How many times did you meet prior to filing?

[Georgia16 2,858]

We will be filling on our 6th visit together here in January We also talk every day on facetime and in the weekend 2-3 times on facetime Crazy but couldn't do it if we didn't do it that way.

[Chris and ZhiJia 146]

We are still moving through the process, but Prior to filing we met 3 times.

1st - I traveled to China to visit her

2nd - I traveled to China to visit her

3rd - She came here to visit me

4th - has not occurred yet, but I will be present in China to support her as she goes for her interview.

[Pennycat 880]

I guess we're 6 meetings before filing (including the initial meeting), then 2 visits during the process and me attending the interview. Costa Rica is pretty close and surprisingly cheap/easy to get to, otherwise this would be a very, very different story.

And this all mostly coincides with:

4th of July week,

Columbus Day (the federal fiscal year ends and then we get a long weekend almost right away, for my line of work that is prime time to take a chunk of time off. Plus Oct 2013 was the government shutdown. I figured I may as well go and see if what I had with that guy was legit rather than burn my vacation days watching reruns at home)

Christmas/New Year

I only managed to visit outside of those prime vacation times once, and not for long and only have a giant guilt trip to my co-workers.

Met:

July 2013

Visits

Oct 2013

Dec 2013/Jan 2014

July 2014

Oct 2014

Dec 2014/Jan 2015 -- Engaged

Filed Feb 2015

More visits:

May 2015

July 2015

Interview (attended)

Oct 2015

[Pennycat 880]

Understand your points and see both perspectives.

I guess I'd say cause I wasn't going to fly my butt 1/2 across the planet without already knowing for sure I was going to. We communicated for hours 2x / day which is likely a lot more than all my USC friends here (many of whom are divorced, or wish they were or otherwise miserable ) Hopefully they get that and realize my being gainfully employed, upstanding tax paying USC is a better utilization of my time and money than flying back/forth excessively. Personally we want to start a family (together) the sooner together, the sooner that could (hopefully) happen.

Honestly why have a fiance visa at all then? ammiright? Just require a K3/CR1 and be done w/ it.

Argh, can it just be WED already.

Some people can't get married abroad because of the marriage rules in the foreigner's country. It's mostly in relation to same-sex couples but also mixed religions, people with prior divorces and things like that. I'm personally glad for the K1 because unless they can get CR1's down to under a year or allow DCF again (that took 3 months or less in the past) or allow couples to wait for the CR1 together in the US (ie make K3 a "thing" again), the status quo is absurd.

[Unidentified 2,930]

Dated a year while I lived in the US, lived together a year in the US and then we did long distance a year before I finally got to come over on the K1 We filed after I had to go back to Sweden.

[heo luoi 206]

I guess my point is everyones circumstances are different. Flex time, finances, countries involved. To wit just broad brushing 'how much' face/face times is pretty subjective in # of trips, or length of trip(s). People w/ VWP its 'easier' but others it very costly and w/ employment constraints restrictive. Is a 3 wk trip less meaningful then 5 weekends?

My fiance yesterday at interview said gal next to her fiance visited 5 times and had heaps of evidence yet denied. Obviously don't have context to the quality of evidence, IF they looked at it ...etc. He was also there, but that'd be a horrible trip. I personally didn't go and we were gratefully approved. I cant imagine flying there and getting denied...that'd be gut wrenching. She literally said she thought she was the only interviewee that was there waiting alone and was getting really nervous. She then said she was one of the only few that got passed while she was there.

Obviously more face/facetime can not hurt your case. But people agressively push it here. Its just hard for some people to go and doesnt mean they are necessarily any less invested. Again I think it really matters by Consulate but even then its interesting to know how they judgment process as subjective as it is kinda works. Honestly like others mentioned seems like they kinda have their predisposition first and you validate it or not at the interview as fair or not as that is. In general I think doing these all day every day perhaps they do have a decent inhernet read on most cases I guess I would hope

Some people can't get married abroad because of the marriage rules in the foreigner's country. It's mostly in relation to same-sex couples but also mixed religions, people with prior divorces and things like that. I'm personally glad for the K1 because unless they can get CR1's down to under a year or allow DCF again (that took 3 months or less in the past) or allow couples to wait for the CR1 together in the US (ie make K3 a "thing" again), the status quo is absurd.

