mention the insane tax rates? Also, if you open a business you have to pay higher taxes than those PO box companies. Yes, it's fair... isn't it?

- society wants you to be average. Because otherwise they might have to get up and do more. And no-one wants to do more. No-one wants to do anything in that country...

If you have a minimum income type-job and you like a government that is smothering you and makes sure you don't have to do anything special to live (like working), and you have no desire to make something for yourself, if you want to be just average, then Holland is for you. If you want to succeed and be more than just average, then look somewhere else. Societies like The Netherlands will fail if they don't change.

Don't get me wrong, there are a tons of good things about Holland: like scientific research and such, Duchies are very good with building anything on and around water, architecture, etc. But those things alone do not make me want to live there.

There are so many more reasons that I could go on forever about. The bottom line is, it didn't suit me nor my wife. I know the US isn't perfect, but god-dammit, if you do work hard, and have a little bit of luck, you're going to make it. I know the general consensus is that is no longer the case, but I do believe in it! So now my wife is doing her PhD and I am waiting for my EAD so I can start working! While writing this I received all my AOS NOA1s in the mail

As per your situation... even though I should be PC and not say this, I hate being PC so I will say it regardless: If I were you I would move to the US. Your girlfriends sounds just like those people that I was talking about - wants to be taken care of and not want to be too much outside of her comfort zone. I would rather do a minimum wage job in a rich country where there is a strong work culture and you can progress and earn more and more as you go up the ladder, than a minimum wage country in a bankrupt country with political instability that changes it's government like I change my socks. Also, greeks are known for not being very hard working and also not very fond of paying taxes either. If that's you, then better stay in Greece, you will not make it in the US.

Thanks a lot. Your post was very eye opening. Most of the greeks that I know consider Netherlands and Sweden to be paradise.

I guess you 'll never truly know a country if you don't live there and work.

I do not agree on your last comment as I think generalisation of a whole population is wrong. The greeks that don't pay their taxes are people that simply cannot afford to do so. And many families do two or three jobs to survive. After all there are many examples of greeks that have build a successful career in the US, open business etc. All a result of hard work.

Well, in the position I am right now and the pressure my family puts upon me, I cannot do anything else than come get my GC and try to get a decent job. If I don't like it there I'll simply return and say at least I tried...

[EmilyW 1,434]

Why I'm moving to the US...?

a) Adventure. Pure and simple. I get one life. Do I want to spend that living and working as a wage slave in one country or do I want to truly live life and explore. I don't want to get to 80 and think 'If only'. I want to get to 80 and think 'Remember when'.

b) I pay alot of taxes here in Australia. Not dissimilar to acgmph, I pay close to 50% of my wages in tax. I then get slugged for special taxes. And we have a cultural movement here in Australia that says I ought to be slugged even more because I am considered one of the 'rich'. Like my near six figure tax bill isn't enough. They now want more. And think it's ok to abuse me for working hard to get the wage I get because somehow, it just landed it my lap and I ought to give it to people who don't work because they deserve it more.

c) Housing affordability is appalling in the big cities. We bought when the market was under control somewhat. Our house has tripled in value since we bought it seven years ago. If we were wanting to buy into the housing market now, we would not be able to afford it.

d) Love for the US. We're not stupid. We know the US isn't perfect. No country is. The trade-offs we make moving to the US are offset by the advantages. Lower tax breaks that reward people who work hard being one. Cheaper cost of living than in Australia.

With all due respect, Alex, if all those Greeks worked three jobs, then Greece wouldn't be in the situation it is in. It had a grand plan of a society that balanced work and home and - IMO - they got the balance wrong. Early retirement, generous pensions, a massive civil service.... all of it was unsustainable but, by the time the leaders figured out it was unsustainable, it was part of Greek society and part of the cultural fabric. Your partner, with all due respect to her, is reflective of that. She is financially supported by anyone but herself. And she likes it that way. She isn't working three jobs. Others are to keep her afloat. Until Greece resolves that issue - and I think it's cultural more than financial - it won't dig itself out of the hole it has found itself in.

[acgmph 42]

Thanks a lot. Your post was very eye opening. Most of the greeks that I know consider Netherlands and Sweden to be paradise.

I guess you 'll never truly know a country if you don't live there and work.

I do not agree on your last comment as I think generalisation of a whole population is wrong. The greeks that don't pay their taxes are people that simply cannot afford to do so. And many families do two or three jobs to survive. After all there are many examples of greeks that have build a successful career in the US, open business etc. All a result of hard work.

Well, in the position I am right now and the pressure my family puts upon me, I cannot do anything else than come get my GC and try to get a decent job. If I don't like it there I'll simply return and say at least I tried...

