How is CRBA not illegal?-Manila

[wolfreich 1]

They don't care what your school grades are, and I think you know that. They don't care directly about most everything you mention, they are all just ways to either prove one lived in the U.S. or of a relationship, you want the end all be all? (which it really isn't as the C.O. still has authority). The laws need a hard look at for sure, especially with dna testing a viable option that was not available/accepted when most these rules were laid out. Here.....

http://photos.state.gov/libraries/adelaide/171311/consular/Transmission%20Requirements%20Table.pdf

I don't know that.

And how would I have not lived in America? I was put on the plane the day I was born and sent abroad?

Besides this, who cares if I lived in America? I am American!

It is none of the Consulate's business when and when I lived!

Do these not seem like the most oddball rules for a child of Americans to become American?

[wolfreich 1]

It does not take six months everywhere for a birth certificate, that is the the phils. The U.S. isn't going to relax their rules or laws because of that.

Sure it birthing a baby would prove that you are the mother, but USCIS is not going to be in every delivery room and even if they were, they cannot monitor a baby 24/7 to ensure it is the exact one throughout the whole process. You seem to oversimplify the importance of certain documents.

With your logic why do birth certificates even exist? Isn't being alive proof enough that you were born?

It does take 6 months, or longer here for an NSO birth Certificate. You can check their website.

And if you take your LCR Birth Certificate outside the Philippines, it will be accepted by the State Department! Having the NSO is strictly a crazy Manila rule.

For exmple, what if you are going to lose your job if you can't get back to the USA for 6+ months?

And by your logic, no one born in America should be American. Who is there confirming the child is really born on US soil? Who checks if that is the same child from birth through the age they apply for their first passport?

Also, if you agree with the Manila Consulate that this is OK and important, why does no other Consulate have this rule? Why can we apply for a passport anywhere else without the CRBA?

[Tahoma 2,292]

Is the child's mother a citizen of the Philipines?

[racheal&david 108]

My fiancé is the USC and we got our son a CRBA/Passport/SSN at the London embassy last November. We are not married yet and it was a simple process. He was asked to provide tax/high school/college transcripts to show that he had been resident in the US for at least 5 years after he turned 14. This was a requirement to pass on citizenship to our son.

As far as proving we were the biological parents, I merely provided our sons UK birth certificate which showed both of our names. No relationship proof other than our passports containing the same stamps from working abroad together. At the interview they ask questions to establish your relationship therefore the CO is able to determine whether or not the child is yours I guess.

If you're honest and true then you needn't worry good luck. I found the process very simple.

My fiancé is the USC and we got our son a CRBA/Passport/SSN at the London embassy last November. We are not married yet and it was a simple process. He was asked to provide tax/high school/college transcripts to show that he had been resident in the US for at least 5 years after he turned 14. This was a requirement to pass on citizenship to our son.

As far as proving we were the biological parents, I merely provided our sons UK birth certificate which showed both of our names. No relationship proof other than our passports containing the same stamps from working abroad together. At the interview they ask questions to establish your relationship therefore the CO is able to determine whether or not the child is yours I guess.

If you're honest and true then you needn't worry good luck. I found the process very simple.

[Shauneg 762]

It does take 6 months, or longer here for an NSO birth Certificate. You can check their website.

And if you take your LCR Birth Certificate outside the Philippines, it will be accepted by the State Department! Having the NSO is strictly a crazy Manila rule.

For exmple, what if you are going to lose your job if you can't get back to the USA for 6+ months?

And by your logic, no one born in America should be American. Who is there confirming the child is really born on US soil? Who checks if that is the same child from birth through the age they apply for their first passport?

Also, if you agree with the Manila Consulate that this is OK and important, why does no other Consulate have this rule? Why can we apply for a passport anywhere else without the CRBA?

"And by your logic, no one born in America should be American. Who is there confirming the child is really born on US soil? Who checks if that is the same child from birth through the age they apply for their first passport?"

What did I say to make you think I was saying that? I mean exactly the opposite. Birth certificates are proof of where you were born.

