The chart that shows America's shocking murder rate compared to other countries

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

Marvin will come on here and tell you it is 110 percent

Nah, I'll leave the skewering of stats when it comes to minorities to you. It's what you do best.

[decocker 7,198]

1) I would say yes, all the blacks in prison for homicide ARE predisposed to murder. But none of the ones I have ever met or been friends with seemed to be.

2) Not sure if you are intentionally trying to be provocative or where you got that idea.

3) I believe that all human lives matter, anywhere and everywhere. Race should never even enter the equation; only those who are looking for turmoil or a fight would ever insinuate any particular group of people deserve to die.

1. you brought up deflection earlier in the thread and generally speaking the entire 'but what about black on black crime' argument is commonly brought up after a white cop on black civilian shooting for the exact purpose of deflection.

2. it's the question i want to ask first whenever i hear someone talk about black on black crime of how many black people are in prison in this country or how many black people kill other black people. not to be provocative, it's simply the question i have when someone goes on about a symptom of our diseased judical system and the PIC in this country. we not only have a shocking murder rate, we have the most people in jail. most of them aren't there for murder.

3.i agree that all life matters. i disagree that race should never enter into the discussion, especially when the data clearly shows different racial trends. my personal view if that class is a far better predictor than race, when it comes to gun violence. class warfare or race war, end of the day - dead people are dead and guns are easy to get. total mess.

[TBoneTX 46,276]

[...] the UK has the lowest crime rate in the world if you discount [...] Liverpool.

Crime rates for Liverpool (NY):

http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Liverpool-New-York.html

No murders from 2001 through 2013. This is counterintuitive. One would think that the natives would be violently upset at being called "Liverpoolers" rather than "Liverpudlians.'

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

It's a forum term known as deflecting. If you pay attention, you'll notice a particular lack of answers to direct questions by certain persona on a regular basis.

As for what you were asking Lost, it's a well documented fact that while blacks comprise only about 13% of the US population, they commit about xx% of the violent crime each year.

Whites are more violent towards their own race (82.4%) than blacks are towards other blacks (40.9%). But black-on-white crime ratio is 38.6%, while white-on-black violence is 3.6%. Kinda skewed there.

One in every 15 (6.7%) black males is in prison. One in every 36 (2.8%) hispanics. One in every 106 (0.9%) white males. You can draw your own conclusions from those numbers.

Note: The quick look I took includes data from varying recent years, so may not reflect exactly in a numerical, linear fashion. But the trend should be visible to anyone willing to look.

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_6_murder_race_and_sex_of_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2013.xls

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html

I'm glad you realised that I am not the author of the article.

Not quite sure what I'm deflecting. Perhaps you can explain. Presumably it doesn't involve other posters trying to get me to say things that for some reason they aren't willing to say without making me somehow complicit.

You guys are perfectly free to discuss the article without personalising it.

It's a forum term known as deflecting. If you pay attention, you'll notice a particular lack of answers to direct questions by certain persona on a regular basis.

As for what you were asking Lost, it's a well documented fact that while blacks comprise only about 13% of the US population, they commit about xx% of the violent crime each year.

Whites are more violent towards their own race (82.4%) than blacks are towards other blacks (40.9%). But black-on-white crime ratio is 38.6%, while white-on-black violence is 3.6%. Kinda skewed there.

One in every 15 (6.7%) black males is in prison. One in every 36 (2.8%) hispanics. One in every 106 (0.9%) white males. You can draw your own conclusions from those numbers.

Note: The quick look I took includes data from varying recent years, so may not reflect exactly in a numerical, linear fashion. But the trend should be visible to anyone willing to look.

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_6_murder_race_and_sex_of_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2013.xls

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html

I'm glad you realised that I am not the author of the article.

Not quite sure what I'm deflecting. Perhaps you can explain. Presumably it doesn't involve other posters trying to get me to say things that for some reason they aren't willing to say without making me somehow complicit.

You guys are perfectly free to discuss the article without personalising it.

[Sousuke 1,214]

I'll throw a new angle in this. The nations shown are the better off countries of Europe. So lets see what the better off states are (2013).