I was merely saying what the world thinks of the greeks. Just as the world thinks The Netherlands and Sweden is paradise. Generalizing is what people do

[Teresakay 1]

Hie, I am in the same boat as you.I am leaving for the States in January and I have a wonderful boyfriend who is staying behind.We are hoping to eventually make a plan for him to follow.My decision although hard was based on this ~ My country is facing a major economic downturn I am employed as an attorney and make a reasonable salary but it is not enough to plan for the future or obtain any assets my boyfriend is a computer programmer and he also makes a reasonable outcome.If i stay and we get married and pool together our incomes it will just be enough to get by , throw in kids into the mix and we will most likely begin to struggle and wont be able to even dream of saving to buy a house or a car.

Staying will only make me happy for a few months but the reality of what i gave up will perpetually haunt me everytime Im short of money or when the economy in my country keeps sliding backwards and i will begin to resent my boyfriend for what I gave up which will be unfair.I decided to take a chance becz i know by staying the chances of making it are slim because of the economy and these are powers beyond my control i want a chance to make it using powers within my control and i believe the u.s can give me that and IF it does not work out i could always come back home its not like once you go to the States you are barred from returning to your home.

You know your situation better for me my country is too bleak to think about staying.And if what you have with this girl is real love like what i have then you will conquer the distance and find a way to be together.

[SusieQQQ 11,586]

Hie, I am in the same boat as you.I am leaving for the States in January and I have a wonderful boyfriend who is staying behind.We are hoping to eventually make a plan for him to follow.My decision although hard was based on this ~ My country is facing a major economic downturn I am employed as an attorney and make a reasonable salary but it is not enough to plan for the future or obtain any assets my boyfriend is a computer programmer and he also makes a reasonable outcome.If i stay and we get married and pool together our incomes it will just be enough to get by , throw in kids into the mix and we will most likely begin to struggle and wont be able to even dream of saving to buy a house or a car.

Staying will only make me happy for a few months but the reality of what i gave up will perpetually haunt me everytime Im short of money or when the economy in my country keeps sliding backwards and i will begin to resent my boyfriend for what I gave up which will be unfair.I decided to take a chance becz i know by staying the chances of making it are slim because of the economy and these are powers beyond my control i want a chance to make it using powers within my control and i believe the u.s can give me that and IF it does not work out i could always come back home its not like once you go to the States you are barred from returning to your home.

You know your situation better for me my country is too bleak to think about staying.And if what you have with this girl is real love like what i have then you will conquer the distance and find a way to be together.

I feel such sadness for what has happened to your beautiful country. Good luck in the US, and I hope it all works out well for you,and for Zim too.

[NickandAngi 8]

Hi Alex,

I'm Greek and was born and raised in Zimbabwe. When my family made the decision to leave Zimbabwe and return to Greece, I was 21. We left everything behind and it hurt like mad. It seemed almost impossible to move forward and create a new life. I left behind someone that I loved very very much and I thought I would never find that love again (only I did and it's so much better). Greece is not somewhere I could settle though and very promptly made my way to England where London became my home for the next 13 years. And finally, I moved to the US to be with my husband and I wouldn't change a thing.

So many Greeks are leaving and trying to make a new life for themselves and their future. Consider your options of staying with your love, getting married, having a family and then not having enough to make ends meet. Enter the mediterranean temperament and the endless arguments which will no doubt erode something of your foundation. Would you regret your decision not to move then? You are so privileged to be giving this opportunity so many others would love.

Here is something for you to consider. Try it.... Just travel to the US and give it a chance. It's not the land of milk and honey. You won't land with your bum in butter, you'll have to work but the opportunities that will be afforded to you will be vast. Then have your lady come and visit - she may very well like it here and change her mind. And at the end of the day - if you absolutely hate it and find you can't live without her, you can always go back.

At the end of the day this is your decision to make, just offering a different perspective.

Hi Alex,

I'm Greek and was born and raised in Zimbabwe. When my family made the decision to leave Zimbabwe and return to Greece, I was 21. We left everything behind and it hurt like mad. It seemed almost impossible to move forward and create a new life. I left behind someone that I loved very very much and I thought I would never find that love again (only I did and it's so much better). Greece is not somewhere I could settle though and very promptly made my way to England where London became my home for the next 13 years. And finally, I moved to the US to be with my husband and I wouldn't change a thing.

So many Greeks are leaving and trying to make a new life for themselves and their future. Consider your options of staying with your love, getting married, having a family and then not having enough to make ends meet. Enter the mediterranean temperament and the endless arguments which will no doubt erode something of your foundation. Would you regret your decision not to move then? You are so privileged to be giving this opportunity so many others would love.

Here is something for you to consider. Try it.... Just travel to the US and give it a chance. It's not the land of milk and honey. You won't land with your bum in butter, you'll have to work but the opportunities that will be afforded to you will be vast. Then have your lady come and visit - she may very well like it here and change her mind. And at the end of the day - if you absolutely hate it and find you can't live without her, you can always go back.

At the end of the day this is your decision to make, just offering a different perspective.