I never said I think and agree with Manila.....but the same evidence used to apply for a passport without CRBA is the same things you would use for CRBA...I don't see what the big deal is.

If for some reason you can't meet the requirements get the baby a crba cert. and passport, get a green card and once you land on U.S. soil he/she will become a lpr and a milisecond later become a U.S. citizen under the Child Nationality Act of 2000. You can then apply for a passport without ever doing crba.

[newacct 688]

Under Federal Law, a person born to US Parents is a Natural-Born US Citizen. A Natural Born Citizen is an American that does not need to do anything special to become American.

Except the parents need high school transcripts, college transcripts, tax transcripts, pictures together with the spouse, pictures of the child, maternity transcripts, ultrasounds, correspondance to your spouse, DNA tests, addresses of every place we have ever lived, proof we have a proper married life, and several pages of unduly cumbersome or impossible requirements. They also require a special Birth Certificate that takes at least 6 months to receive. What if you want to leave right now?

What if you were homeschooled? Your kid is not American? Never went to college? Can't have American kids. Disabled and do not pay taxes? Not good enough. Do not send correspondance to your wife, but talk. Who "sends corespondance" to their spouse? We never did maternity check-ups, becasue it's hard, expensive, and really not necessary. Blood pressure and temperature. Big deal. We are not getting an ultrasound done. Why should we? Who cares if I went to high school or what my grades are? Who cares if I am in a proper married relationship with my wife? We could be divorced. Or I could cheat on her every day. What business is it of the US Embassy?

Also, Federal Law states that a CRBA is NOT REQUIRED. One can simply apply for a US Passport. Since they are a Natural-Born American. It even states this on the DS-11.

How can an Embassy make their own rules? How can they invade one's privacy so deeply? How can they make it impossible to get a passport for an American, essentially TRAPPING them in a foreign land?

Are there other embassies in SE and East Asia we can get a passport from? What about a tourists visa? Once in America we can easily apply for a passport. Or even an immigrant visa?

What about Guam? They let in anyone from any nation without a visa. Yet they are American soil. Can't we just fly there with a Filipino child, and then apply for the passport there, as there are no restrictions anymore?

Thank you kind experts!

-Wolfgang, Disapointed with America

I am not sure what you are ranting about.

1. Yes, a person who satisfies the conditions under the law is automatically a US citizen at birth. This is absolutely true and nobody disputes that. However, that does not mean the person doesn't have to prove their citizenship to enter the US. For someone born outside the US, the burden of proof is on them that they met the conditions in the law to have US citizenship at birth. The evidence of parents being in the US for various periods of time is that proof. Not having sufficient proof does not mean you are not a US citizen -- it just means you cannot prove it at this time. Maybe later you will find more evidence and you will be able to prove it.

2. CRBA has nothing to do with it. CRBA is just a convenient document of US citizenship. It is optional and you don't have to get one. Getting a CRBA or not has no effect on the child's US citizenship. A CRBA is not required to get a US passport. A US citizen can apply for a US passport at any time. However, again, you must prove your US citizenship in order to get a US passport. You can prove it by already having a document like CRBA or Certificate of Citizenship, or, you can prove it by presenting the evidence that your parents were in the US for various periods of time that meets the conditions. This is the same proof you need to get a CRBA. The things you need to do to prove citizenship is the same regardless of where you apply (but adjudication of the physical presence requirement is somewhat subjective, so it is possible that different places will adjudicate it differently if the evidence is very close to being sufficient). It is the proof of citizenship you are getting hung up about, not CRBA, and this is the same proof of citizenship that you need to avail yourself of any benefits of US citizenship anywhere. You are saying "Why should I have to present evidence to prove my US citizenship to get a US passport? Why shouldn't they just take my word for it?"

3. It is false that Guam lets anyone in without a visa. Guam has mostly the same visa policy as the US, except for an additional Guam visa waiver program covering people from a few additional countries.

[wolfreich 1]

Is the child's mother a citizen of the Philipines?

Who cares?

She is a citizen of the Philippines, Germany, UK, and Russia.