[Pennycat 880]

I guess my point is everyones circumstances are different. Flex time, finances, countries involved. To wit just broad brushing 'how much' face/face times is pretty subjective in # of trips, or length of trip(s). People w/ VWP its 'easier' but others it very costly and w/ employment constraints restrictive. Is a 3 wk trip less meaningful then 5 weekends?

My fiance yesterday at interview said gal next to her fiance visited 5 times and had heaps of evidence yet denied. Obviously don't have context to the quality of evidence, IF they looked at it ...etc. He was also there, but that'd be a horrible trip. I personally didn't go and we were gratefully approved. I cant imagine flying there and getting denied...that'd be gut wrenching. She literally said she thought she was the only interviewee that was there waiting alone and was getting really nervous. She then said she was one of the only few that got passed while she was there.

Obviously more face/facetime can not hurt your case. But people agressively push it here. Its just hard for some people to go and doesnt mean they are necessarily any less invested. Again I think it really matters by Consulate but even then its interesting to know how they judgment process as subjective as it is kinda works. Honestly like others mentioned seems like they kinda have their predisposition first and you validate it or not at the interview as fair or not as that is. In general I think doing these all day every day perhaps they do have a decent inhernet read on most cases I guess I would hope

Oh for sure everyone's circumstances are different. Which is why the K1 should certainly still be an option, IMO. For me, if I was involved with someone from a European VWP country I don't think I'd even be on this site. That would not have been possible to maintain unless that person had more vacation time than I do (which I suppose being from Europe they probably would) and unless I was willing to take on debt and/or make significant changes in my lifestyle at home to fund their flights to see me. Same thing for Asia. I probably would not have been an option for more than maybe 2 face-to-face meetings ever. I've been to Vietnam (lived in Hanoi for 2 months), I know how long, far, difficult and expensive it is to get there. There is absolutely no way I'd be able to swing it in either time off or flight expense and then we'd be in the position of doing a K1 with maybe not enough facetime or doing what you suggested and going CR1 and hoping for the best (or hoping they'd open up K3s again).

I just got lucky. Costa Rica is a 4.5 hour flight, direct, on Southwest for about $300 RT (before Southwest opened that route it was a layover somewhere and about $500 but still not bad at all). I took on a part time retail job to create a dedicated travel fund and I worked at so few hours I barely noticed and after a few weeks had airfare again. For me to NOT have many trips/facetime would be suspect, in my opinion. I think that for the most part people are aware of these hardships/differences. You're a perfect example-- you were approved without being there and without having a lot of trips. Probably because someone somehow realized that what's possible/realistic for some folks are not for others. Who knows why the others were denied? Did she overhear anything? The couple right before us were denied, too. But that's because they'd both been married before and one of them had been divorced in the US and the divorce papers weren't properly notarized or whatever and they had to go back to the US to get them.

And in terms of why people aggressively push facetime here... I think part of that depends on who is giving the advice. I've noticed anecdotally that people who meet on international dating websites seem to push facetime hard. Possibly because of the nature of said websites and the need to overcome some possible negative assumptions on the part of the consulates. And also, generally, that is the actual best way to prove legitimacy. Not the only way, obviously, but a sure-fire way. Not everyone is able to do it, and that's fine. The "test" is pass/fail. Some people get 100% plus extra credit, some people get 85% but passing is passing and that's all that matters. But it still doesn't change the advice that the best way to get closer to the 100% plus extra credit is to go above and beyond and have a ton of facetime and be present at the interview. So if you can, do it. If you can't don't sweat it and prove legitimacy other ways.

[heo luoi 206]

Im not sure you mixed my context cause you keep revisiting but To wit for pure clarification I am clearly not advocating the abolishment of K1.

Oh for sure everyone's circumstances are different. Which is why the K1 should certainly still be an option, IMO. For me, if I was involved with someone from a European VWP country I don't think I'd even be on this site. That would not have been possible to maintain unless that person had more vacation time than I do (which I suppose being from Europe they probably would) and unless I was willing to take on debt and/or make significant changes in my lifestyle at home to fund their flights to see me. Same thing for Asia. I probably would not have been an option for more than maybe 2 face-to-face meetings ever. I've been to Vietnam (lived in Hanoi for 2 months), I know how long, far, difficult and expensive it is to get there. There is absolutely no way I'd be able to swing it in either time off or flight expense and then we'd be in the position of doing a K1 with maybe not enough facetime or doing what you suggested and going CR1 and hoping for the best (or hoping they'd open up K3s again).

