DENIED

[MrsBonsu 138]

Many posters have the mistaken belief that if they throw a big enough tantrum or try to play the 'I have rights' card, a big red carpet will suddenly roll out of the front of an embassy....it won't.

Please review section 222(f) of the INA, in which it states that discussion of the visa interview is strictly limited.

Insisting to do anything at an embassy will not open doors. You have no power over anyone at our embassies. None. Zero.

For others who believe that a phone call from a senator or congressman to a CO will cause instant intimidation has an erroneous view of what power our representatives have....which is mostly to raise their own salaries. They lack the power to order a CO to do anything. There is one and only one thing that a consular official must do that is mandated, and that is answer a written inquiry from a representative within three days of receipt of same. There are no special laws or powers that enable a representative to start ordering visa issuances or head of line privileges for anyone.

Trying to play the 'big shot' in some fashion will by and large backfire. If a CO decides to return a petition or deny a visa, there is nothing one can do about it except (later) address the issues (if possible) that brought about the denial or return of a petition. If a CO decides to allow the USC spouse to attend the interview, that is their choice and theirs alone. It is by invitation only. There is no specific 'right' one has to attend the interview. After all, who is being interviewed? The USC or a foreign born spouse?

Most people (on this site) believe (erroneously) that they know more than any CO...which is quite odd, considering that virtually none of the aggrieved USCs posting have ever been a CO...so how would anyone claim that they know more than one? Even the greenest of COs has interviewed hundreds of applicants, probably thousands, before they are assigned to the immigrant visa section. Their immigrant visa decisions must be reviewed by at least one higher up....

They are not required to believe anything that anyone says, nor writes on a piece of paper. There are very specific protocols to follow and in this regard, the adjudication of immigrant visa applications is far different than interviewing people who are applying for tourist or student visas (and a few other types of non-immigrant visas), where in that arena, decisions are more subjective.

At the end of the day, the CO's opinions and assessment of an application generally rule the day, within certain boundaries. Once, however, they decide (and their boss agrees) to return a petition, it's going to get packaged up and shipped off to USCIS no matter how loudly one thumps their blue passport on the interviewing window, nor how many letters a congressman writes.

It is not a perfect system, but then, the applicant pool is far from perfect either.

In countries in which visa fraud is rampant, thank the fraudsters for making things tougher for the legit folks. The actions of the scammers only fuels skepticism (with good reason) in the hearts and minds of COs.

Your post is accurate, the co told me she didn't have to listen to me or believe anything I say, that it's up to my husband to convince her he is the who needs the visa! But on that same note when we supplied everything they asked for after I send in bona fide things why can't they just do there job!

[HFM181818 750]

A longer reply later, but it is important to remember one thing: a CO, doing an immigrant visa interview, is about to hand over permanent residency to somebody, with the CO's name on the approval line. A CO should not 'rubber stamp' such an application, nor be 'convinced' of the bona fides of a relationship merely by sorting through a bunch of self-serving, choreographed letters from friends and relatives, the local dog catcher nor anyone else attesting to the sincerity of the relationship...that is just plain silly. Many of the letters I glanced at were all written by the same person, just signed by different people!

It is the beneficiary, by and large, who must do most of the convincing, and much of that can be ferreted out during the interview, not by gazing at staged photographs or scripted responses.

Yes, that means that sometimes bona fide beneficiaries might have to jump through some hoops, but the end product is a baseline of what a solid relationship looks and sounds like, making it easier to identify the questionable ones, and eventually move the good ones along.

[efofie 8]

They requested for remittance receipts on form 221 (g), my wife sent 12 MoneyGram receipts but they did not look at them. What other document can I send again as remittance receipt? Even the moneygram receipt that I added to the documents I sent to NVC was given back to her. CO asked her to describe my friend who live here in Portland, she was able to answer the question because he went to Ghana with me. also CO asked her what my favorite joint was and she said I have two jobs so do not go to bars and she said that's not true. She said they didn't even ask her anything about how we met or how long we knew each other before getting married.

[Ebunoluwa 6,136]

Our experience is quite different as described by HFM181818.

The CO placed us in AP for almost 1 1/2 years and then returned the petition.

I visited 5 times.

I (USC) assertively went to see the CO and brought 12# of evidence because she wanted to see more evidence.

I asked her what evidence do you want ? She answered I can't tell you that.
When I brought it she said she won't look through it. WTH ?

I asked her what the problem is and she said she didn't think ours would not be a lasting marriage.

I asked why ? She said :' It's just a gut feeling' as she shrugged her shoulders.

(She obviously didn't get the memo not to merely re adjudicated an approved petition and make a judgement

on personal bias, assume or speculate but give factual reasons.)

My fiance then chimed in and said that he truly loves me and she sharply told him to be quiet like a child and that she was

talking to me, that I asked the question and she will answer me (USC) and will not talk to him.