Why would that matter?

[wolfreich 1]

My fiancé is the USC and we got our son a CRBA/Passport/SSN at the London embassy last November. We are not married yet and it was a simple process. He was asked to provide tax/high school/college transcripts to show that he had been resident in the US for at least 5 years after he turned 14. This was a requirement to pass on citizenship to our son.

As far as proving we were the biological parents, I merely provided our sons UK birth certificate which showed both of our names. No relationship proof other than our passports containing the same stamps from working abroad together. At the interview they ask questions to establish your relationship therefore the CO is able to determine whether or not the child is yours I guess.

If you're honest and true then you needn't worry good luck. I found the process very simple.

My fiancé is the USC and we got our son a CRBA/Passport/SSN at the London embassy last November. We are not married yet and it was a simple process. He was asked to provide tax/high school/college transcripts to show that he had been resident in the US for at least 5 years after he turned 14. This was a requirement to pass on citizenship to our son.

As far as proving we were the biological parents, I merely provided our sons UK birth certificate which showed both of our names. No relationship proof other than our passports containing the same stamps from working abroad together. At the interview they ask questions to establish your relationship therefore the CO is able to determine whether or not the child is yours I guess.

If you're honest and true then you needn't worry good luck. I found the process very simple.

I guess I was just never aware of all the trouble of being born abroad. My whole life I heard "If you are American, your kids are American".

I never knew you had to live in America for 5 years after the age of 14. Is this a brand new law?

BTW- I do not have high school, college, nor taxes. So I guess I don't have "American blood".

So weird...

[wolfreich 1]

I am not sure what you are ranting about.

1. Yes, a person who satisfies the conditions under the law is automatically a US citizen at birth. This is absolutely true and nobody disputes that. However, that does not mean the person doesn't have to prove their citizenship to enter the US. For someone born outside the US, the burden of proof is on them that they met the conditions in the law to have US citizenship at birth. The evidence of parents being in the US for various periods of time is that proof. Not having sufficient proof does not mean you are not a US citizen -- it just means you cannot prove it at this time. Maybe later you will find more evidence and you will be able to prove it.

2. CRBA has nothing to do with it. CRBA is just a convenient document of US citizenship. It is optional and you don't have to get one. Getting a CRBA or not has no effect on the child's US citizenship. A CRBA is not required to get a US passport. A US citizen can apply for a US passport at any time. However, again, you must prove your US citizenship in order to get a US passport. You can prove it by already having a document like CRBA or Certificate of Citizenship, or, you can prove it by presenting the evidence that your parents were in the US for various periods of time that meets the conditions. This is the same proof you need to get a CRBA. The things you need to do to prove citizenship is the same regardless of where you apply (but adjudication of the physical presence requirement is somewhat subjective, so it is possible that different places will adjudicate it differently if the evidence is very close to being sufficient). It is the proof of citizenship you are getting hung up about, not CRBA, and this is the same proof of citizenship that you need to avail yourself of any benefits of US citizenship anywhere. You are saying "Why should I have to present evidence to prove my US citizenship to get a US passport? Why shouldn't they just take my word for it?"

3. It is false that Guam lets anyone in without a visa. Guam has mostly the same visa policy as the US, except for an additional Guam visa waiver program covering people from a few additional countries.

1. Being in the US does not make you a citizen. We have lots of people that are not American there. And I fail to see why there should be a difference in proving you are American if you are born abroad, versus if you are born in America. It's the same process. The baby is pushed out of the mother's #######.

2. CRBA is REQUIRED to get a passport though. See my links. Again, being in the US for certain periods of time does not make you American. The requirements to prove Citizenship are determined by each Embassy, and are therefore very different depending on where one applies. Also, the requirements for the CRBA are not the same as the requirements to get a US Passport. Getting a passport, for example, does not require a $1,000 DNA test. Or the other 100 requirements the CRBA requires. Applying for a passport just requires your foreign birth certificate, and proof your parents are American. I NEVER said "Why should I have to present evidence to prove my US citizenship to get a US passport? Why shouldn't they just take my word for it?" I said "Why do I need high school transcripts, college transcripts, taxes, addresses, bank accounts, DNA samples, photographic evidence of the pregancy, maternity check-up transcripts, sonograms, photos of our child from birth until application, marriage certificate, proof of a proper marriage and faithfulness to my spouse, school IDs" and the other millions of requirements. What don't you people get? You never heard that a child born to an American is an American? Did they change the law recently? Becasue Americans should be OUTRAGED at this!

