Culture shock / adjusting

[heo luoi 206]

I dont get this machismo stuff at all. I'm a man and I cook/clean and everything. Another poster said her cuban husband made a crazy effort to help around the house while he was waiting.

IF we want to get gender stereotype, this guy needs a serious beat down by a man then.

He needs to grow up and show some maturity regardless of where the hell he came from.

A MAN treats his wife well and doesnt act like a little kid (boy or girl). Maybe if the OP didnt cook / clean up after him we'll see what happens. If he doesnt want to be here or god forbid TRY? I'm sure theres 100,000 Syrians that would gladly take his ungrateful place.

I also don't get why people think he's showboating to his crew at home? All he does is whine how horrible everything is, what is so MANLY about that? hes bragging how miserable his is? Thats macho?

OP, I am so sorry to hear about what you're going through! Thank you for opening up; this thread has been an amazing read though - as many of us are going through the transition. Yes, the times are hard, and I'm sure most of the "significant others" coming to US are homesick. You're in a new country, have no job, aren't even allowed to work, may not know the language well... it is scary, and hard, and a huge stress alltogether. As a first-generation immigrant, I still remember that feeling of not wanting to even wander out of the house.

However, having said all that - there is a fine line and a difference between being sad, upset, homesick, unsure etc - and dumping those feelings on your partner in an aggressive or passive-aggressive manner.

Him coming to US was his decision. Him staying in US is his decision. You are not responsible for making him happy every single day of his life. His well-being is first and foremost his responsibility. Of course, we are all supportive of our loved ones, we want our loved ones to be happy and it's natural to try and help them on the way: buy warm clothes, take them out into a restaurant, cheer them up or commiserate even sometimes, be emotionally supportive, "I feel your pain" kind of thing. But at the end if he does not want to be happy here, he just won't be.

So: don't marry him unless he can say with confidence he wants to stay in US, he wants to try to succeed here, he wants to spend his life here. He must own this decision before you tie the knot. It is his decision to make. Otherwise you could spend your entire life and not hear the end of it, how he left everything behind for you and so you should be the one making it up to him.

Having said that, I know from experience that 1st year is the hardest. America's charms work their way on even most reluctant souls. Once you have a job, once you have to get out there every morning and interact with people, the cultural osmosis is inevitable. He will get used to living here. He will get more comfortable here. He will find if not friends, then acquaintances who will turn into friends, and he will see many ways in which living here is more comfortable then living on Cuba. He will have a chance to be happy here - with you! Help him not lose this chance by helping him face the reality and own it. He has made a decision to move here, he needs to start living here, not how he's still mentally living in Cuba neighborhood with friends.

p.s. Kudos to someone mentioning that he's a man unable to provide for his family right now, have a job, and/or own his "macho" role of the protector, provider, etc. It looks like by bad-mouthing everything in US he "scores points" with his friends at home, like "I'm so cool here, they are all idiots". But he needs to be scoring those points in US. The game's changed. He lives here. And it takes a whole lot of a different kind of courage to admit you have to start anew, and go all the way from the start: learn the language, get a job, get a new education of certificates, and start climbing the ladder all new again - but that's what is expected of him, that's how he needs to succeed, by facing these challenges.

p.p.s. I know he can't effectively work until you get married and receive the work authorization, but the best way to help is to figure out ways to keep him busy right now. English classes, or books, or any kind of house chores (best if those are ones you can't do, any of the "male" work), any kind of help for you parents or relatives - help him start scoring points here and be proud of any little thing that he does. Help him feel like a man. And don't hesitate to call out if he's throwing tantrums like a girl. (I hate gender-based manipulations myself, but sometimes they could be ever so effective...)

[BrendaBuzz 8]

OP, I am so sorry to hear about what you're going through! Thank you for opening up; this thread has been an amazing read though - as many of us are going through the transition. Yes, the times are hard, and I'm sure most of the "significant others" coming to US are homesick. You're in a new country, have no job, aren't even allowed to work, may not know the language well... it is scary, and hard, and a huge stress alltogether. As a first-generation immigrant, I still remember that feeling of not wanting to even wander out of the house.

