affidavits to prove bona fide marriage

[town&country 9]

Hi VJ members, I just got married in Grenada. We are preparing our petition for the spousal visa. My question is about the proof of bona fide marriage that is not 'required' but 'recommended' for one to have in this initial petition, besides the marriage license. (Incidentally, the immigration lawyer I spoke with for an hour a few months ago said he never includes anything but the marriage license when they are doing the petition for a client. Is the logic here that if you hire a lawyer you must have a bona fide marriage? He wouldn't explain. )

The Issue--We have no mingling of finances yet, so I have gotten affidavits from a few people. One person in Grenada made one, had it notarized by a JP as needed, and sent it to me, but unfortunately did not include his date and place of birth. Obviously it's needed so the person can be verified as a real person. Can I add it to the affidavit myself (I'm guessing not) or should I include the affidavit without that info, or just not include the affidavit at all, avoiding a possible RFE request? Or, ask that the person do the whole thing over again? This is becoming a stupid burden I must say . . . but oh well. Any advice for us? Thanks in advance.

Julia

[Anh map 2,098]

Affidavits really aren't worth much. It's just a letter and no one ever submits a bad one.

You want to show that you have a legitimate relationship, not just that a wedding ceremony was performed. Demonstrate how long you've known each other, how much time you've spent together, etc. Being newly weds you won't have the comingling of finances. But you do have the story of you as a couple from first meeting until present day.

[town&country 9]

Thanks for your quick response. So let me delve further into this:

In the USCIS instructions for the I-130 they do say you can present "any other relevant documentation to establish that there is an ongoing marital union." But the words 'any other' seem to imply that you could add some stuff after fulfilling one of the previous types of documentation that they ask for. The only thing on their bullet list that we can submit would be the affidavits. Do you think, in addition to these affidavits, complete or not, we should make a photo copy montage of photos and boarding passes/passport pages, apt rental receipts? I thought these things were saved for the interview but you are saying to submit some of that stuff now? Really appreciate the help.

[Ryan H 3,812]

Thanks for your quick response. So let me delve further into this:

In the USCIS instructions for the I-130 they do say you can present "any other relevant documentation to establish that there is an ongoing marital union." But the words 'any other' seem to imply that you could add some stuff after fulfilling one of the previous types of documentation that they ask for. The only thing on their bullet list that we can submit would be the affidavits. Do you think, in addition to these affidavits, complete or not, we should make a photo copy montage of photos and boarding passes/passport pages, apt rental receipts? I thought these things were saved for the interview but you are saying to submit some of that stuff now? Really appreciate the help.

The only thing that is truly required is the marriage certificate (not the marriage license). The bullet points you speak of are only suggestions, not requirements that have to be fulfilled. Anh map has already addressed that affidavits have little to no value. USCIS as well as the Embassy or Consulate will not expect nor require a couple living apart in separate countries to have joint finances or own property together.

Skip the affidavits and focus on evidence (the only proof is the certificate, everything else is evidence) of time spent together in person; this will be your strongest evidence. You already have a good list, make photocopies of the boarding passes, passport stamp pages, rental receipts and include that with your submission. Include some pictures that you have taken over the course of your relationship as well (these can be printed on regular paper).

While relationship evidence should be brought to the interview, you shouldn't save it for the interview. If you save it for the interview, it may never be looked at. Even if the interviewee tries to pass it to the CO unsolicited, the CO may immediately pass it back without so much as a fleeting glance. By including relationship evidence with the I-130, it becomes part of the file that will be reviewed before an interview takes place (i.e. if you want to ensure that your evidence will be seen by a CO, include it with the I-130).

[town&country 9]

thanks for straightening that out. I guess that leads me to one more question:

Are things like chat, text, and phone logs expected? These days I don't know how those things can be documented on a piece of paper. Possibly screenshots of Skype and FaceTime chat and text records? BTW, I meant marriage certificate not license but thanks for noticing that!

~Julia

[Ryan H 3,812]

Are things like chat, text, and phone logs expected? These days I don't know how those things can be documented on a piece of paper. Possibly screenshots of Skype and FaceTime chat and text records?

No, it is not expected. If you have it, include it. If you don't have it, then you don't have it. Many people do submit screenshots of Skype and/or FaceTime sessions. If you decide to submit chat logs, you don't have to include entire conversations, excerpts spanning the course of your relationship will suffice.

[raven52 233]

Just saying what was asked for and made the most impact.,.,.what some consider secondary evidence at most all levels.,.,.it was "pictures of us, especially, around land marks, posted signs, places that was clearly marked, where it was,".,.,., (example: the Island of Bohol, Philippines)

Also, for K-1 interview, the CO asked my wife, the first question, "do you have any pictures?"

I think it depends on the country, and the CO as to what they are looking for, but totally agree with Ryan H..,.,.,certified marriage certificate.,. is a must.