I made a note of everything that was said, all my emails and verbal communication with the CO and submitted it all with my

next I-129 that I re filed for another K1.

This time around we had a different CO who was professional and respectful.

He interviewed my fiance (now husband) and I told him that even if he returns the case too then I still say

that he was kind and treated my fiance with respect, my fiance agreed.
I received a phone call early in the morning from the CO for a stokes. The questions and his tone was kind and he said he just needed

to be convinced a bit more and that he wanted to ask me (USC) some questions on what I thought about this and that.

He said he could see the love we have for one another from the photos and that he had just interviewed my fiance.

Then came the approval.
Sifting through fraudsters and bona fides doesn't take gone- rogue CO's with rude manners, a professional doesn't need collateral

damage to dig deep and find the truth.

Not all CO's are outstanding specimen of the human race, we heard about the CO accepting bribes and soliciting sexual favors to

female beneficiaries who was finally dismissed from his post.
CO's are humans and some get it right and some get it very wrong. I thank the professional ones for their foreign service and
suggest the rogues stop playing agent 007 scenes and get a life and do their job with the professionalism that is demanded from them

like it is from everyone of us in our daily jobs.

The good flip side to their wide discretionary power is that they can use that very same discretion to freely speak to the USC and gauge

the answers to the overall interview experience as they should. There are two in this relationship and it only makes sense to

interview or ask both, not just the beneficiary. Dynamics can change as it did in our case and a CO should be flexible enough to

seek out and recognize convincing evidence from all angles, including from the USC.

[Chaneydic1333 29]

I can't help but agree with both of you. There are always all kinds of rules and principles in place until you experience a rogue CO. The same could be true for an applicant who overstates his/her rights regarding this process. This is not about the concventional wisdom. The same tools (human intuition and discretion) that allows for a CO to be able to do his/her job better also allows them to be human, in understanding that sometimes, reevaluating our decisions might be the right thing to do. These tools, which may or may not be written down, cannot be one sided against the applicant all of the time. There are certainly exceptions.