However, having said all that - there is a fine line and a difference between being sad, upset, homesick, unsure etc - and dumping those feelings on your partner in an aggressive or passive-aggressive manner.

Him coming to US was his decision. Him staying in US is his decision. You are not responsible for making him happy every single day of his life. His well-being is first and foremost his responsibility. Of course, we are all supportive of our loved ones, we want our loved ones to be happy and it's natural to try and help them on the way: buy warm clothes, take them out into a restaurant, cheer them up or commiserate even sometimes, be emotionally supportive, "I feel your pain" kind of thing. But at the end if he does not want to be happy here, he just won't be.

So: don't marry him unless he can say with confidence he wants to stay in US, he wants to try to succeed here, he wants to spend his life here. He must own this decision before you tie the knot. It is his decision to make. Otherwise you could spend your entire life and not hear the end of it, how he left everything behind for you and so you should be the one making it up to him.

Having said that, I know from experience that 1st year is the hardest. America's charms work their way on even most reluctant souls. Once you have a job, once you have to get out there every morning and interact with people, the cultural osmosis is inevitable. He will get used to living here. He will get more comfortable here. He will find if not friends, then acquaintances who will turn into friends, and he will see many ways in which living here is more comfortable then living on Cuba. He will have a chance to be happy here - with you! Help him not lose this chance by helping him face the reality and own it. He has made a decision to move here, he needs to start living here, not how he's still mentally living in Cuba neighborhood with friends.

p.s. Kudos to someone mentioning that he's a man unable to provide for his family right now, have a job, and/or own his "macho" role of the protector, provider, etc. It looks like by bad-mouthing everything in US he "scores points" with his friends at home, like "I'm so cool here, they are all idiots". But he needs to be scoring those points in US. The game's changed. He lives here. And it takes a whole lot of a different kind of courage to admit you have to start anew, and go all the way from the start: learn the language, get a job, get a new education of certificates, and start climbing the ladder all new again - but that's what is expected of him, that's how he needs to succeed, by facing these challenges.

p.p.s. I know he can't effectively work until you get married and receive the work authorization, but the best way to help is to figure out ways to keep him busy right now. English classes, or books, or any kind of house chores (best if those are ones you can't do, any of the "male" work), any kind of help for you parents or relatives - help him start scoring points here and be proud of any little thing that he does. Help him feel like a man. And don't hesitate to call out if he's throwing tantrums like a girl. (I hate gender-based manipulations myself, but sometimes they could be ever so effective...)

Very well written! I also agree that the OP has opened up a very helpful topic.

[kittens_0117 5]

I'm sorry I'm going to sound really blunt here...

I agree with everyone above - it does not seem like he's meeting you halfway. He seems to have a confirmation bias of how America "sucks" so he is seeing everything in poop-colored glasses. I am the foreigner in my relationship, and I'm lucky I rarely felt homesick (I am not picky with food, and anything I miss from home I make myself), but spending half a day to video-chat with friends and publicly b*tch about everything in the US is crazy absurd. If at some point you want to take things further in your relationship, what is his expectation? You uprooting your life here and moving with him to Cuba for the rest of your life? Do you want that in your future? Because it seems like he doesn't want anything to do with America, and now you're giving him an inch and he's taking a mile.

Don't take me wrong, while America has been very good to me so far, I do know some aspects of America suck - but hey, that's life. I'm with my husband and we work through our likes and dislikes of each other's culture.

Continue to talk about it -- maybe he'll take more time to adjust, but keep in mind that it's not all about him, so I hope he starts growing up. You deserve some respect. Good luck.

Edited November 2, 2015 by kittens_0117

[BrendaBuzz 8]

I dont get this machismo stuff at all. I'm a man and I cook/clean and everything. Another poster said her cuban husband made a crazy effort to help around the house while he was waiting.

