This American father is redefining what it means to be a 'responsible gun owner'

[Dakine10 5,452]

To follow the parent analogy, as a responsible parent, I wouldn't give my children up for adoption because other parents were abusing their children. I would support laws that keep children safer. I would support laws that punish child abusers. I wouldn't hold on to some delusional notion that making laws tougher for child abusers would somehow make the government come and take my kids away.

A responsible gun owner giving up their gun misses the bigger picture IMO. It's a purely symbolic and unnecessary gesture. There are too many guns in the hands of criminals because there are too many guns period. As long as we continue with this cultural idiosyncratic belief that guns need to be freely and easily obtainable by everyone, the delusion will continue.

[lostinblue 1,989]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aM-QtXEaVk

using other people's tragedies to advance his own dubious agenda.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

To follow the parent analogy, as a responsible parent, I wouldn't give my children up for adoption because other parents were abusing their children. I would support laws that keep children safer. I would support laws that punish child abusers. I wouldn't hold on to some delusional notion that making laws tougher for child abusers would somehow make the government come and take my kids away.

A responsible gun owner giving up their gun misses the bigger picture IMO. It's a purely symbolic and unnecessary gesture. There are too many guns in the hands of criminals because there are too many guns period. As long as we continue with this cultural idiosyncratic belief that guns need to be freely and easily obtainable by everyone, the delusion will continue.

I think that's the point though isn't it. Whenever these incidents happen you hear the same arguments from the gun lobby and from gun enthusiasts. It's a deeply dishonest argument that suggests that the lives of innocent people are worth the price of admission to the gun club. They see no connection between the two. There is a connection.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aM-QtXEaVk

using other people's tragedies to advance his own dubious agenda.

Off topic and irrelevant. The thread isn't about Hillary or partisan politics.

[lostinblue 1,989]

To follow the parent analogy, as a responsible parent, I wouldn't give my children up for adoption because other parents were abusing their children. I would support laws that keep children safer. I would support laws that punish child abusers. I wouldn't hold on to some delusional notion that making laws tougher for child abusers would somehow make the government come and take my kids away.

A responsible gun owner giving up their gun misses the bigger picture IMO. It's a purely symbolic and unnecessary gesture. There are too many guns in the hands of criminals because there are too many guns period. As long as we continue with this cultural idiosyncratic belief that guns need to be freely and easily obtainable by everyone, the delusion will continue.

How is that war on drugs going. ... Drugs or guns criminals will always get their hands on them .

[lostinblue 1,989]

I think that's the point though isn't it. Whenever these incidents happen you hear the same arguments from the gun lobby and from gun enthusiasts. It's a deeply dishonest argument that suggests that the lives of innocent people are worth the price of admission to the gun club. They see no connection between the two. There is a connection.

Off topic and irrelevant. The thread isn't about Hillary or partisan politics.

using other people's tragedies to advance his own dubious agenda. (your words)

you brought up the subject ...... Hillary is using a tragedy to further her own agenda

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

using other people's tragedies to advance his own dubious agenda. (your words)

you brought up the subject ...... Hillary is using a tragedy to further her own agenda

The subject is the OP article, which doesn't mention Hillary or any politician other than Ben Carson for his comments on gun control and the holocaust and Obamas response to the Umpqua shootings.

You want to quote me against other mainstream political figures? Fine, you can do it in a thread about Hillarys views on gun control. ie not in this thread.

Edited October 12, 2015 by Trumplestiltskin

[JohnR! 5,495]

To be sure, but abortion always makes for a good red herring when it comes to gun violence in America.

There are a lot of people who have had an abortion and also have actual children. And yes, abortion can be a responsible option for many due to a wide range of very personal reasons.

Edited October 12, 2015 by JohnR!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

To be sure, but abortion always makes for a good red herring when it comes to gun violence in America.

I just wish sometimes these things weren't so boringly predictable. Edited October 12, 2015 by Trumplestiltskin

[JohnR! 5,495]

Ben Carson is only capitalizing on the suffering of others, to try and hide his political ineptitude, and lack of understanding for basic American law.

.... Ben Carson for his comments on gun control and the holocaust.

[Sousuke 1,214]

Do you never wonder why you don't hear many gun enthusiasts here say anything much about the victims of these mass shootings? Instead it's always hysterical rubbish about freedom and how everyone who doesn't have a gun should buy one and everyone who has one should be able to carry out wherever they want.

Seems strange to me, but there you go.

I mean just the other day a presidential candidate made some pretty appalling remakes about gun ownership and the holocaust, this sums up the mentality entirely - using other people's tragedies to advance his own dubious agenda.

Its because we are always being targeted afterwards.

There are millions of us that go about our daily lives and follow the laws. Then suddenly, you have a group of people demanding that we give up certain things for the interest of safety. Then they label these things as common sense even if they don't fully understand what they want legislated.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Its because we are always being targeted afterwards.

There are millions of us that go about our daily lives and follow the laws. Then suddenly, you have a group of people demanding that we give up certain things for the interest of safety. Then they label these things as common sense even if they don't fully understand what they want legislated.

I don't doubt it, but you can always predict the opinions of the NRA and many gun enthusiasts in the aftermath of these shootings. It's never about the families, it's always about the need to buy more guns and for more people to carry them.

I don't doubt that very many gun enthusiasts are law abiding, i just wish the debate over these incidents was actually honest. Whether or not you agree or disagree with the guy in the OP, isn't it a bit crass for people to be promoting guns as a solution but never part of the problem?

Edited October 12, 2015 by Trumplestiltskin

[Dakine10 5,452]

I think that's the point though isn't it. Whenever these incidents happen you hear the same arguments from the gun lobby and from gun enthusiasts. It's a deeply dishonest argument that suggests that the lives of innocent people are worth the price of admission to the gun club. They see no connection between the two. There is a connection.

.

I think a general sense of fear and paranoia works to the gun lobby's advantage. The do, after all, exist for the purpose of selling guns. They are not going to come out in support of background checks or anything else that would reduce gun sales to anyone. The whole idea that we need guns more guns to defend the guns we already have locked in the safe is their bread and butter.

They have one line. "More guns". Whether it makes sense or not doesn't matter. That's all they got.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Ben Carson is only capitalizing on the suffering of others, to try and hide his political ineptitude, and lack of understanding for basic American law.

Those opinions are prevalent though - like birtherism, that Benghazi nonsense or the president being in league with Al Qaeda..

I believe that a lot of people have stereotyped views of the holocaust and genuinely think that a complex series of events can be reduced down to "Germans killed the Jews, because the Jews had no guns and couldn't fight back". The Jews in fact did fight back.

[Dakine10 5,452]

How is that war on drugs going. ... Drugs or guns criminals will always get their hands on them .

Background checks wouldn't stop you from getting another gun. They wouldn't stop a criminal either, but in the long run, it would make it a degree harder. You already know that but you choose to repeat dogma instead. I don't see the point.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I think a general sense of fear and paranoia works to the gun lobby's advantage. The do, after all, exist for the purpose of selling guns. They are not going to come out in support of background checks or anything else that would reduce gun sales to anyone. The whole idea that we need guns more guns to defend the guns we already have locked in the safe is their bread and butter.

They have one line. "More guns". Whether it makes sense or not doesn't matter. That's all they got.

Oh sure. I just think it's interesting that there are gun enthusiasts with different opinions who don't want to be associated with those views, even to the extent that they are prepared to get rid of their own guns. Yet as we've seen in this thread - few if any of this man's peers on here appear willing to entertain his opinion, even if they happen to disagree with it. Instead he's got be characterised as some sort of traitor. Edited October 12, 2015 by Trumplestiltskin