Migrant crisis: Pakistanis, others dumping IDs to become 'Syrian'

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Al Qaeda in Iraq formed from existing militants though.

Effectively the current world line we see today started in 1915. It is the cause. The effect was delayed by western powers propping up of dictators that could keep their thumbs on militants whereas a democratic society could not.

I don't think that's very meaningful for understanding the specific actions of our governments in the present day (governments that we vote for) and the cause and effect of the decisions that they have made in our name.

We inherited the world post 1915. We created the world post 2003.

[Sousuke 1,214]

I don't think that's very meaningful for understanding the specific actions of our governments in the present day (governments that we vote for) and the cause and effect of the decisions that they have made in our name.

We inherited the world post 1915. We created the world post 2003.

Yes but along a world line, you have more power to diverge outcomes the closer to the origin of the world line. IE an action taken in the middle east in the 1920s or even prior to 1915 will have a greater effect than later attempts when certain forces have been building for decades.

By the 2000s there would have never been much difference. The same effect would have occurred later, perhaps when Sadam weakened or died.

Effectively, the Arab Spring was destined to occur at some point in the early 2000s....ironically just as the first world war was destined to occur at some point in the early 1900s. Whether a US invasion had occurred, or a Serbian assassin attacked.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Yes but along a world line, you have more power to diverge outcomes the closer to the origin of the world line. IE an action taken in the middle east in the 1920s or even prior to 1915 will have a greater effect than later attempts when certain forces have been building for decades.

By the 2000s there would have never been much difference. The same effect would have occurred later, perhaps when Sadam weakened or died.

Effectively, the Arab Spring was destined to occur at some point in the early 2000s....ironically just as the first world war was destined to occur at some point in the early 1900s. Whether a US invasion had occurred, or a Serbian assassin attacked.

Sure, but without a TARDIS that's not very meaningful is it.

[Sousuke 1,214]

Sure, but without a TARDIS that's not very meaningful is it.

Unfortunately I'm not really in to Doctor Who. I only ever catch the Christmas special because in laws are in town then. I do remember that they used to film the areas near my flat in Cardiff.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

Unfortunately I'm not really in to Doctor Who. I only ever catch the Christmas special because in laws are in town then. I do remember that they used to film the areas near my flat in Cardiff.

Torchwood, maybe?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Torchwood, maybe?

No they filmed Dr who there too. Don't think they do anymore though.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

No they filmed Dr who there too. Don't think they do anymore though.

Oh I know. Just giving Souske a hard time. A fan of both, just caught up with the 8th season. Capaldi is doing ok so far...

[Sousuke 1,214]

Oh I know. Just giving Souske a hard time. A fan of both, just caught up with the 8th season. Capaldi is doing ok so far...

I've caught maybe half an episode? I was really into the IT Crowd when it came out. Too bad its finished.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

The Iraq war created ISIS as we know it today - the organisation started as Al Qaeda in Iraq. Al Qaeda wasn't in Iraq prior to the start of the Iraq war - it followed the coalition.

To be a tad more correct, ISIS began as Jama'at al-Tawhid wal-Jihad (JTJ for short). Its origins can be traced to Jordan back in 1999. Musab al Zarqawi didn't pledge his allegiance to Al Qaeda (via Saddam Hussein) until 2004.

I don't think anyone here is denying your claim that the Iraq insurgency influenced ISIS. Of course it did. Rather, the point being made is that events and people were in place long before that event. And even without it, ISIS would undoubtedly exist today. The same size, with the same leaders? Perhaps not. But certainly, the ideology and impetus behind their drive for power and control would exist today, as it has (under other names and controlling persons) for hundreds of years.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

To be a tad more correct, ISIS began as Jama'at al-Tawhid wal-Jihad (JTJ for short). Its origins can be traced to Jordan back in 1999. Musab al Zarqawi didn't pledge his allegiance to Al Qaeda (via Saddam Hussein) until 2004.

I don't think anyone here is denying your claim that the Iraq insurgency influenced ISIS. Of course it did. Rather, the point being made is that events and people were in place long before that event. And even without it, ISIS would undoubtedly exist today. The same size, with the same leaders? Perhaps not. But certainly, the ideology and impetus behind their drive for power and control would exist today, as it has (under other names and controlling persons) for hundreds of years.

Great, you can use wikipedia. Wonderful

My claim isnt simply that the insurgency influenced ISIS. I'm saying that the Iraq war was the obvious, immediate catalyst and direct catalyst for them becoming what they are today.

That's not a claim BTW, its an undeniable chain of cause and effect events.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

I've caught maybe half an episode? I was really into the IT Crowd when it came out. Too bad its finished.

I've heard of the IT Crowd. I might have to check it out.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I've heard of the IT Crowd. I might have to check it out.

Oh it's great.

As the identities of Coffee Toss Tramp and Small Person Racist are finally revealed, we at Channel 4 news ask: What the Hell is wrong with people?

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

Wikipededia tends to dumb it down for the difficult learners.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Feel free to post your original thesis ?

[JohnR! 5,495]

Much too tall an order...

Feel free to post your original thesis ?