IF we want to get gender stereotype, this guy needs a serious beat down by a man then.

He needs to grow up and show some maturity regardless of where the hell he came from.

A MAN treats his wife well and doesnt act like a little kid (boy or girl). Maybe if the OP didnt cook / clean up after him we'll see what happens. If he doesnt want to be here or god forbid TRY? I'm sure theres 100,000 Syrians that would gladly take his ungrateful place.

I also don't get why people think he's showboating to his crew at home? All he does is whine how horrible everything is, what is so MANLY about that? hes bragging how miserable his is? Thats macho?

Re: Showboating: I think she means that by complaining about how the US is, he is in essence showing that the country and its standards are "below him", which can elevate the way his crew sees him (or at least he is hoping it will). I think it makes sense. People tend to dismiss and detract from people/things/situations in this manner when they feel a loss of control or if they are hurt. It is possible that he is doing this as a defense mechanism. It is possible he is doing this AND also just being mean and ill natured in general.

I DO agree with YOU though, that he is just out of line and needs to be checked. Many African and Latin men posting are trying to adjust to the states and they come from "macho" cultures. I beg oh! It's not okay to mistreat your fiance like this.

[heo luoi 206]

Im sorry I have no patience for people that are emotional by surprise or ignorance? nor do I think the OP should. Its like whining at tax time, being expensive...like you were surprised by it EVERY year.

He KNEW he was coming. He CHOSE to come. He's surprised its so different which gives him the right to be a jackhole? He's surprised Cuban food is not cooked as well as in Cuba. HOLY COW, you don't say?

Maybe the OP should talk to his friends and show them the deal and see how macho this clown gets. I bet 1/2 of them if they are big macho Cuban men would want to beat him down for treating her that way if they knew. If she wanted a bratty kid from Cuba, she could've just adopted one.

Hes a clown in public not just w/ his friends. Maybe if he was cut off from cuba he'd have no one to show boat to. I hope he has his touchdown celebration dance ready when the OP ships him on his (show)boat back to Cuba. Being the petitioner and knowing what thats like and hearing the strides shes tried this clown needs be a GROWN man, not just a 'man' and before marriage/AoS is pursued.

Edited November 2, 2015 by heo luoi

[Amhara 460]

He did not have many belongings. I have totally enabled all of this. I am not saying I am to blame, but am just admitting I have been an enabler. The part I have the most difficulty understanding is that when I am vocal about things, I get dismissed to not understanding Cuban people and Cuban culture.

This comment tells me that you are realistic, that you understand what is going on, and you have the strength to make the right decision for you - not him. When you got him the lobster, I was wondering if you were being a push-over, but you were trying to please him and make him happy. I think you were doing that and buying him his clothes to try to make him more comfortable.

I know I have read on an Afghan related site some guys complaining about living in the US and telling others not to come. I'm not totally patriotic, but it still bothers me to read that. Sure, rent in Afg can be only $200 compared to the $1,000+ here, but they forget how terrible the job market (if there is one...) is in Afg!!!!

When I read comments that say, "Don't come to America! I'm paying xx and xx and xx, and I'm only saving $200 or $100 each month! No, stay in Afg and enjoy", I'm just thinking, "Really?" Not only are they doing better than me with saving money, they are forgetting that they had no job in Afg - how much money can you save when you have no money??? It calms me down when I see the other guys posting that they are coming to US for their kids future because they don't want them around violence and at least in US they have a job.

Now, Cuba is much, much different than Afg, but I wonder why the khell are they saying these sorts of things, so I can nearly relate with your frustrations. You need to keep to your standards. A better man deserves the kind of love you can give - he will value you much more. A husband should care about his wife's feelings, not dictate to her.