3.I stand corrected. I was certain that Guam allowed many more nations in. That seems to be incorrect. Unless that has also changed. It was a fw years ago I researched that.

[newacct 688]

1. Being in the US does not make you a citizen. We have lots of people that are not American there.

Nobody ever said being in the US makes you a citizen.

And I fail to see why there should be a difference in proving you are American if you are born abroad, versus if you are born in America. It's the same process. The baby is pushed out of the mother's #######.

It is different because the law has different provisions regarding who has US citizenship at birth when born in the US vs. who has US citizenship at birth when born outside the US. See INA 301(a) (citizenship from birth in the US) vs. INA 301(g) (citizenship from birth outside the US to one US citizen parent and one alien parent) for example.

2. CRBA is REQUIRED to get a passport though. See my links.

CRBA is not required to get a US passport. As a counterexample, CRBA can only be applied for while the child is under 18. So a US citizen from birth, born abroad, who has never gotten a CRBA and is now over 18, is no longer eligible to get a CRBA. Nevertheless, as a US citizen, they are eligible to get a US passport.

It is possible that for children who are under 18 who is claiming to be a citizen from birth, the consulate would consider an application for a passport to be also at the same time an application for a CRBA, since they both require the same adjudication of citizenship from birth.

Again, being in the US for certain periods of time does not make you American.

Again, nobody ever said that being in the US for certain periods makes you American.

Applying for a passport just requires your foreign birth certificate, and proof your parents are American.

False, because just because your parents are American doesn't necessarily mean you are American.

I said "Why do I need high school transcripts, college transcripts, taxes, addresses, bank accounts, DNA samples, photographic evidence of the pregancy, maternity check-up transcripts, sonograms, photos of our child from birth until application, marriage certificate, proof of a proper marriage and faithfulness to my spouse, school IDs" and the other millions of requirements.

High school transcripts, college transcripts, addresses, etc. establish physical presence of the USC parent for the case of one USC parent and one alien parent, or establish US residency for the case of two USC parents.

Evidence of pregnancy and relationship to the spouse establish that plausibility the child is really your biological child. If they are not satisfied with that they can request DNA evidence to establish the blood relationship.

Photographs of the child after birth may be for identity verification purposes.

You never heard that a child born to an American is an American? Did they change the law recently? Becasue Americans should be OUTRAGED at this!

That's right. We never heard it because it is false. It is NOT the case that a child born to an American is necessarily an American. They did not change the law recently -- this has been the case for at least 100 years.

[Shauneg 762]

I told you already get a green card for said baby and once you hit american soil the baby becomes a naturalized citizen and you can get a passport with no crba......

[wolfreich 1]

Nobody ever said being in the US makes you a citizen.

It is different because the law has different provisions regarding who has US citizenship at birth when born in the US vs. who has US citizenship at birth when born outside the US. See INA 301(a) (citizenship from birth in the US) vs. INA 301(g) (citizenship from birth outside the US to one US citizen parent and one alien parent) for example.

CRBA is not required to get a US passport. As a counterexample, CRBA can only be applied for while the child is under 18. So a US citizen from birth, born abroad, who has never gotten a CRBA and is now over 18, is no longer eligible to get a CRBA. Nevertheless, as a US citizen, they are eligible to get a US passport.

It is possible that for children who are under 18 who is claiming to be a citizen from birth, the consulate would consider an application for a passport to be also at the same time an application for a CRBA, since they both require the same adjudication of citizenship from birth.

Again, nobody ever said that being in the US for certain periods makes you American.

False, because just because your parents are American doesn't necessarily mean you are American.