[Ryan H 3,812]

~~~Hijack post along with a response to said post removed. Please start your own thread with your own questions.~~~

[jess100 53]

1. Sorry I did mean to say pastor not poster. The pictures she sent were our marriage ceremony pictures at the church. CO said since we did it at the church why didn't we have any of the picture with the pastor together. Also, they want to see our chart records. I'm going to screenshot those from WhatsAPP and put all together on a word document. But the WhatsAPP charts when I screenshot, its not showing the date of the chart. They also want to see remittance slips, I don't have those. I have a house in Ghana so we were not in a hotel.

Any financial records you could provide? Life insurance or retirement funds with her as beneficiary? Letters from your neighbors (or her family or the pastor) that the two of you are often working on the house together? Things she bought to decorate the house?? Trips you've taken by bus or plane (tickets with names)

good luck

[Sekhvaruli 74]

You should write to the embassy and ask them to let you in. This is the answer I got from my embassy:

Dear Ms.***,
Thank you for your email. In order to come to the consular section, please email us the date of the interview of Mr. ***. You will not be able to attend the interview, if not requested by the consular officer but you will be able to enter the waiting room.
Best Regards
Consular Section

[Sekhvaruli 74]

1. I have a house in Ghana so we were not in a hotel.

Ask for the affidavits from your neighbours, saying they've seen you together - bringing shoppings into the house, working on the front yard, etc.

[TBoneTX 45,285]

Bump -- unanswered:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/569805-denied/?p=7849701

[Soloenta 2,218]

It's clear that HFM181818 has served as a consul, and his statements are not to be dismissed out of hand.

The standard presumption (and advice in these forums) is that evidence of a bona fide relationship can be supplemented with additional evidence that is brought to the interview.

However, there are far too many stories that evidence brought to the interview is not considered or even looked at. I, and my VJ pal who is currently visiting me, are living testament to this reality. Even these 7 years later, and with now-naturalized wives, we remain livid with anger about this. Evidence that our fiancees brought to their interviews was not looked at.

Furthermore, we remain livid over having been ordered -- by a vice-consul, through our wives -- to attend a "joint" "marriage" interview (a euphemism for a Stokes), or the visas would be refused.

At the first interview, our fiancees were told, in essence, "Not enough information! Go away!" At the Stokes, we were told "Too much information! Go away!"

Either evidence that is brought (to whichever interview) is considered, or it isn't. If the consul has already decided before the first interview to refuse the visa, why go through the charade of an actual interview? If the petitioner's presence was desired or expected at the initial interview, why was this not made clear, either through direct communication in advance or by a statement on the consulate's website?

To add insult to injury, neither my VJ pal nor I was Stokes-interviewed by an actual consul. We were interrogated by Foreign Service Nationals, who certainly had no authority to grant the visas. It's equally certain to us that our Stokes interviews were being observed by the original or another vice-consul.

Our FSN interviewers told our fiancees (who were interrogated after we were) that no decision would be made that day. When I heard this, I demanded to speak with an American. The vice-consul eventually came to the window and said that a decision would be made in 2 weeks. No 221(g) paper was ever provided.

After several weeks of personal hell, I phoned the consulate and insisted to every party that I be connected with an American in the Immigrant Visa Unit. After some time, the Section Chief himself came on the line. I explained the promise of review; he said that no one should have made that prompt a promise, and said to send him an e-mail about the matter with his name in the Subject line. Within 48 hours, the visa was granted.

My VJ pal's petition was returned to USCIS, reaffirmed, and sent back to the consulate, and the visa was granted. As stated, we've been married to those "fraudulent, non-bona fide" beneficiaries for years, and they're naturalized USCs. Today, October 9, is the 7-year anniversary of my own "fraudulent, non-bona fide" beneficiary's uneventful admission to the U.S.

We know personally of 4 other couples who experienced the same or worse during this period. Other petitioners were overheard and observed fruitlessly trying to get to speak with a consul.

Of note, my fiancee's first interview was immediately after the tourist-visa interview of an obvious flim-flam artist (she heard the whole thing). The vice-consul threw him out after a drawn-out process. He then immediately called her, without taking a couple of private minutes to clear his mind before resuming his interviews. He asked her only a few questions before throwing her out after barely 4 minutes with (verbatim) "More proof! Second interview! Bring your fiance!" She related to me all the questions and her answers, and I detected nothing that would have set off my own "fraud alert" antennae.

Yes, consuls are "human lie-detectors." Yes, the beneficiaries' country might have been known for high-fraud activity. Regardless, the process and our treatment stink to high heaven, and monkeyshines were obviously occurring. I would like to hear HFM181818's candid, detailed evaluation of what went on and of the issues above, because the answers might be enlightening in the past situation and in the OP's instance.

I would also like to know how suddenly or radically the interviewing policies and procedures of Immigrant Visa Units might change when a new Section Chief is transferred in.

Yup the CO wanted to know were i was when my husband had his interview, yet it states that we can NOT be with our spouse in the Embassy. Just talked to a VJ member today and was denied because he answered all the question hahahaha pick which one to much or too little. The nightmare that NEVER ends. I need and want my husband for Pete's sake we have been waiting all our lives for each other, now this.

Edited October 15, 2015 by Soloenta

[Soloenta 2,218]

A longer reply later, but it is important to remember one thing: a CO, doing an immigrant visa interview, is about to hand over permanent residency to somebody, with the CO's name on the approval line. A CO should not 'rubber stamp' such an application, nor be 'convinced' of the bona fides of a relationship merely by sorting through a bunch of self-serving, choreographed letters from friends and relatives, the local dog catcher nor anyone else attesting to the sincerity of the relationship...that is just plain silly. Many of the letters I glanced at were all written by the same person, just signed by different people!

It is the beneficiary, by and large, who must do most of the convincing, and much of that can be ferreted out during the interview, not by gazing at staged photographs or scripted responses.

Yes, that means that sometimes bona fide beneficiaries might have to jump through some hoops, but the end product is a baseline of what a solid relationship looks and sounds like, making it easier to identify the questionable ones, and eventually move the good ones along.