I just got lucky. Costa Rica is a 4.5 hour flight, direct, on Southwest for about $300 RT (before Southwest opened that route it was a layover somewhere and about $500 but still not bad at all). I took on a part time retail job to create a dedicated travel fund and I worked at so few hours I barely noticed and after a few weeks had airfare again. For me to NOT have many trips/facetime would be suspect, in my opinion. I think that for the most part people are aware of these hardships/differences. You're a perfect example-- you were approved without being there and without having a lot of trips. Probably because someone somehow realized that what's possible/realistic for some folks are not for others. Who knows why the others were denied? Did she overhear anything? The couple right before us were denied, too. But that's because they'd both been married before and one of them had been divorced in the US and the divorce papers weren't properly notarized or whatever and they had to go back to the US to get them.

And in terms of why people aggressively push facetime here... I think part of that depends on who is giving the advice. I've noticed anecdotally that people who meet on international dating websites seem to push facetime hard. Possibly because of the nature of said websites and the need to overcome some possible negative assumptions on the part of the consulates. And also, generally, that is the actual best way to prove legitimacy. Not the only way, obviously, but a sure-fire way. Not everyone is able to do it, and that's fine. The "test" is pass/fail. Some people get 100% plus extra credit, some people get 85% but passing is passing and that's all that matters. But it still doesn't change the advice that the best way to get closer to the 100% plus extra credit is to go above and beyond and have a ton of facetime and be present at the interview. So if you can, do it. If you can't don't sweat it and prove legitimacy other ways.

Edited November 4, 2015 by heo luoi

[Pennycat 880]

Im not sure you mixed my context cause you keep revisiting but To wit for pure clarification I am clearly not advocating the abolishment of K1.

I mean in response to your question about why have a fiance visa-- why not just require CR1/K3 from everyone? I've thought that too (from a risk mitigation perspective for the US government), and eventually realized that it exists for a reason which makes sense, but more and more people are using it as a time-saver which it was not always really intended to be. But for those for whom it makes sense (those who won't be under as much relationship scrutiny and/or can overcome scrutiny), may as well just let it be the time-saver option at this point.

It used to be a relatively obscure visa but because they got rid of most USCIS offices abroad, DCF is not possible most places anymore (that's just what most people used to do), which made the CR1 process balloon to its current state (and was nearly twice as long as before which is why they invented K3, and now that it is "more reasonable", they've effectively abolished the K3). So, as you know, people who are deciding what to do have much more incentive to go for K1.

[baron555 934]

I guess my point is everyones circumstances are different.

Yep

People w/ VWP its 'easier' but others it very costly and w/ employment constraints restrictive. Is a 3 wk trip less meaningful then 5 weekends?

I guess the warning to future international daters is, this will be a costly endeavour. Don't start something you can't deal with.

My fiance yesterday at interview said gal next to her fiance visited 5 times and had heaps of evidence yet denied. Obviously don't have context to the quality of evidence,

Most likely.

Obviously more face/facetime can not hurt your case. But people agressively push it here.

I think it's because the notion is that most folks don't know how to have meaningful conversations relative to their relationship......and to generate the evidences needed to prove that to a stranger, the Embassy CO.

Its just hard for some people to go and doesnt mean they are necessarily any less invested.

Again, they have to prove it....their word alone is not enough.

Again I think it really matters by Consulate but even then its interesting to know how they judgment process as subjective as it is kinda works. Honestly like others mentioned seems like they kinda have their predisposition first and you validate it or not at the interview as fair or not as that is. In general I think doing these all day every day perhaps they do have a decent inhernet read on most cases I guess I would hope

The Embassy COs ARE highly trained.

[heo luoi 206]

Gosh that would be a difficult / interesting job an Embassy CO. To have to be so objective but not a robot. Something for a cool AMA on reddit or some horrible reality tv show.

[Pennycat 880]

Gosh that would be a difficult / interesting job an Embassy CO. To have to be so objective but not a robot. Something for a cool AMA on reddit or some horrible reality tv show.

