Possible loss of PR status (extended stay abroad) [all still very theoretically]

[stjarna 0]

So, I (PR since 2011, Conditions removed 2014) have been offered a 3-year postdoc position outside of the US (in Iceland). Now my husband (US-citizen) and I are contemplating if I should accept the position and we would move abroad for at least 3 years (with our 2.5y-old daughter, dual citizenship US-German).

Since the position is for 3 years and we wouldn't know if we would return to the US or maybe stay abroad after those 3 years, I'm thinking this will mean loss of PR status (since USCIS may not see enough reasons to grant a re-entry permit for that long of a period?).

Applying for US-citizenship is not an option for me (since my German citizenship will make moving to the postdoc location much much easier). Dual-citizenship is not an option in my case either (I've looked into it.).

My questions are:

1) Does anyone have experience as a PR with extended periods abroad (more than 1-2y)?

2) If we do this, how does the loss of PR status happen? [Do I inform USCIS of our move and it happens automatically?]

3) If we do this, I lose my PR status, and we try to return to the US for a visit with my husband's family (e.g. Christmas), could I run into any problems being denied entry? Or should I be okay as long as I can show that I have a departure date?

4) Any other thoughts, suggestions, concerns you can think of.

Thanks!

[lost_at_sea 995]

You should be able to apply for a reentry permit. They can issue them for up to 2 years, if I recall correctly, and you can apply for a new one before the first expires to cover the extra year.

http://www.familytousa.com/reentry-permit/

[codycody 31]

Apply for Reentry Permit (Form I-131) will be OK for you case.

[jyaku 138]

If you have been married to your US citizen for 3 years already, you can file for naturalization.

Go ahead take the job, just make the trips back and forth for fingerprinting and interview and swearing in.

[Hypnos 6,578]

1) You can apply for a re-entry permit, but this is valid for a maximum of two years only. It is also only for the purpose of remaining overseas temporarily. It sounds as if you will be permanently moving back to Germany, and cutting ties with the US. You also cannot renew a re-entry permit from overseas and must apply from within the US.

2) It will not be automatic but CBP will make an assessment when you attempt to re-enter the US. If you have been overseas for a year without a re-entry permit, or over two years with a re-entry permit, or they suspect you have abandoned your residency they can ask you to voluntarily relinquish your green card. If you refuse, they can refer you to immigration court where an immigration judge would make a formal determination of whether or not you abandoned your LPR status.

3) You may still be eligible to use the VWP after voluntarily surrendering your green card. Or you could take steps to try to maintain your US residency.

4) If you do this there is a better-than-average chance that you will lose your green card if you remain overseas for three years.

Apply for Reentry Permit (Form I-131) will be OK for you case.

Not necessarily. See above.

If you have been married to your US citizen for 3 years already, you can file for naturalization.

Go ahead take the job, just make the trips back and forth for fingerprinting and interview and swearing in.

Poor advice. Germany is one of a handful of countries for which dual citizenship is not straightforward. If a German citizen acquires a non-EU citizenship then there are stringent rules and conditions they must follow in order to be able to keep both. If the German citizen cannot meet these conditions then they will automatically lose their German citizenship upon acquisition of the non-EU citizenship. This is likely what the OP was referring to when she said that dual citizenship isn't an option for her.

Edited September 6, 2015 by Hypnos

[Boiler 46,408]

What are you doing to maintain the US as your permanent residency?

[aaron2020 11,651]

Hi,

The Re-entry permit will not work. Your time outside the U.S. would not be considered in whether you abandoned your LPR status or not. However, you must maintain ties to the U.S., including filing US tax returns. If you fail to maintain ties to the U.S., then might have problems coming to the U.S.

IHMO, it would best for you to surrender the green card, travel to the U.S. using the VWP, and reapply for a green card when you are ready to come back.

Best of luck

Edited September 6, 2015 by aaron2020

[KayDeeCee 4,896]

~ Moved from ROC to Working & Traveling During US Immigration -OP past ROC stage ~

[stjarna 0]

Thank you for all your replies so far.

Hypnos, you description of the German dual-citizen process is absolutely correct. I've actually tried it once and they basically told me that my application to keep my German citizenship would not be successful because my reasons for wanting to get the US citizenship would be too general. So yes, that's why I said that dual-citizenship would not be an option right now.

Where you maybe misunderstood my original post slightly is in the first part of your reply. I have currently no intentions of permanently moving back to Germany and cutting ties with the US. The postdoc will be for 3 years in Iceland. What happens after that is unknown. I would certainly consider moving back to the US, but would also consider moving to Germany, staying in Iceland, or moving somewhere else entirely. It would basically depend on job opportunities (which I can obviously not predict three years in advance). Since my husband's family is in the US, we will certainly always have ties to the US. There is also a chance that we might not sell our house, but maybe try to rent it out (at least for starters). This is all happening so quickly right now, that I'm still very much in the middle of figuring out all the logistics. We still need to look into things like where would we have to file taxes, what about bank accounts, and and and... As I said in my original post: Right now, we are trying to figure out if I should even accept the position or not. It's been four crazy days, and likely 10 more crazy days to come until I have to give Iceland an answer!