Mass. - 2.0

VT. - 1.8

CT - 2.4

NY - 3.3

Poor states:

Alabama - 7.2

Mississipi - 6.5

Louisiana -10.8

So clearly some US states can hold their own against other European countries.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

why are papers in the UK so obsessed with US gun and race issues?

What an assumption...

I guess you don't follow news outlets in other countries....

[JohnR! 5,495]

Because in some parallel universe it makes sense.

You can tell everyone you're on a rigid diet, if you discount all the sugar and carbs you're eating every day.

'But doctor, I don't know why my cholesterol is high? I eat very lean if you discount all the fried bacon in my diet!'

Seriously, you can't invent copy this good! :rofl: :rofl:

How ridiculous. Why would you discount major cities from a national picture of crime?

I could say that the UK has the lowest crime rate in the world if you discount London, Manchester, Birmingham, Glasgow, Newcastle and Liverpool.

Brilliant. Cheers for that!

[-relo- 105]

What an assumption...

I guess you don't follow news outlets in other countries....

no I don't. I based that assumption on your post history. now i'm assuming you just hunt for articles on those subjects.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

I have just noticed that when someone asks a direct question, particularly to you, you almost always, without fail, deflect the real question and ask a question with one of your own, or go on about something else. It's no big deal, really, if that is your preferred posting style. But most people would be appreciative of an answer when they take the time to ask you something. Whatever floats your boat, I guess.

Not quite sure what I'm deflecting. Perhaps you can explain. Presumably it doesn't involve other posters trying to get me to say things that for some reason they aren't willing to say without making me somehow complicit.

What are you trying to say here?

Probably because it's a 200-300 word newspaper article.

I really feel I'm stating the obvious here.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

1) I would say yes, all the blacks in prison for homicide ARE predisposed to murder. But none of the ones I have ever met or been friends with seemed to be.

2) Not sure if you are intentionally trying to be provocative or where you got that idea.

3) I believe that all human lives matter, anywhere and everywhere. Race should never even enter the equation; only those who are looking for turmoil or a fight would ever insinuate any particular group of people deserve to die.

1. Those in prison weren't predisposed to murder anymore than anyone else. You're not born with murderous intent.

2. It's a simple question, if you are, say so. If not, say so.

3. It's been insinuated since the day black people arrived here in this country. You can see it when folks are choked out, shot, or almost beaten to death on camera and the police are still either acquitted or get so little time it's not even a full calendar year. Black people in prison for selling weed doing 20 years versus some cop who killed a black guy doing 5(gets out in 1 and a half).

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

1. Those in prison weren't predisposed to murder anymore than anyone else. You're not born with murderous intent.

2. It's a simple question, if you are, say so. If not, say so.

3. It's been insinuated since the day black people arrived here in this country. You can see it when folks are choked out, shot, or almost beaten to death on camera and the police are still either acquitted or get so little time it's not even a full calendar year. Black people in prison for selling weed doing 20 years versus some cop who killed a black guy doing 5(gets out in 1 and a half).

1) Did they commit a murder? Yes or no?

2) It wasn't a question at all, simply a statement. And even if it were, I said nothing here today, nor in the rest of my life, to ever cause a person to think such a silly thing.

3) Sorry, I wasn't around the day blacks arrived in the US. All I can answer for, are my actions toward others around me. I can say that while it truly sucks what blacks had to go thru in the past, it's not only the US where they are treated badly. Nor just whites who do it. Try being a white African living in Africa, and see how badly you are treated. It's terrible. Every bit as bad, and sometimes worse, than a black American living in America.

People who commit crimes should do the appropriate time. Sometimes justice is meted out fairly, and other times it is not. If you want to feel outraged, what about the inmates who were innocent, yet did, or still are, serving time? Hardly fair, is it?

[Jacque67 7,328]

What percentage of them are fatties?

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

1) Did they commit a murder? Yes or no?

2) It wasn't a question at all, simply a statement. And even if it were, I said nothing here today, nor in the rest of my life, to ever cause a person to think such a silly thing.

3) Sorry, I wasn't around the day blacks arrived in the US. All I can answer for, are my actions toward others around me. I can say that while it truly sucks what blacks had to go thru in the past, it's not only the US where they are treated badly. Nor just whites who do it. Try being a white African living in Africa, and see how badly you are treated. It's terrible. Every bit as bad, and sometimes worse, than a black American living in America.