[TBoneTX 45,155]

While relationship evidence should be brought to the interview, you shouldn't save it for the interview. If you save it for the interview, it may never be looked at. Even if the interviewee tries to pass it to the CO unsolicited, the CO may immediately pass it back without so much as a fleeting glance. By including relationship evidence with the I-130, it becomes part of the file that will be reviewed before an interview takes place (i.e. if you want to ensure that your evidence will be seen by a CO, include it with the I-130).

The above should be enshrined in the pantheon of all-time greatest VJ advice.

[mallafri76 1,012]

While relationship evidence should be brought to the interview, you shouldn't save it for the interview. If you save it for the interview, it may never be looked at. Even if the interviewee tries to pass it to the CO unsolicited, the CO may immediately pass it back without so much as a fleeting glance. By including relationship evidence with the I-130, it becomes part of the file that will be reviewed before an interview takes place (i.e. if you want to ensure that your evidence will be seen by a CO, include it with the I-130).

This is such good advice. The US embassy in Sweden rarely look at evidence taken to the interview, they look at whatever is in the packet from NVC. Hence, if you didn't include bona fida proof in the petition to USCIS or later on to NVC, your case don't have any bona fida proof, regardless of how much you bring to the interview.

If you read the I-130 instructions, USCIS asks for documents proving a family relationship. It notes joint bank accounts, joint ownership of property etc and if you don't have that, you can include proof as noted under J in the instructions: "any other relevant documentation to establish that there is an ongoing marital union". I think the instructions are pretty clear that USCIS wants bona fida proof, so I don't know what that lawyer is talking about?! Make sure you include proof such as flight tickets/passport stamps to show visits to see each other, phone lists, chat logs, emails etc.

Good luck on your visa journey.

[town&country 9]

Thanks for weighing in everybody I really appreciate it!

So, that thing about having photos taken with landmarks or signs that prove your location, who is thinking about that when you are just getting to know someone. It seems like it could look manufactured, to have photos like that! I mean how convenient!! My photos don't have those location indicators but do show us in a variety of settings alone and with family members. I am counting on my passport stamps and other receipts as evidence that I spent time in my husbands (who was first a friend and then a fiancé) location.

About notarizing, it does say in the I-130 instructions to have affidavits notarized. But maybe I'll get the person to send an un notarized addendum . . . just to try and cover the bases.

Checking into chat, text, and phone records--even harder than I thought. Phone calls never went straight to his number, always through a phone card number. Skype chat and text logs don't migrate from your Skype app on the phone to the Skype app on the laptop, so I can't take an appropriate screenshot and print it out. FaceTime doesn't actually show a chat history, not on my laptop. and his prepaid cellphone doesn't keep records once the memory is cleared out. Same with text threads. I have those on my smart phone, but how to get that onto paper? Rhetorical question . . . I will probably skip this sort of evidence.

~Julia

[Adil & Jeanne 296]

USCIS in my huge RFE asked for affidavits from family memebers and friends who had attended our marriage ( morocco does not have a marriage but has marriage celebration parties after the signing of court papers) We had to also provide an afidavit from the hospital as his mom was in there at the time. USCIS, after getting these, sent packet to NVC.

Affidavits, when done correctly, are a viable and legal document are the person making them, in US, is held to account leggally for the document. Sorry, but lawyers take affiadvits all the time when a person can not attend a court date to tesify.

By definition:

af·fi·da·vit

ˌafəˈdāvit/

noun

Law

plural noun: affidavits

a written statement confirmed by oath or affirmation, for use as evidence in court

Edited October 4, 2015 by Adil & Jeanne

[Ryan H 3,812]

So, that thing about having photos taken with landmarks or signs that prove your location, who is thinking about that when you are just getting to know someone. It seems like it could look manufactured, to have photos like that! I mean how convenient!! My photos don't have those location indicators but do show us in a variety of settings alone and with family members. I am counting on my passport stamps and other receipts as evidence that I spent time in my husbands (who was first a friend and then a fiancé) location.

The photos you have are fine (especially the ones with family members). They don't need to have "location marks" or anything of that sort. I agree that photos should not be staged for purposes of immigration. When submitting a picture, a caption of who is in the picture, where it was taken, and when it was taken is sufficient.

About notarizing, it does say in the I-130 instructions to have affidavits notarized. But maybe I'll get the person to send an un notarized addendum . . . just to try and cover the bases.

The instructions for the I-130 say no such thing; if notarization was really required, the instructions would specifically state that. Furthermore, all notarizing does is verify the person signing the letter was in fact the person signing the letter, it does nothing to add any value to the content of the letter. Don't go to the trouble of getting an un-notarized addendum, it's a waste of time. How affidavits are used by lawyers in US courts and the dictionary definition of what they are is irrelevant in this instance. Evidence of time spent together in-person will always supersede what a 3rd party writes on a piece of paper. As for the reference to the huge RFE in a prior post, huge RFE's are not a common occurrence. While it is always possible in any case, the likelihood is extremely low. The instances that I've seen of them occurring from other posters on VJ have a particular pattern.

Edited October 4, 2015 by Ryan H