High school transcripts, college transcripts, addresses, etc. establish physical presence of the USC parent for the case of one USC parent and one alien parent, or establish US residency for the case of two USC parents.

Evidence of pregnancy and relationship to the spouse establish that plausibility the child is really your biological child. If they are not satisfied with that they can request DNA evidence to establish the blood relationship.

Photographs of the child after birth may be for identity verification purposes.

That's right. We never heard it because it is false. It is NOT the case that a child born to an American is necessarily an American. They did not change the law recently -- this has been the case for at least 100 years.

You said twice that proving that you were in the US for a certain time makes you American.

As for proof that a child is the the child of an American, again, how does GIVING BIRTH to them not prove that???

And again, who cares about when or where I lived in America or went to school there or how much money I have???

If the CRBA is not required to get a passport, why doe the Embassy think it is? Could you please cal them and correct them for me?

In the case of an adult not needing a CRBA? My baby is not going to be born the age of 18. They will be aged 0. Adults need a Certificate of Citizenship before applying for a passport. This is why I am trying to find other Embassies we can apply to, or other means of entering America.

At this point, we would either go back to America, or just renounce our Citizneship, since it seems to be worth less than dog doo doo. Sadly, we are currently starving and have no food. We could never afford plane tickets home. And the Embassy in Manila is also the only one in the world that does not repatriate it's citizens, but lets them die here...

As for these crazy laws being around for 100 years, I have NEVER met a single American that has ever heard that children born to Americans abroad are not American. Maybe we can apply for assylum in Germany...

Nobody ever said being in the US makes you a citizen.

It is different because the law has different provisions regarding who has US citizenship at birth when born in the US vs. who has US citizenship at birth when born outside the US. See INA 301(a) (citizenship from birth in the US) vs. INA 301(g) (citizenship from birth outside the US to one US citizen parent and one alien parent) for example.

CRBA is not required to get a US passport. As a counterexample, CRBA can only be applied for while the child is under 18. So a US citizen from birth, born abroad, who has never gotten a CRBA and is now over 18, is no longer eligible to get a CRBA. Nevertheless, as a US citizen, they are eligible to get a US passport.

It is possible that for children who are under 18 who is claiming to be a citizen from birth, the consulate would consider an application for a passport to be also at the same time an application for a CRBA, since they both require the same adjudication of citizenship from birth.

Again, nobody ever said that being in the US for certain periods makes you American.

False, because just because your parents are American doesn't necessarily mean you are American.

High school transcripts, college transcripts, addresses, etc. establish physical presence of the USC parent for the case of one USC parent and one alien parent, or establish US residency for the case of two USC parents.

Evidence of pregnancy and relationship to the spouse establish that plausibility the child is really your biological child. If they are not satisfied with that they can request DNA evidence to establish the blood relationship.

Photographs of the child after birth may be for identity verification purposes.

That's right. We never heard it because it is false. It is NOT the case that a child born to an American is necessarily an American. They did not change the law recently -- this has been the case for at least 100 years.

You said twice that proving that you were in the US for a certain time makes you American.

As for proof that a child is the the child of an American, again, how does GIVING BIRTH to them not prove that???

And again, who cares about when or where I lived in America or went to school there or how much money I have???

If the CRBA is not required to get a passport, why doe the Embassy think it is? Could you please cal them and correct them for me?

In the case of an adult not needing a CRBA? My baby is not going to be born the age of 18. They will be aged 0. Adults need a Certificate of Citizenship before applying for a passport. This is why I am trying to find other Embassies we can apply to, or other means of entering America.

At this point, we would either go back to America, or just renounce our Citizneship, since it seems to be worth less than dog doo doo. Sadly, we are currently starving and have no food. We could never afford plane tickets home. And the Embassy in Manila is also the only one in the world that does not repatriate it's citizens, but lets them die here...

As for these crazy laws being around for 100 years, I have NEVER met a single American that has ever heard that children born to Americans abroad are not American. Maybe we can apply for assylum in Germany...

I told you already get a green card for said baby and once you hit american soil the baby becomes a naturalized citizen and you can get a passport with no crba......