I've known quite a few over the years. I was actively trying to join back in my early/mid 20s and made it as far as the interview stage and then postponed because my interests took a different turn (I went to graduate school for something a bit different) and because I was repeatedly told that "if you go into the Foreign Service as a single woman you will remain a single woman until you leave". Because apparently it is unusual for women to marry foreigners (LOL). At the time, that was a compelling argument. And wouldn't you know it, right when I hit my early 30s, could not give any fewer "flips" about getting married or not, getting ready for a career change (ready to start the Foreign Service process again), I met the foreigner I eventually will marry. LIFE, RIGHT?

Essentially, the Foreign Service is US citizens who work in embassies abroad. There are MUCH more jobs than Consular Officers, and not all COs do visa interviews http://careers.state.gov/work/foreign-service/officer/career-tracks It is a huge program, one of the most competitive application processes in the country. Written exam only offered a few times per year and a hard 20% passing rate (which means if 20% of the people get every answer correct and you miss only one, you still fail), then a multi-level interview stage (case management exercises, role playing, group projects etc), of which 20-30% pass. Then if you pass your name goes on a register (in order according to your score in the interview stage) and when they are ready to create a new "class" of incoming Foreign Service Officers, they call you up. You can only be on the register for a year, and if you don't get called up you start again. All in all about 2% of applicants get the job.

You get assigned your locations based on a bidding process but essentially you have to go where they send you, dangerous or not (you do get hazard pay though) and whether your family is allowed to follow you or not (some places are considered too dangerous to allow families). Your tours early in your career tend to only be 2 years but as your career progresses they can be up to 5. There are other requirements such as needing to reach tenure during a certain period of time and needing to serve in at least one hardship post before tenure and at least one post that requires language proficiency above a certain level, but those details I not only forget but may have changed since I was in the process.

Annnnyway.... I have known many. My undergrad was a bit of a "feeder school" into the Foreign Service, and I know lots of people who went in shortly after graduation, and have met many, many more over the years-- as friends and neighbors in the DC area. They are frequently assigned to DC while going through training (there's a whole language institue run by the State Department for this purpose), or for one of their "tours" at the State Department headquarters. Or, sometimes, the pregnant spouses of FSOs who were sent back here to wait to deliver because of medical concerns-- had a woman in my pottery class in that position. The neighborhood I live in is fairly popular with FSOs because the types/prices of accommodation suits their needs (easy to get shorter term furnished rentals, is 100% walkable/ transit oriented so they don't need to buy cars). A lot of these people (the ones who work or have worked as COs at least) know about Visajourney and can pick themselves out in the embassy reviews and while I never asked (too close to "the line"), I would not be surprised in the slightest if they do research about their upcoming couples here . The work sounds interesting and terribly frustrating and at times a bit boring or even dangerous. There's a former CO who posts here and has mentioned being threatened on the street by people whose visas he'd denied.

There used to be a huge community of bloggers who wouldn't really give too much insight into the process of adjudicating a visa but you'd get a really interesting look at life as an FSO. I think that since Facebook sort of took over social media and privacy concerns became greater, most people don't do that much anymore.

As for me, as I said, *right before* meeting Walter, I'd decided on a next couple of years plan that had me quitting my job at "International Consulting Firm X", getting back into something I actually liked, while starting the Foreign Service process again. Part of my fateful last minute trip to Costa Rica was sort of reclaiming myself and my goals..."deprogramming" from my years at Hell On Earth (it's a pretty brainwashy sort of company), and also "well, if I'm going to be a single lady in her 30s I may as well start acting like it--doing whatever I want whenever I want, and now I want to go have an adventure". I did make the move from Hell On Earth to something I like (recent frustrations aside), but have again but the FS on hold while I sort my personal life out. My one worry is that with a foreign born spouse it is harder to get a Top Secret clearance (which is required). Most FSOs who are married to foreigners have the TS *before* meeting/marrying a foreigner. But that part of the process is SO far in the future it is laughable, and it's only "more difficult", nowhere near impossible.

Edited November 4, 2015 by CatherineA

[heo luoi 206]

Wow. Very interesting. Im glad it certainly seems like an exhaustive vetting process.