The instructions for the reentry permit make it sound like you cannot get it for more than 2 years ("A reentry permit may not be extended"), even though the article in the first reply to my post suggests otherwise. Maybe USCIS changed it? I'm still very skeptical about this possibility.

Maybe returning the GC voluntarily, entering on the VWP for family visits and reapplying for PR in case we move back to the US, would be the best solution. Reentry permit would certainly be cheaper than redoing the entire PR process, but I just don't know if that would really work for 3 years (with not knowing what will happen after 3 years).

Anyone think it would be worth talking to an immigration lawyer about what would make most sense in this possible situation?

1) You can apply for a re-entry permit, but this is valid for a maximum of two years only. It is also only for the purpose of remaining overseas temporarily. It sounds as if you will be permanently moving back to Germany, and cutting ties with the US. You also cannot renew a re-entry permit from overseas and must apply from within the US.

Poor advice. Germany is one of a handful of countries for which dual citizenship is not straightforward. If a German citizen acquires a non-EU citizenship then there are stringent rules and conditions they must follow in order to be able to keep both. If the German citizen cannot meet these conditions then they will automatically lose their German citizenship upon acquisition of the non-EU citizenship. This is likely what the OP was referring to when she said that dual citizenship isn't an option for her.

[Hypnos 6,578]

Thank you for clarifying.

You are right in that a re-entry permit cannot be extended, but you can apply for another one prior to the existing permit's expiration (you would need to return the existing permit along with the new application). You must be in the US when you apply, and you must attend biometrics in the US roughly a month after you apply (depending on your appointment date).

If you think you can supply proof of maintaining your US residency, such as maintaining a US residence (paying rent/mortgage/property taxes, etc.), maintaining a US mailbox, bank account, driving licence, filing federal income taxes, etc. then that may be worth a shot. Since you intend to remain overseas for three years then it's not a guarantee, but I've seen it done.

Alternatively, voluntarily surrendering your green card and re-applying in the future if you wish to resume residence in the US may be the way to go. Certainly a consultation with an experienced immigration attorney may be able to explore which of these is the best move for you, though I doubt there will be much they can do for you on top of that.

Edited September 7, 2015 by Hypnos

[D.Ba 85]

To keep the German citizenship you have to give reasons why losing it would be a disadvantage. Will you inherit? Do you own property? I'm surprised at the reply that the reasons for your US citizenship are too weak.

A friend of mine recently applied for the Beibehaltungsgenehmigung, and it is taking a long time.

[is63 7]

I agree with all hypnos points. But I can add that your job offer overseas is a post-doc and it is a TEMPORARY position. Focus on the three years period and do not think on what follows.

You can get the 2-year permit if you do not want to come back to USA every few months. For the last year either get another permit (from USA) or come every 6 months.

I am a post-doc myself working overseas but also kept some ties with USA like somebody else mentioned in the post (taxes, house, some family members stay in USA).

Good luck

1) You can apply for a re-entry permit, but this is valid for a maximum of two years only. It is also only for the purpose of remaining overseas temporarily. It sounds as if you will be permanently moving back to Germany, and cutting ties with the US. You also cannot renew a re-entry permit from overseas and must apply from within the US.

2) It will not be automatic but CBP will make an assessment when you attempt to re-enter the US. If you have been overseas for a year without a re-entry permit, or over two years with a re-entry permit, or they suspect you have abandoned your residency they can ask you to voluntarily relinquish your green card. If you refuse, they can refer you to immigration court where an immigration judge would make a formal determination of whether or not you abandoned your LPR status.

3) You may still be eligible to use the VWP after voluntarily surrendering your green card. Or you could take steps to try to maintain your US residency.

4) If you do this there is a better-than-average chance that you will lose your green card if you remain overseas for three years.

Not necessarily. See above.

Poor advice. Germany is one of a handful of countries for which dual citizenship is not straightforward. If a German citizen acquires a non-EU citizenship then there are stringent rules and conditions they must follow in order to be able to keep both. If the German citizen cannot meet these conditions then they will automatically lose their German citizenship upon acquisition of the non-EU citizenship. This is likely what the OP was referring to when she said that dual citizenship isn't an option for her.

[mayfield 23]

I have heard of people coming back every six months and so on, to keep themselves within the limits, this may be hard but I think other than giving up your GC and re applying later is the only choice you have. Although people have stayed away for a few years come back without problems, in the event that you would ever want to become a USC then it would certainly become an issue then.

All in all, wish you the best of luck with which ever decision you decide to take...

[Ryan H 3,835]

***One post violating the TOS (advocating fraud) removed along with posts quoting or referencing. Administrative Action taken.***

Edited September 9, 2015 by Ryan H