Then why are we requested to bring this well staged junk in/or send it? Is this just busy work for us? I don't understand what the CO's want it makes no sense to me. I hate having pictures taken so I didn't have many. Co says take pictures ok so we are doing so when we visit even if I rather not I'm shy and not photogenic. They want Skype/Viber screen shots/ Co doesn't like it because we don't sit there and type to each other because we rather listen to each others voices and see each other on Cam. WHAT IN HEAVENS NAME DO THEY WANT? I'm sorry my frustration leave is way high, I'm in anguish I don't know what is wanted of us. This is brutal and we are willing to put ourselves through this, but now with your post I'm ever more confused and depressed than before. I wish that all of you could just feel five minutes of our pain and anguish, I honestly don't think you could bare it.

[Amhara 460]

Then why are we requested to bring this well staged junk in/or send it? Is this just busy work for us? I don't understand what the CO's want it makes no sense to me. I hate having pictures taken so I didn't have many. Co says take pictures ok so we are doing so when we visit even if I rather not I'm shy and not photogenic. They want Skype/Viber screen shots/ Co doesn't like it because we don't sit there and type to each other because we rather listen to each others voices and see each other on Cam. WHAT IN HEAVENS NAME DO THEY WANT? I'm sorry my frustration leave is way high, I'm in anguish I don't know what is wanted of us. This is brutal and we are willing to put ourselves through this, but now with your post I'm ever more confused and depressed than before. I wish that all of you could just feel five minutes of our pain and anguish, I honestly don't think you could bare it.

I certainly would pass up your invitation for five minutes! But from your timeline, I can see it's been a long and I couldn't imagine! I'm so sorry.

Not that my two cents matter, but I would suggest to the OP and to any others to bring evidence of the early stages of the relationship and older items too. Photos should not be just from the most recent trip or from the night before the interview. I was able to get a few screen shots of our first messages between me and my guy because I wanted to establish how we met and that our case was not under the IMBRA rules. I managed to send a screen shot of numerical counts from our Facebook chats for three different time periods (as well as lovey dovey messages too). One thing I would also suggest is screen shots of messages between your love and someone in your family. Taking a few of those for maybe two different time periods may help.

Skype was hard for me to document, but they didn't take that evidence, which was okay because all I could do was a copy and paste of our logs. They didn't take our calling card records or letters, but I had a few copies in the petition too.

Essentially, what I suggest is how ever you and your spouse/future spouse keep your relationship going is what you should be showing. It should not be a static time period, but should cover a few different months. I know when I tried to go back in our Facebook messages for screen shots, it took me six hours and I could only get to three months prior because it was taking that long to load! It's best to try to document along the way and put them aside for a rainy day (just in case).

I know I would have become a day gone expat before five years! (But of course, everyone's situation is different.) That is very tough! I hope your wait is nearly over!

Edited October 16, 2015 by Amhara

[Unidentified 2,930]

Yes, I even remember reading that as a request somewhere along the process: to show evidence of ongoing relationship from the beginning of the relationship and forward. Any evidence of hanging out with your future spouse's family (photos, communication etc) is always a plus.

[Soloenta 2,218]

I certainly would pass up your invitation for five minutes! But from your timeline, I can see it's been a long and I couldn't imagine! I'm so sorry.

Not that my two cents matter, but I would suggest to the OP and to any others to bring evidence of the early stages of the relationship and older items too. Photos should not be just from the most recent trip or from the night before the interview. I was able to get a few screen shots of our first messages between me and my guy because I wanted to establish how we met and that our case was not under the IMBRA rules. I managed to send a screen shot of numerical counts from our Facebook chats for three different time periods (as well as lovey dovey messages too). One thing I would also suggest is screen shots of messages between your love and someone in your family. Taking a few of those for maybe two different time periods may help.

Skype was hard for me to document, but they didn't take that evidence, which was okay because all I could do was a copy and paste of our logs. They didn't take our calling card records or letters, but I had a few copies in the petition too.

Essentially, what I suggest is how ever you and your spouse/future spouse keep your relationship going is what you should be showing. It should not be a static time period, but should cover a few different months. I know when I tried to go back in our Facebook messages for screen shots, it took me six hours and I could only get to three months prior because it was taking that long to load! It's best to try to document along the way and put them aside for a rainy day (just in case).

I know I would have become a day gone expat before five years! (But of course, everyone's situation is different.) That is very tough! I hope your wait is nearly over!

Hahahaaa I don't blame you at all wish I could have passed it up myself.

The problem with us is we never thought at the start of us taking that anything would come of this but friendship and I didn't have a cam and didn't want one. Only in time since 2007 did it develop into marriage.

As this CO here says nothing we are doing taking pictures etc is of any use and how they decide is their gut instinct. It's nice to know that our life is in the soul discretion of human beings mostly men's gut feelings. Ahhhh now I can relax! ................. ..................

Since we started this journey with my husband I have had two computers pass away had ton's of stuff there. I returned to Sype and Yahoo and can now only go so far back. So much for Skype keeping messages forever if you wish it. I didn't know about those flash things so I didn't have anything saved. It's life and these people don't seem to take those things into account. Life isn't a cookie cutter we are not all the same and in the same circumstances. This is the real world and we don't sit behind Plexiglas and express our gut feelings.

Today is our 4Th wedding anniversary two together and two apart but we will celebrate when I get their at the end of Dec or sometime in January. Put that in your pipe and smoke it Immigration!!!!!!!

Thank you again for your kind words it's always nice to hear.

Yes, I even remember reading that as a request somewhere along the process: to show evidence of ongoing relationship from the beginning of the relationship and forward. Any evidence of hanging out with your future spouse's family (photos, communication etc) is always a plus.

Yes I agree but honestly how many of us know for fact that it will develop into the true love we have now? Does everyone automatically save everything from your first chat or meeting in person depending how how we met? I think it's a lot to ask to have evidence from day one and I would think they would be suspicious of that to be honest. I don't know I should just stop trying to make sense of what they want and how they think. We just want to live together and enjoy our life. Hugs to every one, God willing soon we will be with our loved ones and those that are with them now, God bless you to.