From what you posted, you understand way more than he gives you credit for ($1,000 for a BMW...sure...). If he can't show you the respect that a man who cherishes his wife can, unfortunately, you know what you need to do. I'm sorry. And you know what? Any of your friends better keep their "I told you so" comments to themselves and sympathize with you. They need to support you, not be happy that "they were right" (which they really weren't!) or else they are not real friends.

Love from Dallas

[Ortolan 381]

Honey, you should not marry this person.

It would get a lot worse after you married him. He's not able or ready to be a husband. Help him get back to Cuba and then go on with your life.

[naire37 53]

Re: Showboating: I think she means that by complaining about how the US is, he is in essence showing that the country and its standards are "below him", which can elevate the way his crew sees him (or at least he is hoping it will). I think it makes sense. People tend to dismiss and detract from people/things/situationst in this manner when they feel a loss of control or if they are hurt. It is possible that he is doing this as a defense mechanism. It is possible he is doing this AND also just being mean and ill naured in general.

I DO agree with YOU though, that he is just out of line and needs to be checked. Many African and Latin men posting are trying to adjust to the states and they come from "macho" cultures. I beg oh! It's not okay to mistreat your fiance like this.

Yeah, something like that. I'm coming from a different culture (Russian), which prides itself on being street-smart, spiritual, deep etc, and in there there is a deep rooted notion "Americans are stupid" (don't even get me started...) Russians consider themselves to be more cunning, or more spiritual, or better - in contrast to "stupid Americans".

Off topic: likely, my man has come to US with open eyes and is in general very much bias-free, but I know he is an exception to the rule.

So, I'd see US-bashing by a man as "OMG they can't even cook here, what a bunch of losers" as a comparisson to "well, you and I know how the food should be prepared, we're better". That works as a defense mechanism as well, of course. Russian proverb says "sour grapes" (i.e. things decried because one cannot get them) - "it's bad food, I would not want it anyway". Bashing it takes the focus away from not being able to afford 86$ crabs on a daily basis.

Anyhow, my advice still stands. Get him to work. Or to do anything that requires effort, be it house chores, or learning English, or lawn mowing for your parents. He needs more real-life experiences of what it's like to live here, how people earn money, how hard this money comes. Even if it takes a little bit of dream-shattering, make him see the real picture (and not let him take it out on you when his ideal world of $1000 for a BMW (zomg) shatters). Only then, once he knows what he's getting into and if he's willing to play, decide whether you want to support him and be with him or not. I really don't think you should be getting married until both of you know what you're getting into and are happy with that.

[kingjulian 80]

hi there, my fiancee was once in your shoes with her ex from Haiti and her vivid advice is to dump him and send him back to Cuba because he might end up going for a Cuban lady that fits him

[WandY 430]

Throw him back! The ungrateful Castronian doesn't deserve you or the USA. Cut your losses now!!!

[kikibooboo 11]

I'm sorry to hear that. I have arrived in the USA recently too, about a month ago, and I'm visiting my boyfriend who lives here. Honestly, at first it was a bit of a shock, sometimes I would wonder if the places was right for me, cause everything seems to be so far out and the suburbs seem so in the middle of nowhere. I would say these things to him and I'm a very transparent person, so even if I didn't say anything, my frustration was clear in my eyes and he could see it. But after some time, I began to accept America better. I know this is the place where the man I love lives and I know it isn't always easy. I miss my mum a lot and while he's away at work I call her and we talk for 30-60 minutes almost everyday so it warms my heart. Maybe if your fiance tries to have his own life here, e.g. do any activity or making friends on his own he will feel better and a little less uncomfortable. My boyfriend has been very patient with me like you. I don't wanna discourage you or anything but if your fiance complains about it ALL the time, you must stand up for yourself and tell him to respect your country and stop complaining and be less narrowminded and at least try. If he loves you, he'll do this "sacrifice".