Thank you. I will look into this.

Likely less paperwork.

I am still just dumbfounded.

I need someone to put the kettle on, rub my shulder, and go "there, there dear"

[newacct 688]

You said twice that proving that you were in the US for a certain time makes you American.

No I did not. I never said that and I would never said that. However, the periods of time of the USC parent is relevant for whether a child born abroad to one USC parent and one alien parent is a US citizen or not.

As for proof that a child is the the child of an American, again, how does GIVING BIRTH to them not prove that???

It doesn't, because, for the millionth time, A CHILD OF A US CITIZEN IS NOT NECESSARILY A US CITIZEN. Many of them are, but not all. The law is very clear on this and has always been very clear on this. I don't know what crazy stuff you've been reading.

And again, who cares about when or where I lived in America or went to school there or how much money I have???

Nobody cares. In the case where your child is born to one USC parent, you, and one alien parent, you need to prove that you've been physically present in the US for certain lengths of time before the child's birth, because that's the condition that decides whether the child is a US citizen. You can prove that with whatever evidence you like as long as it is sufficient. School records, work records, etc. just happen to be the most convenient forms of proof. If you have some better proof, then that'll work too.

Adults need a Certificate of Citizenship before applying for a passport.

A Certificate of Citizenship is not needed to apply for a passport, as long as you have evidence to prove your citizenship.

As for these crazy laws being around for 100 years, I have NEVER met a single American that has ever heard that children born to Americans abroad are not American. Maybe we can apply for assylum in Germany...

Just goes to show that the people you "met" don't know jack about how US citizenship works. But many Americans don't know (or care), so I am not surprised.

Edited September 27, 2015 by newacct

[Transborderwife 4,666]

You said twice that proving that you were in the US for a certain time makes you American.

As for proof that a child is the the child of an American, again, how does GIVING BIRTH to them not prove that???

And again, who cares about when or where I lived in America or went to school there or how much money I have???

If the CRBA is not required to get a passport, why doe the Embassy think it is? Could you please cal them and correct them for me?

In the case of an adult not needing a CRBA? My baby is not going to be born the age of 18. They will be aged 0. Adults need a Certificate of Citizenship before applying for a passport. This is why I am trying to find other Embassies we can apply to, or other means of entering America.

At this point, we would either go back to America, or just renounce our Citizneship, since it seems to be worth less than dog doo doo. Sadly, we are currently starving and have no food. We could never afford plane tickets home. And the Embassy in Manila is also the only one in the world that does not repatriate it's citizens, but lets them die here...

As for these crazy laws being around for 100 years, I have NEVER met a single American that has ever heard that children born to Americans abroad are not American. Maybe we can apply for assylum in Germany...

You said twice that proving that you were in the US for a certain time makes you American.

As for proof that a child is the the child of an American, again, how does GIVING BIRTH to them not prove that???

And again, who cares about when or where I lived in America or went to school there or how much money I have???

If the CRBA is not required to get a passport, why doe the Embassy think it is? Could you please cal them and correct them for me?

In the case of an adult not needing a CRBA? My baby is not going to be born the age of 18. They will be aged 0. Adults need a Certificate of Citizenship before applying for a passport. This is why I am trying to find other Embassies we can apply to, or other means of entering America.

At this point, we would either go back to America, or just renounce our Citizneship, since it seems to be worth less than dog doo doo. Sadly, we are currently starving and have no food. We could never afford plane tickets home. And the Embassy in Manila is also the only one in the world that does not repatriate it's citizens, but lets them die here...

As for these crazy laws being around for 100 years, I have NEVER met a single American that has ever heard that children born to Americans abroad are not American. Maybe we can apply for assylum in Germany...

Thank you. I will look into this.

Likely less paperwork.

I am still just dumbfounded.

I need someone to put the kettle on, rub my shulder, and go "there, there dear"

If you can't afford food or to fly home how will you afford the green card process?

[Ryan H 3,815]

~~~Closed for review~~~

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Edited September 27, 2015 by Ryan H