People who commit crimes should do the appropriate time. Sometimes justice is meted out fairly, and other times it is not. If you want to feel outraged, what about the inmates who were innocent, yet did, or still are, serving time? Hardly fair, is it?

1. Like I said, you're not born with murderous intent. You don't know the circumstances behind it, so how can you judge it?

2. And if you agreed or disagreed with it, you could have just said so.

3. White Africans go through some hardships, but it's still a drop in the bucket when it comes to their black counterparts. http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-22554709

Who is poor in South Africa?

• Average annual black income in 2011: $2,300
• Mixed-race (coloured): $4,300
• Asian: $7.700
• White: $17,500

• Everyone here, regardless of colour, tells you that white people are still riding high.

  They run the economy. They have a disproportionate amount of influence in politics and the media. They still have the best houses and most of the best jobs.

  All of this is true but it is not the only picture.

• Look below the surface and you will find poverty and a sense of growing vulnerability.

• The question I have come to South Africa to answer is whether white people genuinely have a future here.
• The answer, as with so many similar existential questions, is "Yes - but…"

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

1. Like I said, you're not born with murderous intent. You don't know the circumstances behind it, so how can you judge it?

2. And if you agreed or disagreed with it, you could have just said so.

3. White Africans go through some hardships, but it's still a drop in the bucket when it comes to their black counterparts. http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-22554709

Who is poor in South Africa?

• Average annual black income in 2011: $2,300
• Mixed-race (coloured): $4,300
• Asian: $7.700
• White: $17,500

• Everyone here, regardless of colour, tells you that white people are still riding high.

  They run the economy. They have a disproportionate amount of influence in politics and the media. They still have the best houses and most of the best jobs.

  All of this is true but it is not the only picture.

• Look below the surface and you will find poverty and a sense of growing vulnerability.

• The question I have come to South Africa to answer is whether white people genuinely have a future here.
• The answer, as with so many similar existential questions, is "Yes - but…"

1) There is no need for me to do so. A jury already did that, and a judge handed down the sentence. Nowhere did I ever state a person is born with murderous intent. I'd bet that many of us in the world, heck, even on this very forum, have FELT the notion. But acted on it? Most likely not. It's a choice, you see.

2) Yes, I could have. But as I tried to make clear above, there is no need for me to justify myself to you nor to the other poster. When I say something that makes you question my position on the subject, feel free to address me on it, even via PM if you really want to know. Until then, why would I defend something I never said?

3) How many white Africans do you know? I know only one, and I know he took the first chance he had to get a DV to get his family out of there. They feared for their lives on a daily basis, and he was sick of the racism towards his family. It didn't used to be so bad, but it's getting worse over there. And I don't know the experience of the writer of that article, but I'd trust a resident over a reporter any day. And he told me the government wasn't run by whites, and that it was very corrupt.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

1) There is no need for me to do so. A jury already did that, and a judge handed down the sentence. Nowhere did I ever state a person is born with murderous intent. I'd bet that many of us in the world, heck, even on this very forum, have FELT the notion. But acted on it? Most likely not. It's a choice, you see.

2) Yes, I could have. But as I tried to make clear above, there is no need for me to justify myself to you nor to the other poster. When I say something that makes you question my position on the subject, feel free to address me on it, even via PM if you really want to know. Until then, why would I defend something I never said?

3) How many white Africans do you know? I know only one, and I know he took the first chance he had to get a DV to get his family out of there. They feared for their lives on a daily basis, and he was sick of the racism towards his family. It didn't used to be so bad, but it's getting worse over there. And I don't know the experience of the writer of that article, but I'd trust a resident over a reporter any day. And he told me the government wasn't run by whites, and that it was very corrupt.

1. I've never felt like killing anyone. But that's just me.

2. You've been calling out Vekman on it for a while, just wondering why you don't ascribe to the same rule.

3. I've met Africans from Africa that were dark skinned. They speak about the horrors that they and the poor white people have to go through over there. Is the government more corrupt than when apartheid was in place?