[El_killer47 22]

My fiance has only been here about two weeks, so I completely understand that we are in the culture shock phase. I would love some emotional support from VJ, especially those who have a Cuban fiance. To date our relationship has been spent in Cuba with monthly trips made by me (is difficult for Cubans to travel out of the country). My fiance lived in Russia for three years, so I had assumed he would have more realistic expectations about what it takes to move to another country and that not everything works the same in all parts of the world. He is complaining about everything here. I mean this literally and not figuratively- he has not liked one single thing. I have taken off work and have been showing him everything about Los Angeles, trying to explain how things work (as they come, not forcing things on him), and putting everything aside to make him feel happy and comfortable. Before moving here I tried talking about everything and letting him know how things work here. He was insistent that it wasn't about the place for him, it was about being with the person he loves. It's just hard to have it be about the person you love when everything we do, eat, see, experience is "horrible" and "so much worse than Cuba". He has been video chatting with all of his Cuban friends (spends at least 4-5 hours each day dong this) telling them how much america sucks and he can't wait to return to Cuba. He is annoyed that there is not a Cuban community here. Since I realize he is home sick, we have been going to a different Cuban restaurant every day. He talks through the whole meal about how horrible it is, that they do not know how to cook beans right, that the menu isn't authentic, that the meat is horrible, that the decor looks nothing like Cuba, etc. I took him to a world famous fish restaurant, with a gorgeous outdoor patio on the Pacific. I am a vegetarian, but I knew he would like some good fish so I took him there. He was yelling really loudly on video chat in the restaurant, talking with his mouth full, holding up his lobster on his fork telling his Cuban friends it was terrible, and they don't know how to cook here. Keep in mind this is Southern California, where at least 50% of the population speaks Spanish. At that point I just started crying behind my sunglasses because I feel like I have made a horrible (and expensive) mistake.

Wow. Sorry about your situation. Most people would do anything to be able to get to America and be thankful once here. It sounds like the problem is something else. Either you've been too nice to him and he's abusing you for it. If I were in your shoes, I'd just let him make his own mind about what he wants. Because it is what it is. Did you, maybe try a bit too hard in accommodating him. It does sound like it. You're taking him to cuban restaurants everyday etc.

Lady, you are an equal person to him. It is not your responsibility to make sure his every need is taken care of. He's a man.. if anything he should be slightly more worried about comforting you. Sometimes what's needed is nothing other then a dose of tough love. Tell him, we're here now and we're adults. Ask him what he wants to do now? Let him take some responsibility and make decisions. best of luck. Hope he settles down and starts acting like an adult.

[Aya820 33]

He did not have many belongings. I have totally enabled all of this. I am not saying I am to blame, but am just admitting I have been an enabler. The part I have the most difficulty understanding is that when I am vocal about things, I get dismissed to not understanding Cuban people and Cuban culture.

Next time he says that ask him if Cubans are belligerent, toddler acting people? If no, then ask for him to explain the Cuban culture so that I will understand your childish and spoiled behavior.

[Sandra G. 5,038]

Buy today one way ticket to Cuba and give to him. I bet he will go to live in somewhere in the USA, but he will not go back to Cuba at all.

Take all clothes you gave to him and donate to Goodwill.I would open the door and tell him to GET OUT !. I don't believe he is just a jerk,he is a scammer getting ready to disappear soon from your life.

[heo luoi 206]

NewsFlash, US normalized relations w/ Cuba.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/18/world/americas/us-cuba-relations.html?_r=0

Plenty of people raise their own dead weight here, and if we needed more dead weight, we could just import it. Don't need this wingnut. America was built on the backs of hard working immigrants. Have pride in your country/culture great. But if you're here, try to exercise what is so great about your culture here vs just pining or whining about it. You're here, embrace it. No ones going to hand him a job / money...etc ...except you. So stop it.

You bought him $1800 of clothes that he thought would be the value of 2 BMWs?

I still dont think waiting for him to get a job is going to do anything, all those tasks seem like they'll be well 'beneath him' and you'll just waste time on marriage / AoS.

OP get him on an action plan w/ you or an itinerary home to his beloved Cuba. You can do / deserve better.